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Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy and General Discussion » do you guys think that loki is overpowered in some ways.
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Topic Subject:do you guys think that loki is overpowered in some ways.
redstarz1
Mortal
posted 23 December 2002 02:24 AM EDT (US)         
for some odd reason I always lose to loki players. they always have the advantage over me. (im not a newb either). they always use this combo on me

axemen and throwing axemen in front
mass fire giants in middle
ballista in back

and those log bashers or what ever u call them runnin around breakin your buildings.

it seems very tough for me because there units could build which makes them produce mass shiet so fast. im sick of it. I play zeus by the way. I could hang for awhile but towards the end I usually lose once they get a bunch of temples in my base and start massin to many fire giants.

plz post any tips for me to beat an exellent loki player.
I play deathmatch with zeus by the way.

[This message has been edited by redstarz1 (edited 12-23-2002 @ 02:29 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
Drench19
Mortal
posted 23 December 2002 03:26 AM EDT (US)     1 / 16       
I think loki certainly has more options to him than any other god.

I think hel is overpowered as a god choice. As if the nidhogg was'nt a devistating GP as it is but she also gives him all three GIANTS and more bonus's. Does anyone actually ever pick tyr with loki. And theres very little reason to pick the other two norse gods unless your rushing.

Thrown in the fact that heroes summon myth units on there own. Myth units cost less favor. And i don't think to many people will argue that loki is a beast. At least he does'nt get skadi. Can you imagine loki with frost, my goodness.

But if your going against loki use zeus. That will t least help you with the nidhogg. And medusas will help you deal with tha mass giants that loki players tend have around them. just remember to micro your medusas and don't let them use there stone power on human targets thats a waste.

I can't help you with the mass ballistas thats just an imbalance in the game. There very little you can do to counter those. Hippokins, but mass ta's plus fire giants plus ballistas will chew just about anything you throw at them. And forget about infantry in this situation. The best thing you can do is use lightming storm just as the fight is beginning and go right after the ballistas. Have your medusas go after the giants. And hope for the best. But even if you wipe out his armie he;s guaranteed to have plenty of long house to replenish just as fast as he lost them.

[This message has been edited by Drench19 (edited 12-23-2002 @ 03:35 AM).]

redstarz1
Mortal
posted 23 December 2002 03:34 AM EDT (US)     2 / 16       
I just lost again on a 1v1 dm rated game again against a loki player. Im sick of this , I Dont care what anyone says. loki is overpowered big time. I use all the rite units against him. nothin could beat mass fire giants along with some axemen , throwing axemen, and ballista in back, and those badering rams runnin around. this is b.s he builds way to fast because there units could just fight and build rite inside your base and theres not a damn thing u can really do about it. I usually build heros to try to take the fire giants out and it works a little until the point where he has way to many. the loading time to build those fire giants is like 2 sec. thats to fast in my opinion. especially if his temple is rite next to my base.
Zaknafien
Mortal
posted 23 December 2002 03:47 AM EDT (US)     3 / 16       
Well, the building gets bad when they have a huge army, but you can also use it your advantage. As a norse player, I can say that if you lose your army and they siege part of your base its hard getting units to rebuild your losses in troop making buildings with only a couple guys. So if you kill their army and forward base, for example, they can have all the res they want but if they cant get the buildings up theyre in trouble. This is even more true when the opponent builds thing that counter inf, which makes you pick between making more buildings and making guys thatll kill the enemy.

BTW those axemen are ulfsarks, right?

Syndicate123
Mortal
posted 23 December 2002 03:49 AM EDT (US)     4 / 16       
Big suprise, you were playing a DM game. Whats the point of getting mythic three minutes in then wondering why you were overwhelmed?
redstarz1
Mortal
posted 23 December 2002 04:11 AM EDT (US)     5 / 16       
well are there any pro zeus players that could give me some tips on how to beat a loki player in dm. usually my strat is infantry , then tox, then mass collosus, and some siege , then I start walkin towards there base. anyone gota better way to beat them early game? im not worried about there niddhog because I just zap it with lighting bolt.
Drench19
Mortal
posted 23 December 2002 04:48 AM EDT (US)     6 / 16       
LIke i said medusas counter the giants just fine hell medusa devistate giants and most every other part of his armies, Bolt owns nidhogg. The only thing you have to worry about countering are hersirs(heroes). Cause they will tare your medusas up. I usually have 5-6 medusas in my armie two manticores. And the bulk of my armie i go anti Infantry. Tons of Toxates and hypaspyst (infantry counters). As long as you can keep his hersirs off your medusas they can wipe the floor with the rest of his armie by themselves.

The only problem is the mass ballistas. This wher it gets tough because. Both toxates and infantry units get owened badly by mass ballistas and if you throw hippkins in there wich you will need there speed to counter the ballistas they will get owned even worse by the combo of ballistas and Throwing axeman. Not to mention just general norse infantry.

So like i said you best shot is to save lightning storm and use it wisely.

Also norse armie depend on there longhouse's so as a general rule. All ways have seige with you and make sure your taking out his long house as your fighting even if you have to do it with toxotes. norse player almost always forward build and leav very little between ther forward base and there TC. So once you take out there forward base even if your hurting march on to there main base With what little you have. Forward build yourself if you have to. And finish him before he has a chance to rebuild.

Oh and dont forget cease fire to many player mistakenly use this as a defensive GP. I find That it better serves as an offensive GP. Especially against norse in DM. As soon as you get your first castle pump out a ton of seige. Than hit ceasefire and park your seige next to the norse player longhouse's and buildings. You won't have to go very far since like i said they always come to you. As soon as ceasefire end you'll obliterate his forward base as he destroys you seige and pop slots open up you pump out what ever unit you need to counter him> By the time its over you should have a well balance armie ready to march on to his base with nothing inbetween to stop you.

[This message has been edited by Drench19 (edited 12-23-2002 @ 04:58 AM).]

MattTheGreat_II
Mortal
posted 23 December 2002 08:37 AM EDT (US)     7 / 16       
I am pure loki.

Hel is not overpowered. It's focus is ON myth units. YOU ARE GOING TO GET GOOD MYTH UNITS!
I do not remember what tyr gets as a focus (I always go Hel ) but I'm sure it evens out.

Nidhogg is not that tough. He is in fact easier to kill than SoO. He has no range and has to fly right up. He deals splash damage but not very much of it.
Well usually when I get to age 4 he dies a lot of the time, even though he wins me the game before it sometimes.

3 giants...is dumb. When you can make fire giants who is gonna make mountain and frost giants? Frost giants MAYBE if your guy is making Colossus and you wanna freeze and kill........Mountain giants are too expensive for what they do.


Matt the Great II
My n00bish little underscore will kill you!
Member of the LTR Clan
Jamesthetiger
Mortal
posted 23 December 2002 08:40 AM EDT (US)     8 / 16       
Both my wife and I play Loki almost exclusively and I can tell you if any civ lets Norse of any kind build more than about 4 fire giants, you are in a world of hurt.

We played 1 game (vs hard computer, 2 vs 4) where I had 40 hersirs and 21 fire giants. I didn't bother with anything else.

Don't allow Norse to gain favor, kill them a you see them. Mant times I have watched my lone ulfsarks walk through a throng (10 ormore) enemy laborers without a scratch. Kill him and my scouting goes away, I can't gain favor with him through battle and there goes a builder too.

James

smatter2
Mortal
posted 23 December 2002 08:44 AM EDT (US)     9 / 16       
I always play Loki too (once you go norse you can never go back) and of course the myth units are gonna be good. I just wanted to point out that Hel isn't always used by me, sometimes I go for Tyr and then launch my attack with the Fimbulwinter, if you nhang around to fight, you get slaughtered, if you get garrisoned, I go insane on your camp. Also, Norse economy always weak, and if you flank for the forward base, you can take it out cause I usually put it all into my rush.

somewhere a clock is ticking
jwj442
Mortal
posted 23 December 2002 10:55 AM EDT (US)     10 / 16       
I sometimes choose Tyr in RM against a hero heavy opponent or a Zeus player.
INSANE Fanatic
Mortal
posted 23 December 2002 11:26 AM EDT (US)     11 / 16       
I don't like Hel. Think, Fire Giants are heck expensive. You can already get mass from mass Hersir. I only like her for Rampage and Frosties. The Mountain Giants are ok. But Norse have the best siege in the game already(Huskarl with Bravery and PRs, Mountain Giants are to expensive). And Tyr comes in handy(little Jermies wipe the floor with anybody's navy). And Huskarls with Bravery are the best non-siege siege.

You are Zeus? Yes. Where are those Bellerophon, Heracles, Odyseus and Jason, Medusas and Hydras. Say good by to that army with that little army. Colossi would wipe the floor as well. Two or three Prodomosi will take out the Ballisti.

Or don't let him reach Mythic is the more obvious solution. By not playing on RM. Which removes half the game 'cause you don't need an economy

[This message has been edited by INSANE Fanatic (edited 12-23-2002 @ 11:35 AM).]

merper
Mortal
posted 23 December 2002 11:37 AM EDT (US)     12 / 16       
IMO, deathmatch isn't a real game type. It's like a Use Map Settings in WC and SC. Imbalance should only come into play when playing the regular game. IF the producers want to make special rules for DM that's fine, but they should concentrate more on the regular game.

You only live once; Why waste it sleeping?
redstarz1
Mortal
posted 23 December 2002 03:08 PM EDT (US)     13 / 16       
MERPER dm is probably the best mode, when you play supremacy alot of times you dont even get to see the full game because of dying to early. anyways who wants to play a long game of killin animals in the begining (thats boring) thats an old persons type of game. dm is for people who want to go to war and for people that can think quick . not kick back take your time to think and kill a few animals, watch them mine gold for the longes time, i mean , how is that fun? it takes way to long

Gettin to the point though, I was talkin to this one guy that I played who is an exellent loki player, and I asked him how to counter his axemen , throwing axemen , mass fire giant , ballista combo and he just typed , lol, "you cant" or I havent seen anyone counter it yet . he said its almost impossible to micro your units to get to the back where the ballista's are unless your comin from the sides. which I find true because the second I try to send some infantry around to get to the back those giants or throwin axemen just own me. I cant use the archers either because I need them to focus on killin the throwin axemen. so whats left? I think thats basically it there is no counter unless your playin a team match and somebody helps you. but other than that , as for a 1v1 dm loki owns everyone in my opinion

[This message has been edited by redstarz1 (edited 12-23-2002 @ 03:27 PM).]

Drench19
Mortal
posted 23 December 2002 03:23 PM EDT (US)     14 / 16       
I agree red DM really is the only way to play aom for me anymore. I am having the most tactical strategic matchs i have had in any RTS since i started DM.
Its a whole diffrent world when everybodys on the same economic playing field.

The game gets decided by who the best general on the battlefield is. The action is fast and furious. And you have to use your head changing strats on the go. No single strat will win you anthing.

Anyway man im telling you medusas will eat those GIants up. Just got to eep the hersirs off of them.

CC_Straight_Og
Mortal
posted 23 December 2002 03:50 PM EDT (US)     15 / 16       
redstarz1,

One thing to remember is that the game was balanced for Supremacy, so there may well be imbalances in DM. I doubt ES would fix them if the changes would hurt other game types.

It's cool to see people who like other game types, but you have to remember that DM is much less popular than Supremacy. Most people who play RTS games like the strategy part of the game and much of that is lost in DM. Still, it's a fun game mode if you want to see all the end-game units or you're not a very strategic player.

Zasten
Mortal
posted 23 December 2002 04:08 PM EDT (US)     16 / 16       
Redstarz1 says about supremacy: "(thats boring) thats an old persons type of game"

LOL!

I'll counter that with:
"DM is for punks who can only be entertained by things that go 'boom' and have no sense of strategy or subtlety"

Anyway, as others have mentioned ES balances the game to RM/Supremacy. As we all know some civs are stronger than others in the different ages (haven't all "age" games been this way). Norse is a superpower in mythic. Don't let em get that far and you'll have fewer troubles.

Zasten
Norse since day one.

[This message has been edited by Zasten (edited 12-23-2002 @ 04:58 PM).]

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