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Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy and General Discussion » The Trebuchet
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Topic Subject:The Trebuchet
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Clarissimus
Mortal
posted 13 October 2001 07:17 PM EDT (US)         
In AoK, castles were almost invincible. You could send a few rams or a mass of infantry, but if your enemy had it well defended the castle's arrows would easily decide the battle.

The only thing that kept AoK from becoming trench warfare was the trebuchet, a unit that outranged everything and took down buildings more quickly than anything. To balance the game, they made trebs very expensive and added that whole pack/unpack thing.

So here's my question: what will be the "trebuchet" of AoM, the unit that force players out of their entrenched positions? Will it be the god powers? What will the Egyptians do if their hero dies?

AuthorReplies:
deadlydentures
Mortal
posted 13 October 2001 07:24 PM EDT (US)     1 / 35       
First off, here are a couple threads
Here
And Here

Catapult maybe?
I really liked Trebs too,


The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference.
The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference.
And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.
mikey
Mortal
posted 13 October 2001 08:18 PM EDT (US)     2 / 35       
Most likely we'll see god powers take the place of trebs I reckon.

The first casualty in war is the truth.

Alcohol is the cause and solution of all lifes problems. - Homer Simpson

History is always written by the victors

ArrangedEarth
Mortal
posted 13 October 2001 08:27 PM EDT (US)     3 / 35       
That makes sense...

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IV1066
Mortal
posted 13 October 2001 08:43 PM EDT (US)     4 / 35       
I think a scaling down of castle firepower and range (unless garrisoned or special like Teuts) and having no trebs (something like a bombard would be ok) is preferable to having a trebs. And I don't see god-powers as a suitable replacement (if indeed a replacement is necessary). ES says there will be 4-5 big god-powers used in a game... if you build 3 castles in a game that need to come down that means that there will be 1-2 god-powers used against armies in the average game... which doesn't sound right at all. Some sort of conventional siege would be needed, prolly some sort of big, slow catapult.
ArrangedEarth
Mortal
posted 13 October 2001 08:53 PM EDT (US)     5 / 35       
I used to use just siege all the time witl the Mongals (siege meaning siege workshop siege) and it would slaughter and everyone I did this to, thought I was cheating because I was useing like 5 rams to take down his castle clump, so I don't think not having actual trebs is a bad idea. All they have to do is tweak the battering rams alittle, put them in AoM and your good. Plus you have god powers.

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Clarissimus
Mortal
posted 13 October 2001 09:00 PM EDT (US)     6 / 35       
I still think they should greatly increase the range of the catapults. Maybe they can decrease their accuracy to make up for it.
deadlydentures
Mortal
posted 13 October 2001 09:25 PM EDT (US)     7 / 35       
I think the following should be added
These quotes where taken from sidgu in a past thread long ago
Quote:
Now as the Wall-Gates and Siege balance stands in AOK, one can easily get so defensive that no matter come what may, u can totaly wall your civ. I wont even mention the USELESSNESS of every non-siege unit against the fortefied walls, the only purpose they fulfill are to irritate the opponent with the continous "PO PO!"(Warning Siren).

Quote:
But WHATS THE POINT in making the defence further strong!!!??? There arent going to be mega-powerful siege attacks in AOM u know...

Sidgu makes good points.


The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference.
The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference.
And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.
ArrangedEarth
Mortal
posted 13 October 2001 09:46 PM EDT (US)     8 / 35       
and the point in bringing that up was?

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alLan Mandragoran
Mortal
posted 13 October 2001 10:26 PM EDT (US)     9 / 35       
bombard? wth man, and waht would it be that is LIKE a bombard? lol ok sorry. rams are good enogh for me, they are the second best seige unit already! i mean bbtowers, castels, walls everything falls to them if you can protect them from horses!
TheShadowDawn
Mortal
posted 13 October 2001 10:50 PM EDT (US)     10 / 35       
I get the impression that in their quest to reduce game time and turtling and increase all the good stuff...ES are going to depower defenses. So we won't have as great a need for a super unit in that case, yes?

TheShdwDwn
If you're like me, then it's possible you're a clone generated from my stolen DNA. I suggest you turn yourself in for destruction immediately.
Clarissimus
Mortal
posted 14 October 2001 00:07 AM EDT (US)     11 / 35       
But you see, you still have to protect rams from the horses! If you send in your own troops to protect the rams they are vulnerable to castle fire.
There really needs to be a unit in AoM that outranges the stronghold. Otherwise it is a defensive game.
ArrangedEarth
Mortal
posted 14 October 2001 00:08 AM EDT (US)     12 / 35       
It's do-able...

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IV1066
Mortal
posted 14 October 2001 00:12 AM EDT (US)     13 / 35       
Quote:
But you see, you still have to protect rams from the horses! If you send in your own troops to protect the rams they are vulnerable to castle fire.

But if you make the fortress (isn't that what they're calling it in AoM?) have fewer arrows then you could defend the ram with your pikes... or the rams will be garrisonable like in AoK, and you can always use archers to support the pikes, etc... etc... I don't like having overwhelming defense but I dislike the ease with which trebs destroy castles. It's more fun to have shorter ranged siege fighting weaker fortresses where you can attack with units and not have most of them killed, imo.

TheShadowDawn
Mortal
posted 14 October 2001 00:52 AM EDT (US)     14 / 35       
We haven't seen any hints of fortresses or castles in AoM. Only normal towers and TC's and walls. ES have also mentioned - as I said - in a few places they are trying to depower defense so as to get game times down so you can fit more games in.

TheShdwDwn
If you're like me, then it's possible you're a clone generated from my stolen DNA. I suggest you turn yourself in for destruction immediately.
ArrangedEarth
Mortal
posted 14 October 2001 12:19 PM EDT (US)     15 / 35       
Greek Fortress

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Imperial Wizard
Mortal
posted 14 October 2001 03:11 PM EDT (US)     16 / 35       
Did ancient fortresses have murder holes?

If they did, then ES could bring back the Stone Thrower line from AoE to fill the Treb's niche. If a fortress had 11 range, then the worst stone thrower in the game would have 12.


Not all old men in ragged coats are bad old men; some are bone-and-bottle men, and have little dogs of their own, some are gardeners, and a few, a very few, are wizards prowling around on a holiday looking for something to do.
ArrangedEarth
Mortal
posted 14 October 2001 03:17 PM EDT (US)     17 / 35       
Stone Throwers where also super strong in AoE. In the last age, you could make nothing but them and be able to slaughter.
So...you would have to make catapults weak against regular units and strong against buildings, kinda like rams in AoK.

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DarkFlame
Mortal
posted 14 October 2001 03:30 PM EDT (US)     18 / 35       
I just killed off King Alfonsos castle within 20 seconds with only 4 rams with 2 garrisones each (El Cid Campaign, AoC). If you tweak the rams/catapults a little, and make the castles a little weaker, everything's ok.

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ArrangedEarth
Mortal
posted 14 October 2001 03:44 PM EDT (US)     19 / 35       
see

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martin
Mortal
posted 14 October 2001 03:52 PM EDT (US)     20 / 35       
Who comes up with this topics...

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Now I just troll boards. ^_^
Matei
Mortal
posted 14 October 2001 04:13 PM EDT (US)     21 / 35       
I think a properly placed meteorite will do just as good.

Programmer on 0 A.D., author of Norse Wars, co-author of Fort Wars.
deadlydentures
Mortal
posted 14 October 2001 04:50 PM EDT (US)     22 / 35       
In AOM, it was Helipoliss all the way

The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference.
The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference.
And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.
ArrangedEarth
Mortal
posted 14 October 2001 04:57 PM EDT (US)     23 / 35       
huh?

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SoR_Anarchy
Mortal
posted 14 October 2001 05:14 PM EDT (US)     24 / 35       
Just balance it so catapults have the necessary range to take out a fortress.

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Kaziglu Bey
Mortal
posted 15 October 2001 09:51 PM EDT (US)     25 / 35       
After playing AoK for countless hours I find ranged siege all the more boring and lazy. I would prefer some real incentive to make good use of rams and scaling engines, even late in a game.
deadlydentures
Mortal
posted 15 October 2001 10:08 PM EDT (US)     26 / 35       
boooo,
i don't like rams!
Go trebs, go Onagers, go FLYING PURPLE HIPPOS!!

The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference.
The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference.
And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.
TheShadowDawn
Mortal
posted 16 October 2001 05:06 AM EDT (US)     27 / 35       
Ummm...

I don't care what the AoMH speculation from three months ago says...chances are that is NOT a fortress. That's a temple, my friends.


TheShdwDwn
If you're like me, then it's possible you're a clone generated from my stolen DNA. I suggest you turn yourself in for destruction immediately.

[This message has been edited by TheShadowDawn (edited 10-16-2001 @ 05:09 AM).]

Last_Knight
Mortal
posted 16 October 2001 05:08 AM EDT (US)     28 / 35       
Looks more like fortress


The Last Knight
Grasshoppers are cheap, nutritious, tasety,Kosher and easy to dissect
TheShadowDawn
Mortal
posted 16 October 2001 05:11 AM EDT (US)     29 / 35       
A fortress would be characterised perhaps by a distinctly...fortified appearance, yes?

We know about the focus in AOM on Mythology. The Temple will become a focal building, it's probably where we cash in favour for MU's. That's a big game element, I'd expect.

On the hand, AoM is in entirely the wrong period for advanced and complex fortifications like Castles and Fortresses, they don't fit the theme.

And like I said, it doesn't look like a fortress to me, in fact the screenshot it appeared in set it in idyllic gardens, much like one might expect around a temple.


TheShdwDwn
If you're like me, then it's possible you're a clone generated from my stolen DNA. I suggest you turn yourself in for destruction immediately.
Last_Knight
Mortal
posted 16 October 2001 05:18 AM EDT (US)     30 / 35       
I dunno... it looks like a pretty massive structure, too massive for a temple (no vulnerable columns touching the ground, but stone walls instead).


The Last Knight
Grasshoppers are cheap, nutritious, tasety,Kosher and easy to dissect
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