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Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy and General Discussion » The effectiveness of Elevation bonuses in multiplayer games
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Topic Subject:The effectiveness of Elevation bonuses in multiplayer games
Fox_Mulder_
Mortal
posted 06 December 2001 05:56 PM EDT (US)         
I've played AoK for two years now, and have rarely (if never) really noticed about the elevation bonuses, even when they were mentioned in the manual - one of reasons is because their effectiveness wasn't "bottom lined" in the manual as the other bonuses such as the pikemen vs. cavalry or rams vs. buildings - very popular bonuses, indeed, even among novice players.

With the fluctuating 20%-30% attack bonus, elevation does make a difference in combat, given that the number and type of units are about the same on both side. Unfortunately, so far it only worked effectively in the many test games that I’ve conducted in the Scenario Editor, where units on both sides were balanced and “controlled”: both sides had similar statistics, and they both attacked at the same time. Still, I need to mention that this elevation bonus is very mild: if there is a little help from outside, such as a man-at-arm or two, the elevation bonus would be diminished. Therefore, as we can see, the pay-off for using elevation is too small a factor to a player, so he/she would not feel (or really get) rewarded for the extra effort.

The main reason, I believe, that the elevation bonus failed to catch my attention (as well as other players) is because of its degree of importance...perhaps its lack of it. Most players don’t do tests to see how much bonus is granted if they do certain things, but after playing the game for a while, they could *feel* whether doing these tasks is effective or not.

We usually see players use pikemen to counter cavalries, or skirmishers vs. archers, but how often do we see players actually move their troops to an elevated ground to counter their enemies? Hardly. I hope to see elevation used in AoM, though

[This message has been edited by Fox_Mulder_ (edited 12-06-2001 @ 06:06 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
SoR_Anarchy
Mortal
posted 06 December 2001 06:40 PM EDT (US)     1 / 9       
I totally agree, solid thoughts.

God Bless America.

I am the state.

thawky
Mortal
posted 06 December 2001 07:50 PM EDT (US)     2 / 9       
Stronghold does a great job with the elevation bonuses. I think AoM should have clear-cut bonuses for different elevation differences, not just elevations. For example, if you're at a height of 6, and your opponent is at a height of 3, it should give you a bonus for 3 height tiles, not 6.

thawky
I'm heaven sent...don't you dare forget.

My tongue's the only muscle on my body that works harder than my heart.

Thunder
VIP BonusXP
posted 06 December 2001 08:02 PM EDT (US)     3 / 9       
In a great many games I have seen players use hills to their advantage, or players fighting over hills in AoK in order to gain or nullify another's elevation bonus. I think it worked pretty well, added a little strategy, and was definitely used.

Always room for improvement though.

alLan Mandragoran
Mortal
posted 06 December 2001 08:23 PM EDT (US)     4 / 9       
i agree.i c the differnce tho when u r using trebs,set them on top of a hill and u can get like 500 more attack
Fox_Mulder_
Mortal
posted 06 December 2001 10:25 PM EDT (US)     5 / 9       
Hi guys,

Thanks everybody for replying!

Quoted from Thawky:
I think AoM should have clear-cut bonuses for different elevation differences, not just elevations.

For example, if you're at a height of 6, and your opponent is at a height of 3, it should give you a bonus for 3 height tiles, not 6.

Yes! Great point! Thx for mentioning that! I've forgot about that . I checked infos on this over MFO a while back, and this was what they concluded after their tests on elevation bonuses:

" An archer will inflict just as much damage shooting at a target 1 elevation lower as against a target 5 elevations lower." - Elevation effects

By the way, do you guys play death match or random map, or both? I play both. In death matches, I *sometimes* see people use the elevation strategy...very rare. In random maps, because it involves economic booms and tiny rushes, and no big battles like in death matches, I have never seen it been used. I've use it once or twice to see how it is, but other than that, I don't use the elevation since many other things overshadow it, and it doesn't worth the micro-managements.


"The truth is out there"
Toastabal
Mortal
posted 07 December 2001 02:37 PM EDT (US)     6 / 9       
If you go watch expert games or even inter games over at MFO you'll see players using elevation. However this is mostly during the early ages (most notably in fedual) but also building placement (towers anyone?). The main point is it is used (IMO enough too).
I don't know the numbers but I've heard an archer with fletching on a hill will beat a skirm without fletching that is not on a hill, and everyone knows that skirms otherwise SLAUGHTER archers. Things like when it would be worth walking past to get to the top of the hill wouldn't matter anymore...it would always be worth it.
BTW nope, I'm not even inter anylonger. used to be inter+++ though but have stopped playing now


Toast

Alexandergreat3
Mortal
posted 07 December 2001 05:18 PM EDT (US)     7 / 9       
Toastaball, I did tests for archer on the hill vs skirms, only one out of three times did the archer win, and he had like 2 or 3 hitpoints left. But that only happens when the archer had a technology advantage over the skirmisher with the fletching upgrade (+1 attack, +1 range).

Without the additional attack and outranging the skirmishers, the archer still loses when he's on the hill. To me, the reason why the archer had a 33 percent chance of beating the skirmisher was because he outranged the skirm with the fletching tech. More range from fletching allowed the archer to shoot at the skirmisher first. Therefore, I'd say that the elevation bonus played a minor role in giving the archer the tiny 1/3 chance. The arrow upgrade was the key factor.


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[This message has been edited by Alexandergreat3 (edited 12-07-2001 @ 05:20 PM).]

TheShadowDawn
Mortal
posted 08 December 2001 06:36 AM EDT (US)     8 / 9       
If you watch the better players, they will opt for elevation when placing towers and making a stand with Archers wherever possible, in the early game at least. Beyond early game there's too much to control for it to be worth placing units on altitude.

The one thing that should really be different is that ranged units should get a cumulative bonus the higher they are, as with in Stronghold. So an Archer firing down 5 tiles should get much more damage than one firing down 1 tile, or on level ground.

It would also be an interesting idea to consider with this proposition then that if units are garrisonned in towers, instead of firing at the Tower's level of attack, they attack normally, with a bonus for the height of the tower. Logically then tower upgrades would make the tower higher.

I doubt such an idea would be incorporated, but it's interesting consider, no?


TheShædøwDåwn
If you're like me, then it's possible you're a clone generated from my stolen DNA. I suggest you turn yourself in for destruction immediately.
Fox_Mulder_
Mortal
posted 08 December 2001 06:04 PM EDT (US)     9 / 9       
Quote:
I doubt such an idea would be incorporated, but it's interesting consider, no?

This idea is much, much more than interesting . I hope ES designers feel the same about it, if not...oh well . (At least, I hope they play test it out )

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