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Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy and General Discussion » Another reason Atlantean villie<Others...?
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Topic Subject:Another reason Atlantean villie<Others...?
shminkledorf
Mortal
posted 04 April 2004 03:06 PM EDT (US)         
I've been thinking about comparison between Atlantean villies and the others. Think. Your gold mine gets hit by a raid, and as attie, you lose one villager. That is the equivalent of 3 villies, right?

Same scenario. They attack, and you lose 1-2 villies. Why would this be different? Everyone know attie villies are slower, but if you lose one villager as Atlantean, you AUTOMATICALLY will lose those 3 villies.
Again: Beginning of the game, atlantean player begins to build villagers. The first one (after starting one) comes out, but at that time, the other non atlantean player has that same villie, but the others had been gathering BEFORE the other had come out...

Hope that was generally coherent, might not be fully true, but it's just a thought...


Wanna hear someone smart talking? Well, you're at the wronger poster...
AuthorReplies:
x_Scarface_x
Mortal
posted 04 April 2004 03:13 PM EDT (US)     1 / 26       
I might be slow, but i really dont understand what your trying to say. We all know atlantean villies are like or near comparrison to 3 regular villies but I still dont understand.

~*S c a r f a c E*~
Pug
Mortal
posted 04 April 2004 03:38 PM EDT (US)     2 / 26       
they make up for it with zero walk time to drop resources.

R.I.P Shiva
Mickey T
Mortal
posted 04 April 2004 03:48 PM EDT (US)     3 / 26       
and much higher HP

In a race between a rock and a pig,
don't varnish your clams.
Jk_Beast
Mortal
posted 04 April 2004 03:54 PM EDT (US)     4 / 26       
Still though, even without dropsites, if you trap 4 atlantean villagers with raiders, it is like killing 12 villagers which is crucial.

Proud member of the www.Jaggedknights.com clan
Pug
Mortal
posted 04 April 2004 03:55 PM EDT (US)     5 / 26       
unless your already losing badly its very rare that a raid will result in losing all vills/citizens at a resource site.

R.I.P Shiva
Etendorf
Mortal
posted 04 April 2004 04:41 PM EDT (US)     6 / 26       
Atlantean vils equal 2.5 times other vils in food gathering, a little less in wood and gold, take three pop, have 2.5 times food cost, have 25 wood cost for dropsite, don't have to worry about dropsites equals faster rate, cost 3 pop compared to one pop, build buildings 3x as fast, take 2.5 times as long to train.
2.5/3 times the vil means a couple things.
You get raided or attacked, they have to do much more damage to get rid of anything. But it equals 3x the vil.
You get a vil working later than people how have lesser-more vils. Basically you have to wait longer before they can work on something from your tc.

All econ upgrades effect your vils as effectivilly as the upgrades effect other civs vils, save husbandry, because it also equals less walk time for other civs vills, which is an advantage for you that you don't need this tech as much as they do.


Nick: Eten.
Gods: All of them!
Vanilla.
Hope_
Mortal
posted 04 April 2004 04:46 PM EDT (US)     7 / 26       
Yes but half the time when I raid an atlantean their super high HP lasts them long enough to garrison into a house and the crazy katapeltes come running over...

Unless you can block their pathing the villager usually escapes.

shminkledorf
Mortal
posted 04 April 2004 07:04 PM EDT (US)     8 / 26       
Ok, what I was trying to say (in case anyone else still wan't really clear) is that when an Atlantean villager dies, you will INSTANTLY lose 3 villagers. yes they have 3 times the HP, but still...
Bit of clarification:
You have one villager. (other civs, lets say start with 3), by the time an Atlantean gets another, they will already have had 2 of the 3 villies gathering before.

Wanna hear someone smart talking? Well, you're at the wronger poster...
Amon_Ra121
Mortal
posted 04 April 2004 11:24 PM EDT (US)     9 / 26       
When the Atlantean Villiger is killed, this maybe off-set by their high HP. You see, when an Atlantean Villiger is harrassed into 20 HP, but lives, it goes back to gathering...at the rate of 3 villigers.

1 greek villie + 1 greek villie + 1 greek villie = 1 atlantean villie

1 greek villie + 1 greek villie + 1 greek villie = X ammount of HP = 1 atlantean villie

*Raiding Occurs*

1 greek villie + 1 greek villie + 1 greek villie = 3XHP - ammount of HP lost = 20 hp, 1 villiger survived with 20 HP, gathering rate = 1X

1 atlantean villie = 3XHP(of greek) - ammount of HP lost = 20 hp, 1 atlantean villie lives with 20 HP, gathering rate = 3X

I hope you understood this...

City_Of_God
Mortal
posted 05 April 2004 02:18 AM EDT (US)     10 / 26       
Im sorry guys but a good Atl player is nigh on impossible to raid... IMPOSSIBLE. Careful placement of houses, can lead to a situation where you can never kill an Atl vil, no matter how good you are.
choda
Mortal
posted 05 April 2004 02:53 AM EDT (US)     11 / 26       
atlantians are the dorks of AOM

like said above you raid ..... do 2.9 woth of another civ damage to the villager .. it lives

another civ lost 2 villagers has one near death
atlantian looses 0 .

atlantian villager goes back to gathering
other civ produces 2 more to get back to same point.

+ walk time back to resource + difference in gather rate during walk and production.

atlantian villager is imune to zeus bolt.

To gain perspective trade villages with egypt.
egypt can start with no villagers one villager 66% built
with a cost of (insert cost here to finish production)

Do you think you would cry yer ass off about egypt being OP yes you would.

better yet Atlantians can have the scarab and egypt seige in return for destroyers ... Ill take that any day.

[This message has been edited by choda (edited 04-05-2004 @ 02:53 AM).]

King Of The Hill
Banned
posted 05 April 2004 10:43 AM EDT (US)     12 / 26       
Nice...

I was thinking... Look at this way, since Atlantean equals to 3 (+/-1) foreign villagers therefore we find less unit roaming around --> less headache, less micro-management & fewer points of threat etc.

Therefore, Atti Vill decrease daily stress. Is good for attacking player.

...

Psycho_Mani4c
Mortal
posted 05 April 2004 10:56 AM EDT (US)     13 / 26       
Stop whining. Just check some record games and see how much resources different civs have gotten. The atlanteans almost always come on top (unless you suck).

This discussion has been hold 100 times already, and the conclusion was that the atlantean economy is far SUPERIOR to any other AT THE START OF THE GAME but gets worse LATE GAME because the eco upgrades make the other villies care like 45 of all resources so the 0 walking time bonus is relatively less...

Also if you get raided as an atlantean you arent doing your work good enough, since HE has to be the one worrying about those hell-turma's...


AOE3 @ SM4RTASS

Dominating with: The French
HC: Le Moule
Explorer: Ze Chauvenist

shminkledorf
Mortal
posted 05 April 2004 05:38 PM EDT (US)     14 / 26       
ROFL at above post, that was funniest thing all day...please tell me if you were talking to me, if you were, I will have to argue now ^_^
1. WHo was whining? Seems to me that you're the one whining about my "whining" *coughhypocritecough*
2. HOW was i whining? I just try to state a fact of reason why i was thinking of a different way that attie villagers might be a bit worse than others...I'm aware that Atlantean economy is fine, and I don't play Atleanteans much, if at all.
3. Are you one of those people who see the word "atlantean" and starts to scream WHINER WHINER NERF NERF LOLOLOL? Seems to me...
Again, if not directed towards me, sorry ^_^

Wanna hear someone smart talking? Well, you're at the wronger poster...
King Of The Hill
Banned
posted 06 April 2004 00:46 AM EDT (US)     15 / 26       
Psycho_Mani4c is like diamond in the rough, although a bit hard but his comments are valid. Maybe he could give a link or something.

I feel sorry for you Sminkledorf.

...

[This message has been edited by King Of The Hill (edited 04-06-2004 @ 00:47 AM).]

Teddy_Horse
Mortal
posted 06 April 2004 05:07 AM EDT (US)     16 / 26       
THIS THREAD IS STUPID!

0) Villagers are like an iron cube with a 50 centimeters (15 inch) edge. Means: they R very heavy to lift but there is not enough space around to lift them. (Human cannot lift such a cube regardless how many of them you have around). Same with the citizen. Hell of a lot of HP, but there is not enough space around them to kill them with multiple units.

1) Of course you loose 3 virtual villagers instanly. Because if your opponent (using normal villagers) for the same damage suffered looses 3 as well. So WHAT?

2) Also please note that if you loose only 2/3 of your HP you still have your bloody citizen alive and working while your opponent lost 2 already.

3) Your opponent instantly looses villagers when he has to fight with wolfes and bears (in case of bear upto 5v1!!!). While citizen can kill 2 bears alone.

4) Citizens are slow when they need to cross the map but they are pretty fast to escape from a horde of raiding cavalaries (RC or hipps) specialy when they are in group so the raiders cannot block them and only 2 or max 3 raider can damage them.

5) Also please note another advantage of them. They have a small footprint. They use a farm with the exact same size like the villagers but that one equals to 2,5. The difference is a lot. If you build a single TC all around with citizens they will gather enough and you can still protect them.

6) They cannot be bolted unlike the others.

7) They can be converted to Heros. No nasty MU raid (anubits are raped).

Better shut up. You have a "set it and forget it" villager. One that does not have to walk to the lumber camp once the forrest starts to disappear. One that can instantly lay down farms at the exact same place where it was gathering berries. One that has a drop site that will not show on the minimap (as norse)...


My computer beats me in chess. But I am much better in kick-box...
GREEN CERTIFICATE: this message contains recycling electrons
King Of The Hill
Banned
posted 06 April 2004 05:44 AM EDT (US)     17 / 26       
Good'ness gracious! So intense... Relax dude.

By all means, Sminkledorf do have certain acceptable point although rather insignificant, then again little things cannot be left out.

For instance (quoted)"... but the others had been gathering BEFORE the other had come out..."

Which is true, Resource Vs Time = Optimal. Meaning non-Atti vill ahead of resource count the first couple of minutes. But that's it!

Don't get me wrong, the gist' is -- every civ's vill MUST have at least one/ more particular advantages or else you guys telling us ES Game Designer inconsistent. Are they? Ask Elmo... ...there... ...besides you.

Till' then HAVE A GOOD MYTHICAL LIFE!

...

Shhhhh... although, I must say no one is perfect... there's a lot of things can be done specially about game mechanics... but that is another story.

...

Psycho_Mani4c
Mortal
posted 06 April 2004 03:29 PM EDT (US)     18 / 26       
Lol dude, i would never ask for an attie nerf, since i play kronos/oranos myself... look at the post above to see all the reasons why attie villies are far better... also you can fit much more attie villagers around a wonder/titan gate (like 20 around a titan gate and 25 including the heroes you might have) instead of the usual 30 norse soldiers or 30 villagers for any other civ, so you can build stuff like that 3 times as fast (i know they build only 2.5 times at fast, go grab a calculator) which is another advantage

AOE3 @ SM4RTASS

Dominating with: The French
HC: Le Moule
Explorer: Ze Chauvenist

shminkledorf
Mortal
posted 06 April 2004 06:02 PM EDT (US)     19 / 26       
Wow, people have been taking this WAY too seriously. All I said is it was PERHAPS an idea, and I was proven wrong. I don't care if I was proven wrong at all, but when people start moaning and groaning and calls me a whiner, thats when I get angry. Again, I don't care if I was wrong, I was just seeing what others may think, but people come up and say, "stop whining" then I say...what the hell?

Wanna hear someone smart talking? Well, you're at the wronger poster...

[This message has been edited by shminkledorf (edited 04-06-2004 @ 06:06 PM).]

DarkFlame
Mortal
posted 22 April 2004 01:45 PM EDT (US)     20 / 26       
Actually, they have a small advantage when they're raided as well... A raid that would kill 2 Eggie/norse/greek villies kills zero Atlantean villagers, in theory. In practice, Atlantean villagers can easily get rid of or escape from small raids or MU raids, but will take heavy losses from raids of larger scale.

Ohmigod, fancy colour fading!
I blame these purple things.
GFWL: NilePenguin
MR2 Pilot
Mortal
posted 22 April 2004 02:12 PM EDT (US)     21 / 26       
No argument from me one way or the other on whether Citzns>Vills, as I think it's a push or a shove, or overall about equal.

The one place where Ctzns really shine though is gold mining, where you can easily put 6 Ctzns on one mine, whereas try putting 16+ Villies on one mine.

In a recent game as Oranos vs Set, not only were Sets animals no problem for the Ctzns, but when 2 siege towers came towards my TC, 2 Hero Ctzns took them out in seconds.


FAILURE is not an option, it comes bundled with the software.
The graduate with a science degree asks, "Why does it work ?"
The graduate with an engineering degree asks, "How does it work ?"
The graduate with an accounting degree asks, "How much will it cost ?"
The graduate with an arts degree asks, "Do you want fries with that ?"
Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.
Rodrigo Cabanillas
Mortal
posted 23 April 2004 01:31 AM EDT (US)     22 / 26       
Atlanteans are easy to manage, if they get raid they just move to another place and they can gather everywhere without creating "camps", wood atlanteans can chop in different places for example.


Maybe you should be talking about greeks, they need a lot of wood, and they have to put their mining and wooding together at the beggining.

jazzman_1
Mortal
posted 23 April 2004 02:54 AM EDT (US)     23 / 26       
I think the atlantean building rate may need to be toned down a bit perhaps..(excluding T.C. building of course, they build those things like old people f.. oh well you know the rest

[This message has been edited by jazzman_1 (edited 04-23-2004 @ 02:54 AM).]

biggestbal
Mortal
posted 23 April 2004 03:11 AM EDT (US)     24 / 26       
shminkledorf
ireally don;t know what u talking about,but i think u should know how fast they can gather resources more than others civ
curufir
Mortal
posted 23 April 2004 06:50 AM EDT (US)     25 / 26       
Perhaps i understand something wrong here, but doesn't it goes around the question too that :
1 starting citizen ... 2. ... 3. ...
2 starting villies ... 3. ... 4. ...

starting citizen (2.5 times) gap 2. ...
2 start. villies (2 times) then in the above gap 3. villie (3x) 4. villie (4x) then ctizen comes out (5x) ...

I hope you understand alreay, I mean the starting productions calculation is more difficult. It's not easy to see who is in front with this.

PS 'let's say you start with 3 vills' is a bit confusing for me.

Quircus
Mortal
posted 23 April 2004 01:38 PM EDT (US)     26 / 26       

Quote:

I think the atlantean building rate may need to be toned down a bit perhaps..(excluding T.C. building of course, they build those things like old people f.. oh well you know the rest

Why? They have the slowest Building in the game (except perhaps for the Egyptians) per Villager Building (i.e. 1 Citizen Builds slower than 3 Greek Villagers)

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