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Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy and General Discussion » "Losing" Battles
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Topic Subject:"Losing" Battles
Riku_Necross
Mortal
posted 12 December 2005 07:02 PM EDT (US)         
Everyone says don't fight a losing battle. I understand the don't and losing but what really is a "losing" battle, because alot of times i'll send in afew raiders to try and hurt the enemy economy and population. If you get your raiders killed but take out afew houses/villagers/a temple maybe, is it a good battle or a lost cause
AuthorReplies:
IceCreamDude
Mortal
posted 12 December 2005 07:47 PM EDT (US)     1 / 14       
only if im doing way more damage to them than to myself..
iamyourgod
Mortal
posted 12 December 2005 07:51 PM EDT (US)     2 / 14       
if you can kill about 1.5 times worth as much villagers as the death rate of your raiders then it should be worth it. same for houses. you always want them to spend more recovering than you do

I love jesus,with every part of my body, does that make me gay?
AzianPhoenix
Mortal
posted 12 December 2005 09:24 PM EDT (US)     3 / 14       
It depends, sometimes I fight battles I know I can't win to distract or buy me some time to put up that important building. It's just hard to say when battles aren't worth it. I say it all depends on the situation.

Best game ever made, don't dieeeeeeee
Riku_Necross
Mortal
posted 12 December 2005 09:25 PM EDT (US)     4 / 14       
ok thanks now i know if its worth a raid or not becuase sometimes when i have my idle guys i just run in and try to take afew hundred off the town center just to see how theyre doing and if theyre going with good defense or offence.
Pug
Mortal
posted 12 December 2005 09:27 PM EDT (US)     5 / 14       
Ill do it to open up pop slots in some cases. Or if Isis casts prosperity I dont mind losing a few rc to screw up the gold gathering.
DeathAndPain
Mortal
posted 13 December 2005 04:26 AM EDT (US)     6 / 14       

Quoted from riku_necross:

Everyone says don't fight a losing battle. I understand the don't and losing but what really is a "losing" battle


This general rule is mainly meant to be applied to major battles. The reason is that the stronger army (more or more powerful units) is dealing out more damage per second. As the consequence, the stronger army is not only winning the battle, it also suffers the lesser losses because it kills the enemy units faster. And the more units is has killed the weaker the enemy remnants become...

This snowball effect is greater than you might expect. For instance, a battle of 9 ulfs vs 6 ulfs may easily end with 8 of the 9 ulfs surviving which means that the losses ratio is 1:6.

For that reason, the general advice is: If your troops are weaker, then run! Save them for times and places in which you will be superior. Knowing when to fight and when to run is a trait that separates good players from elite ones.

In raid situations, your army is typically stronger because you are facing villagers. Unless the vills dearly outnumber you or have significant allied building fire, fighting usually pays off. But if your raiding force is facing superior opposition, then run of your life! There is no point in killing 3 vills losing 6 RC. That is no successful raid.


Darkness is a state of mind
Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
Riku_Necross
Mortal
posted 13 December 2005 04:30 PM EDT (US)     7 / 14       
I have a seemingly great question to ask....


If your army is gonna be creamed by an enemy army, (if speed is on your side)should you try to go run to find some of their vills and attack them while the army kills you?, And what if you run home and they follow you right to your base?

DeathAndPain
Mortal
posted 15 December 2005 08:43 AM EDT (US)     8 / 14       

Quoted from riku_necross:

If your army is gonna be creamed by an enemy army, (if speed is on your side)should you try to go run to find some of their vills and attack them while the army kills you?


Nope. You will not manage to kill enough villagers for a halfway healthy relation to what you lose. Running is always better unless you know for sure none of your units will make it back home alive anyway.

Quoted from riku_necross:

And what if you run home and they follow you right to your base?


Then you have the following advantages on your side:

  • You have time to produce more units while both armies are moving towards your base, units that you choose to counter the contents of his army.

  • Your barracks are closer, so you get quicker reinforcements when the battle rages. This is a really big advantage that is often underestimated. He may have enough barracks so that he always has units sitting at 99% and remains at pop limit, but his units have to walk all over the map to join the battle. Yours participate as soon as they finish training. This has the effect of you having military units for a higher number of pop space fighting for you. And the larger army has the lesser losses...

  • Your base can include defensive structures like towers and fortresses that support you in the fight.

    Believe me, it makes a big difference if you fight on his ground, or on your own. But when it comes to hurting the enemy economy, you can only be successful on enemy (or unclaimed) ground. Which is why you should not play passive and turtle, but attack and especially raid.


    Darkness is a state of mind
    Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
    Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
  • Riku_Necross
    Mortal
    posted 15 December 2005 09:37 AM EDT (US)     9 / 14       
    Geez...I figured that was a hard question but w/e...your as good as the people say XP. i never noticed the home advantages.... i thought it just gave them a chanmce to find your eco and ruin it.

    I'm the superbeast.
    DeathAndPain
    Mortal
    posted 15 December 2005 10:38 AM EDT (US)     10 / 14       

    Quoted from riku_necross:

    Geez...I figured that was a hard question but w/e...your as good as the people say XP.


    Thank you.

    Quoted from riku_necross:

    i never noticed the home advantages.... i thought it just gave them a chanmce to find your eco and ruin it.


    These advantages are also why good players place loads of barracks all over the map. Theoretically, you could erect a pile of, say, 10 barracks at home and then always have enough production capacity to immediately replace any losses. This would also be easy to handle since you could define a common rally point for all those barracks and periodically take the new units from there. But it is a great advantage to be able to make new units near the actual battlefield, so good players effectively make more barracks than they would need over the course of the game. This also means that they can still produce reinforcements when they lose ground and fall back, because they are not dependent on the forward barracks that they are losing.

    To make the importance of running easier to understand, take a look at this example. You have 10 TA and are attacked by 15 RC. TA are slow and you are deep in enemy territory, so you estimate that by the time you make it back home, half of your TA will be slain while he suffered no losses (you were running and thus not fighting back). This basically sounds bad.

    However, if you stand and fight, then he will lose perhaps one RC, but all your 10 TA will be done for. So if you stay and fight, you still lose your 5 TA but in addition, you effectively trade another 5 TA for 1 enemy RC. Now that is bad!


    Darkness is a state of mind
    Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
    Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
    Riku_Necross
    Mortal
    posted 15 December 2005 11:43 AM EDT (US)     11 / 14       
    so what your trying to say is if i run and he follows ill keep afew units but lead him into a possible ambush of units?
    DeathAndPain
    Mortal
    posted 16 December 2005 04:31 AM EDT (US)     12 / 14       
    If you manage to lead him into an ambush that is fine. But basically, I am just saying that you cannot fight him effectively when outnumbered, and rescuing some units is better than rescuing no units.

    Darkness is a state of mind
    Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
    Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
    Vindicated
    Mortal
    posted 16 December 2005 08:44 AM EDT (US)     13 / 14       
    Good Advise from DeathandPain as usual. I remember back when i started doing this, it helped alot and i really noticed and improvment in my game
    Riku_Necross
    Mortal
    posted 16 December 2005 04:05 PM EDT (US)     14 / 14       
    well thats settled...my last game was a pretty horrid one...i wanted practice but, the guy i played...i attacked him once then noticed his TC was gone and i asked him why and he said i ruined the town....i never touched his tc never hit a house he had all 4 sentinels (hades guy), his army even beat mine in the one raid but he went and found a new one so i followed him with a nice army and Fimbulwintered while i hunted him down...so yea....

    so my next question...how do i protect my villagers from being burned by a raid? i never get raided by my opponents for some reason but i wanna be prepared...

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