You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Strategy and General Discussion
Moderated by Yeebaagooon, TAG

Hop to:    
Welcome! You are not logged in. Please Login or Register.10 replies
Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy and General Discussion » Hunting (Non-aggressive animals) and Shift Clicking
Bottom
Topic Subject:Hunting (Non-aggressive animals) and Shift Clicking
deano3985
Mortal
posted 18 August 2003 07:31 PM EDT (US)         
Now today I was very bored so I thought I'd run some tests on Hunting Dogs and Husbandry. I really never accomplished anything however I did find something out. This is probably already known as I'm sure of but you can shift click huntables, I should hope you know that . This is mostly done on Aggressive animals to cut down microing. However, I notice that this is not common at all with Deer Zebra etc. What I found out though is that by having all your villagers gathering one animal at a time actually saves a great deal of food. To prove this I ran I simple test.

The test was done on the editor using 4 Granaries, each with 6 villagers (w/ hunting dogs) and 6 Deer for a total of 900 food that could theorectically be gathered (150 per Deer.)

Group 1: 1 villager tasked to 1 deer yielded 661 Food out of 900 Food

Group 2: 2 villagers tasked to 2 deers as a group (2 vills were selected and shift clicked 2 deer.) yielded 757 Food out of 900.

Group 3: 3 villagers tasked to 3 deers as a group yielded 804 Food.

Group 4: All 6 villagers tasked to gather from each deer 1 at a time yielded 842 Food

Now I'll let you draw your own conclusion from my Thesis but let me just leave you with a side note. Most people, mainly Egyptians and Greeks, just let their villagers gather on their own. Now if by holding the shift and doing a few clicks would get me around a 150 Food bonus I think I would find it worth while, but that's just me. So if the early game, try to keep your villagers hunting animals at minimum numbers, by this I mean only killing 1-2 deer at a time, because it could be the difference between getting to advance 10 seconds faster, or getting that mining or wood cutting upgrade.

Does anyone else actually do this because I never really noticed anyone who does, nor did I ever notice how much food you can lose through decay.

Hope this was of some help. Have A Nice Day!!!

AuthorReplies:
Zont
Mortal
posted 18 August 2003 07:37 PM EDT (US)     1 / 10       
Normally not because animals move, and it takes time.

If you shift click a deer that is next to food drop off point now, whats to say it hasnt walked behind some trees or a fair distance off when your vills get to it.
Even though its only a few seconds of micro, its not worth it.

Generally hope that vills work on 1/2 anmials together and then they finish that animal at same time, and all target the next closest vills automatically, which happens most of the time (sometimes 1/ 2 vills might target a different animal but its no biggie).

MR2 Pilot
Mortal
posted 18 August 2003 08:59 PM EDT (US)     2 / 10       
As Zont pointed out, it can be problematical on deer or such, but it works well on aggressive animals or herd animals. I once found a string of my vils walking half way across the map because someone used Lure and my vils decided to follow the herd. lol
-

FAILURE is not an option, it comes bundled with the software.
The graduate with a science degree asks, "Why does it work ?"
The graduate with an engineering degree asks, "How does it work ?"
The graduate with an accounting degree asks, "How much will it cost ?"
The graduate with an arts degree asks, "Do you want fries with that ?"
Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.
deano3985
Mortal
posted 18 August 2003 09:04 PM EDT (US)     3 / 10       
well in most cases deer etc. aren't always that close to a forest and the likely hood of that happening aren't outrageously huge. As for aggressive animals I usually don't find people that hunt from 2 rhinos simultaneously, as it takes too long to kill on, especially if you are like me and try to kill a rhino with 2 villagers lol.
mudhutter1
Mortal
posted 18 August 2003 11:20 PM EDT (US)     4 / 10       
Was there a time saving though? This would be good on low food maps, where you are struggling get to classic and farm, but I think that workers gather faster when you don't have a bunch tasked to a single deer.

I've observed a few seconds of idle time on all the workers between task, seems to me that this would add up after six deer or larger.

The time loss is no big deal if you are switching between boars and hippos where they will gather food for a long time, but would you recommend shift clicking on turkeys and monkeys to gain an extra 150 food.

I have also noticed that drifting of animals away from the drop sites while hunting, and if you are unlucky you might get stuck going after the farthest beast in the pack and lose efficiency.

Part of the function of allowing hunters to pick their own targets is to have them kill the closest beast to the grainary after they strip carcas of their most current prey clean.

It seems that I would be better served by the AI here, but then if I allow the group to idle after the herd is exhusted I would lose the efficiency gained completely.

I usually queue the last couple dear with my group and have them build a mining/lumber camp nearby or move to another heard, but that's just me.

Dealer
Mortal
posted 19 August 2003 02:40 AM EDT (US)     5 / 10       
The most important thing is how fast the villies gather the food. The differences in the total amount gathered from a herd are not nearly as important.
NIB
Mortal
posted 19 August 2003 03:53 AM EDT (US)     6 / 10       
I didnt really understand the test(its too early for me to think) but let me say some things.

1. Microing is a resource. Unessecary microing decreases your concetration thus you perform worse after some time.
2. The villagers will auto hunt non agressive animals automatically why would you want to use shift click?
3. If you use shift click then your villagers will have tons of idle time when an animal is depleted. This is cause they will wait till every villager has dropped his food before they start gathering food from the next animal.
4. If you gather food from multiple animals at a time, even though it can reduce bumping, it increases the ammount of lost food cause food is slowly reduced once an animal i dead. By having more villagers on 1 animal, that animal's food is depleted faster thus you have less food lost to decay.

For some strange reason i think this is a stupid experiment. You compare the food that 1 villager gathered with the food that 6 villagers can gather? Obviously 1 villager can gather less food since he loses more food to decay cause he doesnt gather food fast enough. But then again its too early for me to think so i might have misunderstood the experiment.


ESO name : Relaxing

Eisai ellinas? Tote ela sto www.noobwars.gr.

Mojo14
Mortal
posted 19 August 2003 04:02 AM EDT (US)     7 / 10       
lol @ NIB, I think that's exactly what his "experiment" was .

/-Mojo14-\
You go to the editor
But you neva design nuttin'
You been designing a long time
And you ain't got nuttin'
Xenophanes
Mortal
posted 19 August 2003 05:13 AM EDT (US)     8 / 10       
I find the test very interesting (thx deano), allthought I'm having trouble coming up with a clear conclusion.

I use Shift-click when I have micro-time to spare because I think it's better but I'm not sure. It's just a gut feeling that might be wrong.

One argument already mentioned and that is very true:
- shift-click leads to idle villie time, when moving from one target to the next.

But I would like to add that saving food from decay by shiftclicking leads to delaying idle villie-time when walking to the next food source. Also the kill is faster. If 6 villies all try to kill their own individual monkey it will take some shots and the monkeys are more spread out after that, increasing walking time.

Xenophanes
Mortal
posted 19 August 2003 07:22 AM EDT (US)     9 / 10       
Did a test too, to find out more. Used 7 greek hunters to hunt 3 packs of 6 deer building 1 granary for each pack. So build-time for granaries included, unit training time excluded. No upgrades.

Results are interesting, I think, and they prove me wrong, too ;-). Shiftclicking to optimize food decay is not advisable.

Without shiftclicking:
Total food gathered - 2.402 in 10.35 minutes
(BTW, often 4 or 5 of them decided to hunt the same animal)

With "normal" shiftclicking (all villies on same task all the time):
Total food gathered - 2.516 in 12.57
But more important, they gathered just 2066 in 10.35, which is considerably lower!!
The main reasons being bumping and shooting every animal 7 times which is overkill.

With very intensive micromanagement:
(I created 2 groups of 2 and 1 group of 3, and used shiftclick to optimize tasks.)
Total food gathered - 2.304 in 8.57
For comparison, without shiftclicking the villies gathered 2050 in 9 minutes. And with normal shiftclicking they gathered 1787 in 9 minutes. Again significant boost to gather rates.

My conclusion is that shiftclicking your entire group of hunters to every individual animal is not the way to go since effective gatherrates are lowered bigtime.
But if you have microtime to spare it can pay off to really do some intense micro on your huntingparty.


[This message has been edited by Xenophanes (edited 08-19-2003 @ 07:24 AM).]

deano3985
Mortal
posted 19 August 2003 10:14 AM EDT (US)     10 / 10       
Yes I found that out. Don't shift click. Just go mmicro heavy and try to keep them on one deer.
You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Hop to:    

Age of Mythology Heaven | HeavenGames