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Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy and General Discussion » The 3 Greek God-specific Units
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Topic Subject:The 3 Greek God-specific Units
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WrathofTulkas
Mortal
posted 07 December 2005 09:28 PM EDT (US)         
The hetairoi, myrmidons and gastraphetes. Which is best.
AuthorReplies:
Pug
Mortal
posted 07 December 2005 10:03 PM EDT (US)     1 / 39       
The Myrm.
IceCreamDude
Mortal
posted 07 December 2005 10:05 PM EDT (US)     2 / 39       
myrm vs non-greek, gast. vs. greek, gast. also own titan w/ beast slayer
Doomlord7
Mortal
posted 07 December 2005 11:11 PM EDT (US)     3 / 39       
gastraphetes 100%... just too expensive.

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TTK_GeneralNoob
Mortal
posted 07 December 2005 11:44 PM EDT (US)     4 / 39       
Myrmidons are the best, Gastrophes a little behind. IMO.

Don't forget Gastrophes have a slow fire time.

iamyourgod
Mortal
posted 08 December 2005 01:15 AM EDT (US)     5 / 39       
the slow fire time is to encourage you to mass them. when you have 20 gastras you can take down a longohouse in 1 shot from each so fire rate isnt that important.

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TTK_GeneralNoob
Mortal
posted 08 December 2005 01:58 AM EDT (US)     6 / 39       
20? Whew. 60 pop Isn't it? erm.....
cowfan28
Mortal
posted 08 December 2005 08:25 AM EDT (US)     7 / 39       
1. myridoms
2. gastraphs
3. herioty
Unome
Mortal
posted 08 December 2005 08:56 AM EDT (US)     8 / 39       
gastaphretes own my titan gate....

[SL_Unome]|---|---|---|---|----------------
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Strider 1
Mortal
posted 08 December 2005 11:24 AM EDT (US)     9 / 39       
Totally Gastraphetes....but Myrmidons are the best overall. The slow fire rate doesn't really affect them as long as they're not being attacked. Since they fire about once every 2 seconds, I've tested it and they do about double the attack shown by their stats. Its attack per second not per hit.

~~ Strider s~~

There is a time for many words, and there is also a time for sleep. - Homer

Zmash
Mortal
posted 08 December 2005 01:31 PM EDT (US)     10 / 39       
In vanilla 2 pop mirmidon,in TT mirmidon is meant for fighting, and it take down buildings well, and gastra excels at buildings and can fight back if necessary, and with beast slayer they can be used to pwn mus thanks to high crush damage plus bonus
AzianPhoenix
Mortal
posted 08 December 2005 05:56 PM EDT (US)     11 / 39       
I go Gastraphetes, totally replace siege, take down infantry, and anti-archer would have to come into building fire to take them down.

Myrmidons excel vs everything except the explict anti-infantry counters.

Heteroi are great for quickly taking down a TC. And a small group of Heteroi can do some house raiding havoc.


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Strider 1
Mortal
posted 08 December 2005 07:48 PM EDT (US)     12 / 39       
Myrmidons even do well verses their direct infantry counters. Not as much Greek ones, of course.

~~ Strider s~~

There is a time for many words, and there is also a time for sleep. - Homer

[This message has been edited by Strider 1 (edited 12-08-2005 @ 07:49 PM).]

Brtnboarder495
Mortal
posted 08 December 2005 07:49 PM EDT (US)     13 / 39       
Gastrephetes when backed by Hades towers and buildings, mryms in standard battle 9/10 times. Sorry Poseidon ...

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TTK_GeneralNoob
Mortal
posted 08 December 2005 08:38 PM EDT (US)     14 / 39       
Myrmidons do everything Gastrophes can and more!
AzianPhoenix
Mortal
posted 08 December 2005 09:03 PM EDT (US)     15 / 39       
I'm sure myrmidons can take down stuff from range - -

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IceCreamDude
Mortal
posted 08 December 2005 11:04 PM EDT (US)     16 / 39       
24 range and unlike other long ranged siege, it can fire directly in front of it.
TTK_GeneralNoob
Mortal
posted 09 December 2005 01:24 AM EDT (US)     17 / 39       
^hmm, point taken. But it only has 60% accuracy, compared to 100% of Myrmidons.
DeathAndPain
Mortal
posted 09 December 2005 05:00 AM EDT (US)     18 / 39       

Quoted from Doomlord7:

gastraphetes 100%... just too expensive.


...which is why they are not best since cost is an important trait of a unit. Myrmidons are not cheap either, but against non-greek they give you more for your money, so I am with IceCreamDude on this one.

Quoted from Unome:

gastaphretes own my titan gate....


That is because you neglect to make proper archer-counters...

Quoted from Strider 1:

Totally Gastraphetes....but Myrmidons are the best overall.


Hmm... Gastraphetes are the best but myrmidons are the best? You do not seem to know what you are saying.

Quoted from Zmash:

In vanilla 2 pop mirmidon,in TT mirmidon is meant for fighting, and it take down buildings well, and gastra excels at buildings and can fight back if necessary, and with beast slayer they can be used to pwn mus thanks to high crush damage plus bonus


So in the end, the question which is the best special unit remains unanswered by you. This in turn means your response was useless in this thread, because that is the question of this thread.

My opinion
Hetairoi stink, so they are out of the question.

Both myrms ans gastras are good units, but gastras are too expensive per unit. Myrms do not need to be massed like gastras in order to be effective, so cost per unit is less important for them. Gastras cannot expect always to enjoy allied building fire when attacking the enemy. I mean, you do not have fortresses everywhere, and if you plan on making them, they cost a fortune in gold and silver. Myrmidons do not require such support.

In addition, gastras are nice against buildings, but for the same pop and cost, petroboli are way more effective. Gastras compensate with their ability to attack other units, too, but still a petrobolos/toxote mix is a pretty decent replacement for a gastraphetes mixture, while myrmidons have firepower that you cannot easily replace with other Greek units.

Against their counters, both units suck as it should be, but gastras more than myrms. Myrms still get their bonus against arcusses, fanatics, ballistae, and chariot archers, while gastraphetes have rather low hp and die horribly against units like huskarls and RC with Sons of Sleipnir upgrade.

So overall, I see myrmidons in front, even if I factor in the fact that they do not get any bonus against Greek units.


Darkness is a state of mind
Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
Strider 1
Mortal
posted 09 December 2005 11:35 AM EDT (US)     19 / 39       
DeathAndPain, did I say anywhere in that sentence that Gastraphetes were the best? I totally love Gastraphetes, but I said Myrmidons are the best OVERALL.

Behind a meat shield, though, Gastraphetes really show their power. They may be expensive, but when used correctly they are totally worth their cost IMO.


~~ Strider s~~

There is a time for many words, and there is also a time for sleep. - Homer

[This message has been edited by Strider 1 (edited 12-09-2005 @ 11:42 AM).]

Yoshi1489
Mortal
posted 09 December 2005 04:11 PM EDT (US)     20 / 39       
Gats are the best because as Zeus, hops in my opinion are a little better on a pop/cost basis, and hers are just kinda weak. With burning pitch, weapon of the titans, gasts r te ultimate human unit.

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TTK_GeneralNoob
Mortal
posted 09 December 2005 08:28 PM EDT (US)     21 / 39       
Actually, A toxote with all the upgrades (inlcluding the god ones. Apollo, Ares and Artemis) I am pretty sure has about the same attack. And don't forget, toxotes take up less pop and are far cheaper. When I play Hades, I prefer fully upgraded tox over Gast.
IceCreamDude
Mortal
posted 09 December 2005 09:49 PM EDT (US)     22 / 39       
by mthic cost shouldnt b a problem but pop is. I would really prefer one over the other but i would pick da one that is most pop effective.
Strider 1
Mortal
posted 10 December 2005 12:04 PM EDT (US)     23 / 39       
Actually Toxotes have 13 peirce attack and Gastraphetes have 16, Tox do 0 crush damage and Gastraphetes do seven (x3 verses buildings), Toxotes have no bonuses and Gastraphetes have two (bonus verses buildings and 1.5 bonus verses myth units), Toxotes have 15 range and Gastraphetes have 24.

Note: this is for fully upgraded.


~~ Strider s~~

There is a time for many words, and there is also a time for sleep. - Homer

[This message has been edited by Strider 1 (edited 12-10-2005 @ 12:05 PM).]

TTK_GeneralNoob
Mortal
posted 11 December 2005 01:26 AM EDT (US)     24 / 39       
Are you sure? I though Toxotes had 14. Don't roget that Gast don't benefit from the Artemis up.

Vs Buildings Use seige.

And Vs Myth Use heroes.

The bonuses are nice, but you can live without them by using other units that do the Gastrophes bonuses even better.

Zmash
Mortal
posted 11 December 2005 02:45 AM EDT (US)     25 / 39       
one petrobolos = 3 pop and heroe (archaic one) = 2pop and one hypaspist0 2 pop that means that you are using 7 pop for those goals, gasts cant demolish buildings as fast as petrobolos and cant kill mus as fast as heroes, but you've got a unit that is slightly good against buildings, infantry and mus, all packed in a 3 pop archer
TTK_GeneralNoob
Mortal
posted 11 December 2005 03:08 AM EDT (US)     26 / 39       
Lets take a looksie:

( Take note I have not specially tested these, though I am 90% sure the following statements are correct).

1 Mythic Hero vs Collosus: =Hero wins
(Each cost 5 pop)

3 Gastrophes (We'll be nice and give them 9 pop) vs Collosus (5 pop) =Collosus wins...

Hmmmm..... I know who I will be using.


2 Gastrophes (6 pop) vs 1 Fortress= Gast wins cause of huge range.

1 Helepolis (Incorrect Spelling I think, I mean the Mythic Greek Seige 5 pop) vs 1 building = This baby takes it down faster than Gast! Even pop effectively! I even tested this one, and The Helepolis kicked ass! Well, tested with no upgrades, unrealistic, I know. But both get their respectable upgrades, And I am sure the Helepolis will still beat Gast when both are fully upgraded.

Yes, not cost effective, but hey, look how expensive they Gast are, if you can afford them, surely you can about 150 resources more.

And a It is obvious a direct counter to infantry will do better than the Gast.

So I would rather go an army of Infantry counters, Toxotes, Seige and heros than just Gast. =/

Strider 1
Mortal
posted 11 December 2005 11:47 AM EDT (US)     27 / 39       
First of all, TTK_GeneralNoob, mythic age Greek heroes only cost 4 pop, not 5.

Second of all, yes Toxotes only have 13 attack (if you round things up you MAY get something close to 14 attack - I don't know).

Third, no one in their right mind would make an army of all Gastraphetes. Gastraphetes are more of a back - up unit as they are too expensive to mass.

Fourth, FU Gastraphetes with burning pitch did around 50 damage to an unupgraded wonder. Sure, that's not as much damage as Helepolis or Petrolobus, but it is sure enough to seriously damage buildings. On top of that, they are effective against human soldiers and even myth units.

You can't compare the Gastraphetes to other units that specialize in one area. The strength of the Gastraphete is their power against a number of different units. Helepoli are pretty terrible at human soldiers and myth units, unlike the Gastraphetes from behind a meat sheild.

And concerning hard infantry counters, which do hack attack:

Most infantry have at least 50% hack armor FU, and most hard infantry counters, like Hypaspist, have around 8 attack and x4.25 bonus against infantry. If you negate the 34 damage by the 50% armor, you get about 17 damage to the enemy infantry. Gastraphetes do about 32 peirce attack FU verses infantry (because they fire about once every two seconds, thus double the attack), which, negated by the average infantry peirce armor FU (about 35%) you get about 21 damage to the enemy infantry.

So basically, Gastraphetes do more damage, and have the advantage of long range (but then you have to factor in the cost). I agree that they are not the best unit against either buildings, human soldiers, or myth units, but they certainly are a unit that can do well against any of them given proper usage. And that is where their strength, IMO, lies.


~~ Strider s~~

There is a time for many words, and there is also a time for sleep. - Homer

LC_Ushhud
Mortal
posted 11 December 2005 12:12 PM EDT (US)     28 / 39       
In my opinion gastraphes are the best because they can destroy buildings very quickly and when in a bunch, such as 5 gastraphes, they can take a unit down with ease and with their excellent range just adds more to their excellence. With the fire arrow improvement in the mythic age, now thats a deadly combination, when used appropriately.

You would not want to keep on sending one gastraphes at a time for that is a complete and utter waste....


Someones life was once history ---->to story ----> to legend----> to MYTH....
Our life will once be history ----> to story ----> to legend----> to MYTH...
And maybe they might make a game out of it... like Age Of Mythology (The Titans) ..... LOL

MY AOM: TT USERNAMES.... Ushhud(ALMOST NEVER), LC_Ushhud (VERY RARELY), DS_Ushhud (RARELY), KoD_Ushhud (ALWAYS)

[This message has been edited by LC_Ushhud (edited 12-11-2005 @ 12:13 PM).]

IceCreamDude
Mortal
posted 11 December 2005 01:55 PM EDT (US)     29 / 39       
IMO gasts r good but only in larger numbers vs a greek opponent ( mymidrons do better vs non-greek ). IMO gasts. r pretty cost effective but not pop effective. And pop by mythic should b a big problem. its not just that they r too expensive to mass, its jus with 3 pop its kinda hard to mass without sacrifcing a big number of pop. unless u have amazing micro;u r mixing up the idea of versitility (?) vs hard counters with combined arms ( i learned the hard way ). A nice mix of HADES hops,tox,pelts,heroes + ranged siege is better than gasts + w/e few units u wanna combine with them. 16 Pierce for 3 pop is pathetic compared to the 13 pierce for 2 pop of the toxs.

You cannot compare untis lik dat. u failed to take 3 pop vs 2 pop in consideration. Were the gast close to the enemy or not? The hypatists? What is the accuracy rate of the gast. hitting their target? Comparing archers 1v1 isnt really a test as will 1 tox. beat 1 spear?(untested) Does that mean tox r inferior to spear? Try in larger numbers and equal pop perhaps 15 hyps vs 15 spears and 10 gast vs 15 spears. I choose spears since they pretty high armor and r non-greek. Also take meatsheilds into consideration. O and dont ferget cherios they r hard counters to infantry too that do pierce.


Mymidrons also have a x1.5 vs all non-greek human military x1.5 vs buildings and have much higher base attack than gast. try them vs spears.

[This message has been edited by IceCreamDude (edited 12-11-2005 @ 02:14 PM).]

LC_Ushhud
Mortal
posted 11 December 2005 02:20 PM EDT (US)     30 / 39       
micro ????

Someones life was once history ---->to story ----> to legend----> to MYTH....
Our life will once be history ----> to story ----> to legend----> to MYTH...
And maybe they might make a game out of it... like Age Of Mythology (The Titans) ..... LOL

MY AOM: TT USERNAMES.... Ushhud(ALMOST NEVER), LC_Ushhud (VERY RARELY), DS_Ushhud (RARELY), KoD_Ushhud (ALWAYS)
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