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Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy and General Discussion » Are Egyptians too passive and boring/annoying to play against?
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Topic Subject:Are Egyptians too passive and boring/annoying to play against?
GUNS_N_ROSES
Mortal
posted 22 December 2002 06:18 PM EDT (US)         
This post has nothing to do with overpowered/underpowered things. However don't you think that Egyptians are somewhat too defensive and generally boring to play against?

In early game they get the free towers that prevent you from doing any serious damage early on. Then in classical they are full of Slingers/Spearmans which is a very annoying army and once they get in Heroic they sit back at their Midgols with some Chariot Archers waiting for you.

And at the time you are attacking they make an Ansector and send you back to allow them make 70 slingers again.

Not only this but massed Slingers seem somewhat strong since with their very fast rate they can wipe any unit really fast, even very strong myth ones. Also with the pathfinding being bad in AOM many anti-slinger units seem to stuck while trying to kill them.

And once they get in Mythic they make those Catapults with really many slingers/chariots nearby making the screen full of arrows and slings.

What I mean is that, Greeks and Norse have some really good armies that require micromanagement and also seem logical. Hippikons with Toxotes from behind, Jarls with Axemans and some Frost Giants. You know what is going on in the battle. With Egypt all units look the same in battle and basicaly the control you have is minor.

Not to mention the Mercenaries that always kill your most important units (siege usually) at the worst times with their huge pierce armor.

Again I don't say that they are weak/strong, just strange and boring to play against. What you think?

AuthorReplies:
DarkKnight_
Mortal
(id: PW_DarkKnight)
posted 22 December 2002 06:20 PM EDT (US)     1 / 25       
Nah. it really depends who you're palying Truthfully, I love when I see my enemy amass slingers...since radiing cavalry and jarls can easily tear them apart. especially later on, even jarls can stand up against Eggy spearmen.

If your Greek, toxotes will work very effectivley against slingers and spearmen.


DK
jwj442
Mortal
posted 22 December 2002 06:30 PM EDT (US)     2 / 25       
Also, you can still raid the Egyptians. Although free towers might make this seem basically impossible, remember that none of their classical units can keep up with hippikons or raiding cav.
hades27
Mortal
posted 22 December 2002 07:23 PM EDT (US)     3 / 25       
errrnn Wrong, Slingers mop the floor with Toxotes

- BITE MY SHINY METAL ASS!!
ESO: IamHades27

Winner of the least favorite forumer AoMH's award 2002!!
INSANE Fanatic
Mortal
posted 22 December 2002 07:31 PM EDT (US)     4 / 25       
I raid them even with the free Towers and I use normal units. Ulfsarks, Hersir, TAs and I wipe out the Egyptians.

What is boring is playing as them. Their Classic can't do didelly squat. Then I wait until Mythic before doing any serious attacks. Mainly defending a forward TC or un-cliamed Settlement.

deadlydentures
Mortal
posted 22 December 2002 07:40 PM EDT (US)     5 / 25       
i agree. Eggies suck in Classic. They can't attack at all. See just how many spearmen it takes to destroy a TC?

They can't do much damage at all in Classic. You have to wait until Herioc for Siege. This is why the fast Herioc is so popular, because its just about all Eggie can do.

They have some great God Powers, but thats about it.


The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference.
The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference.
And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.
Sir Lagalott
Mortal
posted 22 December 2002 07:55 PM EDT (US)     6 / 25       
They can too attack. Maybe you just don't know how? The 3 units are pretty cheap and fast to build. I like to build some of each unless I notice that they are building more [insert unit here], and in that case I build more [insert counter to said unit].

Though I don't like Eggies in general, cause I like Loki's hero summoning :P.



jwj442
Mortal
posted 22 December 2002 08:33 PM EDT (US)     7 / 25       
I don't mind playing against Eggies, but I hate playing as them. Except set. Set's a lot of fun.

[This message has been edited by jwj442 (edited 12-22-2002 @ 08:34 PM).]

Celois
Mortal
posted 22 December 2002 10:42 PM EDT (US)     8 / 25       
Egys have NO real attack unit until later on, only counter units which are pitiful vs buildings. Spearman are actually pretty weak vs hippokons, only reason is their cheap but they still cost 2people like Hoplites and Ulfsarks. Axeman count infantry but a town center can take out a axeman every second (litterly). Slings have pitiful damage output to non-counter infantry and non-archers. 4 peirce semi upgraded! WOO HOO! And pitiful HP/armor. Chariot Archers are only good vs buildings because of the range but are still weak. Camels are alright but low HP. Elephants are the only really good unit against buildings unless you get Seige Towers which are VERY vunerble. Catapults are mythic, if you reach it.

If a egy just makes 70 slingers then you won the game assuming you know what to do.

I don't find playing against Egy's boring, they are battled against differently which is why people whine because they can't adapt at playing against them.

[This message has been edited by Celois (edited 12-22-2002 @ 10:43 PM).]

DarkKnight_
Mortal
(id: PW_DarkKnight)
posted 22 December 2002 10:46 PM EDT (US)     9 / 25       

Quote:

errrnn Wrong, Slingers mop the floor with Toxotes

You get your slingers, Ill get my toxotes and we'll see who wins


DK
eskay
Mortal
posted 22 December 2002 10:52 PM EDT (US)     10 / 25       
Eggies have an advantage to classical raiding in that their units are fast, not to mention easy to replace and keep at it. Sure, there might not be all that much damage done to buildings and such, but it's later on that the Eggy units start to pack their punch: one barracks and quick-training units mean it's easy to be flexible and counter an opponent's armies, and although the egypt units generally can't stand up to their greek or even norse counterparts(who have trouble keeping up in late game, imho), they do have some nice varied myth units and some of the most amusing gps.

And PW_Darkknight, I'll take that. Slingers rock!


Proud Templar of the FPH clan.
DDT_DriverX
Mortal
posted 22 December 2002 11:07 PM EDT (US)     11 / 25       
I enjoy playing as Egypt, i don't find them any more boring than other cultures, but in classical i can't to much other than contain the enemy, mainly because they lack a classical age calvary unit with high pierce armour.

And PW_DarkKnight, i'll take you up on that as well I know from first hand expierence that slingers win that engagement. I played against a hades player that for 90% of the game made nothing other than toxotes, so i made mostly slingers, with some spearmen in reserve in case he was smart enough to change tactics. I beat him in every battle and he only built a few hippokin right when started destorying his town, and by then his army was so pityfully small that my few spearmen combined with all my slingers didn't have much trouble with his few hippokin.

Rusted Petard
Mortal
posted 23 December 2002 01:18 AM EDT (US)     12 / 25       
If toxotes own slingers, then hippikons dominate hoplites, and myth units utterly destroy heroes.

Seriously now, let's stop believing that a unit dominates its counter. All you need to do is play the game to see that slingers own toxotes.

SavvyPlayer
Mortal
posted 23 December 2002 01:24 AM EDT (US)     13 / 25       
Ra is the only Eggy capable of getting through classical without towers and defensive play. The other two are so far behind economically they don't have much choice except to play defensively. Without towers, Isis and Set would never susvive a classical-age rush, and noone would play them.

I don't see why ES went down this path of creating civs with vastly different gathering rates, the need to empower etc. It all just seems so arbitrary, and the main effect has been that few if any of the better players pick Isis or Set, and just about everyone who doesn't play those civs gripes about their towers.

On the one hand it is interesting to have to option of playing different civs differently, on the other, most people just want to start killing enemy villagers asafp.

MythoGod
Mortal
posted 23 December 2002 01:33 AM EDT (US)     14 / 25       
I don't think that the egyptians are boring, but they are quite challenging to successfully pull a rush against though. They do a great job of stalling while gettin a massive economy only to overwhelm you with castle units and siege. I suck with them, and suck against them :/.
Tordenskiold
Mortal
posted 23 December 2002 02:32 AM EDT (US)     15 / 25       

Quote:

Ra is the only Eggy capable of getting through classical without towers and defensive play.

I have to disagree. I mostly play Isis and always try to attack first in classical with a combo of spear/axe/slingers. For some reason this always seems to catch people by surprise and if I manage to maintain them to the homebase, it is pretty much game over

SavvyPlayer
Mortal
posted 23 December 2002 11:06 AM EDT (US)     16 / 25       
Tordenskiold, are you pulling this off vs experienced, non-eggy players? Mathematically what you are saying doesn't make sense, so I'd love to see a recording.
Seqenenre Tao
Guest
posted 23 December 2002 12:00 PM EDT (US)     17 / 25       
He is able to pull it off because most ppl don't expect an Eggie to go offensive in Classical. Surprise attacks can be devastating. Just look at what happened in Pearl Harbor over 60 years ago.

~}Kataastaas, Kagalang-galang ng Katipunan ng mga Anak ng Bayan{~
(The High, Honorable Society of the Sons of the People)
Mabuhay ang Maharlika!

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/wellletsseehere.jpg
hades27
Mortal
posted 23 December 2002 12:03 PM EDT (US)     18 / 25       
Eggies are strong in classical, i can wipe people out so quick and ruin their economy. If they dont resign, ill just advance to Heroic with no problem and get siege towers.

And yes, slingers SLAUGHTER toxotes.

Tao, i dont see the point of bringing, or mentioning old HISTORY into a discussion of gaming.


- BITE MY SHINY METAL ASS!!
ESO: IamHades27

Winner of the least favorite forumer AoMH's award 2002!!

[This message has been edited by hades27 (edited 12-23-2002 @ 12:04 PM).]

Seqenenre Tao
Guest
posted 23 December 2002 12:27 PM EDT (US)     19 / 25       
Egypt basher,

Are you incapable of understanding examples? Im showing a real life example of the effect of a surprise attack to strengthen my point of how the effect of shock/surprise is when you attack an enemy who DID NOT expect you to attack.

Being attacked in place or at a time you did not expect it to occur can have an effect you as it can throw you off balance.

I just used Pearl Harbor as an example since everyone has heard about it. Or would you rather I use an example most people would not know about?


~}Kataastaas, Kagalang-galang ng Katipunan ng mga Anak ng Bayan{~
(The High, Honorable Society of the Sons of the People)
Mabuhay ang Maharlika!

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/wellletsseehere.jpg
SavvyPlayer
Mortal
posted 23 December 2002 03:29 PM EDT (US)     20 / 25       
I still have this nagging feeling that you guys aren't taking on decent competition. Recordings anyone? I only seem to find recordings of Isis and Set losing over at MFO, with the exception of the 'all-merc' game between two Isis players.
chaz
Mortal
posted 23 December 2002 03:39 PM EDT (US)     21 / 25       
hi well this is an interesti topic i think that the eggies can be rather but i've had other games where it could have gone either way just depends on the opponent

AND TOXOTES mop THE floor WITH ... wait isnt this just getting silly just play online and find out!!!!!!

Serops
Mortal
posted 23 December 2002 04:05 PM EDT (US)     22 / 25       
I really wanted to like the Egyptians. I can't remember any other comp game which has addressed Egypt's robust mythology. They were the first civ that I played and while I don't find them boring to play against (dealing with their defenses can be fun), I quickly became bored of playing as the Eyptians. Their myth units seem fairly lackluster to me (though I do like the anubite) compared to the other civs (especially norse) and I hate CAs to no end. I find CAs patently offensive. They may be powerful but the way that they run into each other make them seem more like a mentally imparied fleet of cabbies than an army. Every CA that rolls out of one of my Midgols produces a bit more self-loathing. The only times that I've had fun playing as the Egyptians are when I rushed early with spears/slingers.

I find the Norse strengths and weaknesses to make for a much more exciting game and this is coming from someone who for years was defensive minded player (until Egypt soured me on that style). Of course, there are probably a lot of ppl who enjoy the ascethics and gameplay of the egyptian civ (I wanted to), and that's the way it should be.

[This message has been edited by Serops (edited 12-23-2002 @ 04:18 PM).]

ODB
Mortal
posted 23 December 2002 04:18 PM EDT (US)     23 / 25       
To the one thrashing the Slingers. Please, do you even have the game? You must really suck!
SavvyPlayer
Mortal
posted 23 December 2002 07:30 PM EDT (US)     24 / 25       
Hi Serops: Funny point you make about the chariots. I was thinking something similar the other day watching a group of chariots and axemen trying to path around a corner. Looking at the other two Migdol Stronghold units. Egyptians had no first-hand knowledge of camels until the Islamic conquest of the late 7th century (looong after pagan myths were forgotten), so their inclusion in this game is a blatant false stereotype (why not dress the villagers in turbans while you're at it, ES?). Then there are the riderless elephants in full ceremonial battle dress, which, in groups of 15 look absolutely fabulous teleporting in-and-out of a Roc's tiny container.

Of course none of this means the game is any less fun to play.

Scabies
Mortal
posted 24 December 2002 04:25 AM EDT (US)     25 / 25       
I did a few tests in the editor with 10 slingers vs. 10 toxotes. Slingers keep beating them with 7 slingers alive.
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