You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Strategy and General Discussion
Moderated by Yeebaagooon, TAG

Hop to:    
Welcome! You are not logged in. Please Login or Register.26 replies
Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy and General Discussion » Greeks suddenly popular?
Bottom
Topic Subject:Greeks suddenly popular?
Silent_Assassin7
Mortal
posted 06 September 2006 04:29 PM EDT (US)         
Why are so many threads about greeks all the sudden? A month ago everyone said they scuked and now there are all these people explaining their power and talking about them. A reason?
AuthorReplies:
Kang_the_Mad
Mortal
posted 06 September 2006 04:32 PM EDT (US)     1 / 26       
I've been seeing a lot more Zeus players for some reason...
sdw12umdjc
Mortal
posted 06 September 2006 04:52 PM EDT (US)     2 / 26       
It is because... greekisOP.
gadunz
Mortal
posted 06 September 2006 04:59 PM EDT (US)     3 / 26       
Its coz gymnasium means "place of nakedness". males only

WhyHowOwlsRootElves
DeuschtlanderAPig
Kaminoan
Mortal
posted 06 September 2006 06:37 PM EDT (US)     4 / 26       
Too bad, they shpould let in girls too, then fun, fun, fun

But greeks were never bad, they own norse ande are about 4 fingers better than eggy, they only suk to rushes and atty


Say NO to non-animated violence.
Wadinator
Mortal
posted 06 September 2006 06:40 PM EDT (US)     5 / 26       
Here's what happened.

Everyone was like, let's play Isis, cause she's OP.

Then, someone found out that collosus + myrmidons will kill any Egyptian army with ease.

Therefore, in order to combat the loads of people playing Isis, gods like Zeus suddenly became much "stronger" in peoples minds solely because they can beat Egypt's popular FH strat.

However, in reality, greek has only gotten more popular because their units/strats are more effective against the now popular strategies. Therefore, IMO there will be a new surge of players playing civs that can easily beat the next popular strat, etc.

Sadly, gods like Gaia will never be included in this loop.


My Scenario: Battle Pit
There once were four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody and Nobody. There was an important job to do and Everybody was asked to do it. Everybody was sure Somebody would do it. Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it. Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job. Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody would not do it. It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.
a_game_a_win
Mortal
posted 06 September 2006 06:41 PM EDT (US)     6 / 26       
Atty>>>>>>>>Greeks. Eggy are better than Greeks, just Greeks can defeat them a lot easier than other civs.
Lkysam
Mortal
posted 06 September 2006 07:01 PM EDT (US)     7 / 26       
Agreed. For an eggy (and I assume you mean Isis) let's a Zeus player of even skill level get to mythic and spam Myrms + Collossi with full armor ups the eggy messed up horribly somewhere. I play as Zeus and Isis so I know how devastating a well placed AE can be. Combine that with uber elephants and merc spamming and it's amazing that the Greeks win any games at all.
Pug
Mortal
posted 06 September 2006 07:43 PM EDT (US)     8 / 26       
An expert plays a god to the top 5+ and suddenly many players starts playing that god, in the end to find out its the player more than the god.

R.I.P Shiva
John2194
Mortal
posted 06 September 2006 08:08 PM EDT (US)     9 / 26       
Well...Its probaly because someone asked something about how to be better at greek so then people started trying to play them and found out they are good at them. I like Poseidon now but most of my friends rush and are atty so I'm still trying to figure out a way to beat atty and rushes. Thats the Greeks main weakness because they usually can't get up an army fast enough to stop rush. And Atlanteans are OP. Because of the speed of Turma(used for raiding probaly best raider in game), and there units being able to turn into heroes and there easy but steady favor flow.
narmerguy
Mortal
posted 06 September 2006 10:58 PM EDT (US)     10 / 26       
The whole colosi + mymidian combo is way over-rated. Any eggy player with a brain can micro priests on colosi. They are too slow to run away, the priest range is long anouth to stay away from infantry, and CA or Axeman (most likely eggy will use CA) will make short work of the infantry. And after the priests are done raping the colosi they can help with the infantry as well. What's better? Hathor's myth unit (not gonna try to spell, the crocodile thing) will destroy human soldiers from the back as well and do more than enough damage to colosi.

That start is so inefective againsat Eggy imo.

HighbulpIII
Mortal
posted 06 September 2006 11:28 PM EDT (US)     11 / 26       
Actually priests do nothing to colossi.

*Highbulp the Third*-*Highbulp the Third*
*Highbulp the Third*-*Highbulp the Third*
*Highbulp the Third*-*Highbulp the Third*
*Highbulp the Third*-*Highbulp the Third*
*Highbulp the Third*-*Highbulp the Third*
*Highbulp the Third*-*Highbulp the Third*
Kang_the_Mad
Mortal
posted 07 September 2006 00:02 AM EDT (US)     12 / 26       
I remember when I was messing around with Ra. Faced a Zeus fast mythicer. Like 14 priests didn't do crap to a collosus
iamyourgod
Mortal
posted 07 September 2006 00:07 AM EDT (US)     13 / 26       
yeah the whole 60(80?) armor bit along with huge health kinda screws up priests and petuchos. the only real way for egy to kill collosi is with SoO, which dies to bolt
gadunz
Mortal
posted 07 September 2006 00:27 AM EDT (US)     14 / 26       
Upgraded pegasi should be healers. Ancient greek proverb "A woman for babies, a man for enjoyment & a little boy for ultimate pleasure". Unlike the movie "Troy" ,Achilles & Patrocolus weren't cousins , but lovers

WhyHowOwlsRootElves
DeuschtlanderAPig
Kang_the_Mad
Mortal
posted 07 September 2006 00:49 AM EDT (US)     15 / 26       
All of that is true, which is what scares me the most(anceint greek gayness, not boy love is ultimate pleasure)
Anastasoulis
Mortal
posted 07 September 2006 01:53 AM EDT (US)     16 / 26       
hey gadunz,
did you know that homosexuality was forbidden by law in ancient Greece, and that in fact the penalty was -par example in Athens- DEATH ?

Of course, societies get corrupted and this is what happened, starting after the wars with the Persians. It was an Eastern habbit that came over to Greece and it's thought by some experts, that it was from the Easterner prisoners.
Still, homosexuality wasn't viewed as today in the ancient world, and in Greece women were thought to be inferior to men and used for breeding and political-society positional purpouses mainly. True love, was between men who were best friends, and this included sometimes carnal knowledge too.
Last, homosexual relations between ancient Greeks didn't have any effect upon their life with women, or war, as -for example- the best known soldiers the Theban Holy Company, was composed by men who were "couples". I also remember reading about these warriors, and a story where the elder told his younger "brother" before battle: "I've taught you everything else, and now I'm going to teach you how to die for your country", and then he alone charged the enemy army...

ehmmm, that's all I guess on the ancient Greek homosexuality thing.

regards


the Elder
"imagination is more important than knowledge."
Albert Einstein
gadunz
Mortal
posted 07 September 2006 01:59 AM EDT (US)     17 / 26       
The Holy Brotherhood were all killed by Phillips Macedons , who was so impressed with thier refusal to surrender he built a memorial to them

WhyHowOwlsRootElves
DeuschtlanderAPig
animageous
Mortal
posted 07 September 2006 02:20 AM EDT (US)     18 / 26       
I like Poseidon, mainly cause I don't want to be Isis because everyone is, and I like supporting the underdog, so not Zeus either. I also dislike Atlantean because of their villagers, so even with hetairoi being his unique unit, Poseidon is cool.

Plus, militia are useful.


Change is inevitable except from a vending machine.
Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have.
Always borrow money from a pessimist. He won't expect it back.
What happens if you get scared half to death twice?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
DeathAndPain
Mortal
posted 07 September 2006 03:16 AM EDT (US)     19 / 26       

Quoted from Anastasoulis:

and a story where the elder told his younger "brother" before battle: "I've taught you everything else, and now I'm going to teach you how to die for your country", and then he alone charged the enemy army...


That reminds me of a passage in James Clavell's famous book "Shogun":

Toranaga's most trusted general: "Engaging them on the battlefield despite their superior numbers would be the most honorable appraoch."

Toranaga: "But foolish, right?"


Darkness is a state of mind
Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
Anastasoulis
Mortal
posted 07 September 2006 05:04 AM EDT (US)     20 / 26       
hey DaP, welcome back missed you there for some days.

as to your Toronaga's saying, I must respond with saying that sometimes you win by losing and even dying. Remember Thermopylae? I can also give you many examples of Greek and world history, where an army gave battle with no possibility of winning, and won something else...

regards


the Elder
"imagination is more important than knowledge."
Albert Einstein
DeathAndPain
Mortal
posted 07 September 2006 05:34 AM EDT (US)     21 / 26       

Quoted from Anastasoulis:

Remember Thermopylae?


Yes, that was the name of an island in the awesome Amiga game "Carrier Command".

Quoted from Anastasoulis:

I must respond with saying that sometimes you win by losing and even dying.


Depends on your definition of "victory". Of course you can be indoctrinated by your military that dying for your country is the greatest victory that you can achieve. Or you can believe that blowing yourself up in an airplane wins you eternal paradise.

But from a rational point of view, are these victories for you? What is the "victory" if you cannot be among those that celebrate it because you are dead?

Even if you die in, say, a successful attempt to save the life of your child, then you reached your goal, but will never know that you did, because you are dead. A victory? I won't necessarily say no, but this sure depends on definition. As a matter of fact you "won" nothing that way, because you don't have anything when you are dead (leaving aside religious aspects).

And returning to your example, what is the victory in the elder warrior charging at the enemy army alone and be slain with a swift blow whilst achieving nothing against the overwhelming opposition (or even being struck by a well-aimed arrow hit before even reaching the enemy army)?

Quoted from Anastasoulis:

I can also give you many examples of Greek and world history, where an army gave battle with no possibility of winning, and won something else...


One will do.

Darkness is a state of mind
Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
cid400
Mortal
posted 07 September 2006 10:13 AM EDT (US)     22 / 26       
back to what namer guy said also Zeus has Belephron so there goes the archer and myth unit support

Cid Highwind is the BEST final Fasntsy caracter ever!!


FFVII OWNS ALL

Anastasoulis
Mortal
posted 08 September 2006 02:10 AM EDT (US)     23 / 26       
OK DaP, good topic to philosophise on.

Examples:

A. Philippine-American War 1899-1902, the "boy general" defends a pass against the American Juggernaut, in order for the leader of the resistance -Emilio Aguinaldo- to have time to escape. Victory was that Aguinaldo survived and so the resistance continued.

B. Thermopylae (hot gates in Greek), the 300 Spartans plus 700 Fokaeans all died, but caused heavy casualties to the Persian army and awe to all. The Persian king, had his dead burried in the night, in order to avoid his army seeing the number of casualties in the morning and lose their nerve. The Greeks, had their will strengthened to repel the invaders.

C. Greek Revolution 1821-1828: a warrior-priest called Papaflessas, stood at Maniaki in the Peloponese with 300 Greeks, against the onslought of Ibrahim Pasha from Egypt.
Their sacrifice, moved the quareling Greeks and they united once more to repel the invaders. This event, also helped with European public opinion, and so the big powers sent their combined fleet that ended Egyptian help to the Ottoman Turks, thus making the Greek Revolution to achieve victory, and Greece to be free.

D. On the matter of "expending yourself" in an attack to hurt the enemy (like the Japanese kamikaze, Vietkong vs the French, or even nowadays suicide bombers), I agree that it's a matter of perspective.
I admit to have been indoctrinated during my obligatory military service in the Greek Special Forces, to accept to sacrifice myself for my country...
Still, there's many different cultures in the world, and in many of them individuals perceive their survival of lesser importance to that of their nation. This is due to political (like in communism), religious (like in Islam), or nationalistic (like in WWII Japan) reasons.
In any case, these "solo assymetrical attacks", do create a "headache" to the forces receiving them. Just look at the problem caused by fanatic Islamists and their terrorist attacks to the western world. Since they cannot defend against the American invasions and aerial bombing campaigns on their lands, they've carried the war to the enemy lands, causing many problems and the expenditure of huge amounts of money and resources for homeland security, not to mention the limitations to personal freedoms by certain laws enforced. Isn't that a "small victory" for them?

For the game, I say this argument: I've seen and done myself the sacrifice of an army, in order to achieve another goal, such as building that TC, Fortress, or whatever.

So to close this long post, battle sacrifice against impossible odds, is valuable and can achieve victory in some other respect.

ehmmm, that's all I guess...

regards


the Elder
"imagination is more important than knowledge."
Albert Einstein
ForgottenFriend
Mortal
posted 08 September 2006 07:20 AM EDT (US)     24 / 26       
ok dont know how to quote but you get the idea
------------------------------------------

Anastasoulis
B. Thermopylae (hot gates in Greek), the 300 Spartans plus 700 Fokaeans all died, but caused heavy casualties to the Persian army and awe to all. The Persian king, had his dead burried in the night, in order to avoid his army seeing the number of casualties in the morning and lose their nerve. The Greeks, had their will strengthened to repel the invaders.

-----------------------------------------

i know that you've already said it but im kinda a Classical nut so im gonna add to that the best i can
the battle of Thermopylae was perhapes the greatest defeat of the greeks (in a good way) the greek army held off the persian army for 3 days then left the spartans to hold for another day.
now this may seam rather normal but the thing is the persian army numbered 250,000 thats right four zeros, it was the biggest army the world had ever seen and would never see one the same size until World War 1 so yeh lots of importance of sacrifice for the greater good, or Sacrifice the few for the needs of the many

oh back to the topic i think that people are getting sick of being Isis FH so they are finding out what works against it and using that, Adaptation (spell) or Evolving as a group

mooker123
Mortal
posted 08 September 2006 04:10 PM EDT (US)     25 / 26       
Sorry to keep off topic, but if you want to read an amazing book on Thermopylae, read "Gates of Fire" by Steven Pressfield. Simply put, one of the best books I've ever read. He perfectly captures the essence of being Greek. From showing the absolute loss of one's identity when the lead character loses his village, to the relentless training of the Spartan knights and the depiction of their stand against certain death. When a Spartan knight, a veteran of many wars was told that the Persian army was so vast that the arrows from it's archers would blot out the sun, he said "Good, then we shall do battle in the shade..."

It's not known for sure how many men Xerxes of Persia had with him, some say 100k others say up to 2 million. What is known is history passed down from the allies that King Leonidas released once he knew that the Persians had found away around the pass to flank his position.

What is also known, is that 300 Spartan knights and their allies held this pass for a week. The first attack wave of 10,000 Medes was observed by Xerxes himself from the top of the pass; the Medes seeking revenge from their earlier humiliation at Marathon...a quote from the book...

"The forerank of the enemy collapsed immediately as the first shock hit it; the body-length shields seemed to implode rearward, their anchoring spikes rooted slinging from the earth like tent pins in a gale. The forerank archers were literally bowled off their feet, their wall-like shields caving in upon them like fortress redoubts under the assault of the ram.... The valor of the individual Medes was beyond question, but their light hacking blades were harmless as toys; against the massed wall of Spartan armor, they might as well have been defending themselves with reeds or fennel stalks."

Like I said, one of the best books I've ever read...the orginal book I purchased a couple years ago I passed it off to friends with the only stipulation being that they had to write their name on the inside cover. Last I saw it it was being read in a cafe with over 50 names recorded...

Mook

Anastasoulis
Mortal
posted 09 September 2006 11:31 AM EDT (US)     26 / 26       
hey guys, you're right in what you write about Thermopylae, but I only mentioned it in the context of the discussion about sacrifice.
ForgottenFriend, I remember you well and exactly the point is sacrificing yourself for the many is the essence of nationalism.
BTW, what's the strategy to counter Isis FH?
I play Thor, and it's pretty hard for me to fight it, unless I find his like 10 vils & Pharaoh in a far away gold site, before they put up their fortress with a mass of my RC.

Off topic, there's a movie based on the book about Thermopylae supposed to be coming out next year.

regards


the Elder
"imagination is more important than knowledge."
Albert Einstein
You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Hop to:    

Age of Mythology Heaven | HeavenGames