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Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy and General Discussion » The 3 Greek God-specific Units
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Topic Subject:The 3 Greek God-specific Units
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WrathofTulkas
Mortal
posted 07 December 2005 09:28 PM EDT (US)         
The hetairoi, myrmidons and gastraphetes. Which is best.
AuthorReplies:
TTK_GeneralNoob
Mortal
posted 11 December 2005 07:03 PM EDT (US)     31 / 39       
First of all, Lets look at an earlier post:

Quoted from DeathAndPain:

In addition, gastras are nice against buildings, but for the same pop and cost, petroboli are way more effective. Gastras compensate with their ability to attack other units, too, but still a petrobolos/toxote mix is a pretty decent replacement for a gastraphetes mixture, while myrmidons have firepower that you cannot easily replace with other Greek units.

Against their counters, both units suck as it should be, but gastras more than myrms. Myrms still get their bonus against arcusses, fanatics, ballistae, and chariot archers, while gastraphetes have rather low hp and die horribly against units like huskarls and RC with Sons of Sleipnir upgrade.


Thank you DeathAndPain, you have explained it perfectly.

Quoted from Strider 1 :

On top of that, they are effective against human soldiers and even myth units.

Didn't you see my 'tests'? 9 pop worth of Gast lost to a 5 pop Collosus! How are they effective. I don't know about human unit though. Using the direct counters would be wiser.

Quoted from Strider 1:

You can't compare the Gastraphetes to other units that specialize in one area. The strength of the Gastraphete is their power against a number of different units.

You have just said my counter point in that little sentencs.
The strength of the Gastraphete is their power against a number of different units. And they don't do it as effectively as the specialized units. The reason I compare them to them is because everyone is saying the Gast are great cause they are soo good good vs everything. But specialized infantry counter, specialized building counters and specialized heroes are FAR better. Vs the enemy's 2 Fortress, 5 Minotaurs and 10 infantry, we know that the hero, infantry counters and Petroboli are going to do alot better than just Gast and a meatshield. However, since they are soooo good at everything, to mass them is the conclusion I came up with.

But since you don't want to mass them, I compared them to Tox. Tox cost less, have similiar armour, and about the same attack. They only cost 2 pop.

Yes, they don't have the many bonuses, but A Poseidon player does not care about the Gast, he can make an army of Tox, Seige, direct counters and hereos and be far better off.

btw, the accuracy of the Gast is 60%, I'd imagine they would have horrible accuracy with their huge range. Basically they always miss half the time. Add this on to unit running like infantry towards them.

IceCreamDude
Mortal
posted 11 December 2005 09:04 PM EDT (US)     32 / 39       
and not very pop effective
LC_Ushhud
Mortal
posted 11 December 2005 09:15 PM EDT (US)     33 / 39       
what does 'micro' mean/stand for? lots of ppl have been using it and i do not understand what it stands for/means...???

Someones life was once history ---->to story ----> to legend----> to MYTH....
Our life will once be history ----> to story ----> to legend----> to MYTH...
And maybe they might make a game out of it... like Age Of Mythology (The Titans) ..... LOL

MY AOM: TT USERNAMES.... Ushhud(ALMOST NEVER), LC_Ushhud (VERY RARELY), DS_Ushhud (RARELY), KoD_Ushhud (ALWAYS)
COLOSSUS_91
Banned
posted 11 December 2005 09:41 PM EDT (US)     34 / 39       

Quoted from "Climbing your way up to 17+" by Mythical_King:

Micro = Micromanagement - Using counters. For example. Send tox to hops and hippokins to tox and hops to hippokins.

LC_Ushhud
Mortal
posted 11 December 2005 10:26 PM EDT (US)     35 / 39       
thx colossus_91 and srry when i was afk at the 2 v 2 game... my sis had to go on but i thought only a minute but ended up for quite a while... so srry....

:'(


Someones life was once history ---->to story ----> to legend----> to MYTH....
Our life will once be history ----> to story ----> to legend----> to MYTH...
And maybe they might make a game out of it... like Age Of Mythology (The Titans) ..... LOL

MY AOM: TT USERNAMES.... Ushhud(ALMOST NEVER), LC_Ushhud (VERY RARELY), DS_Ushhud (RARELY), KoD_Ushhud (ALWAYS)

[This message has been edited by LC_Ushhud (edited 12-11-2005 @ 10:26 PM).]

IceCreamDude
Mortal
posted 11 December 2005 11:46 PM EDT (US)     36 / 39       
wat i meant was its harder to micro sum gast. toward buildings, sum toward infantry, and sum toward myth. IMO its eZ to have pretrobles atack buildings, toxotes to attack infantry, and heroes to myth units. How do u guys quote?

[This message has been edited by IceCreamDude (edited 12-11-2005 @ 11:46 PM).]

Strider 1
Mortal
posted 12 December 2005 11:19 AM EDT (US)     37 / 39       
TTK_GeneralNoob I totally agree with you. However, I would like to point out that (...lets think...) Collosi have 80% peirce!!!! Obviously Gastraphetes are not going to put a dent in them! Only three myth units have 80% peirce! Sure, specialized units will do better than Gastraphetes at their targeted unit couters, but as I said, Gastraphetes can be powerful behind a meatshield - mixed in with other units. But by no means should Gastraphetes be used extensively for a purpose another unit can fulfill better.

So basically, I would say that choosing to use Gastraphetes depends on the player, but as you said TTK, an army of Toxotes, heroes, and siege will do a similar job, if not better. But the Gastraphete, in my opinion, is still a powerful unit (very good in deathmatch ) in certain situations - like Titan killing, for example . Personally, I like to keep a few in my standard Greek army.

By the way, I think Gastraphetes automatically target buildings.

IceCreamDude, to quote you can do this:

Copy and paste what another person said into your reply box. Then put this before the words [quote="[i]name of person".] and put this after the words [/quote.]

Note: Do not include the periods I put in the example. I did that so that the quote markers would not turn into a quote.


~~ Strider s~~

There is a time for many words, and there is also a time for sleep. - Homer

[This message has been edited by Strider 1 (edited 12-12-2005 @ 11:22 AM).]

DeathAndPain
Mortal
posted 13 December 2005 04:56 AM EDT (US)     38 / 39       

Quoted from Strider 1:

Actually Toxotes have 13 peirce attack and Gastraphetes have 16, Tox do 0 crush damage and Gastraphetes do seven (x3 verses buildings), Toxotes have no bonuses and Gastraphetes have two (bonus verses buildings and 1.5 bonus verses myth units), Toxotes have 15 range and Gastraphetes have 24.

Note: this is for fully upgraded.


Just for the books: FU tox have a bonus against buildings because they have burning pitch as a consequence of being FU. (so do Gastras, I know)

Strider 1, I can follow your explanations, but in fact you (and the other gastra proposers) are already fighting with your back so close to the wall that you explain why it is viable (pop-efficient) to use gastras at all despite their horrible pop and resource cost. Meanwhile, the awesome value of myrmidons is pretty much undoubted. It is obvious that myrmidons are better.


Darkness is a state of mind
Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
Strider 1
Mortal
posted 13 December 2005 11:42 AM EDT (US)     39 / 39       
I am not implying that Gastraphetes are better than Myrmidons. It is clear that Myrmidons are, in fact, the better unit.

However, my arguement is that Gastraphetes are good units when used in certain situations, but they can be uneffective compared to their Greek unit counterparts in pop/cost effeciency in most others. Like antibiotics, toothpaste, and computer games, Gastraphetes are things that should best be used in moderation.


~~ Strider s~~

There is a time for many words, and there is also a time for sleep. - Homer

[This message has been edited by Strider 1 (edited 12-13-2005 @ 12:20 PM).]

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