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Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy and General Discussion » Unit combinations
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Topic Subject:Unit combinations
Holy Diver
Mortal
posted 12 July 2007 04:50 PM EDT (US)         
I'm struggling to define a good strategy for unit formations. I'll use Atlantean units for example.

1. I put units and the counter units of what counters them. That's really confusing so example time.

Arcus and Katapelte. Arcus are coutnered by cavalry, Katapelte defend arcus from cavalry. Problem: hand-to-hand katapeltes could run ahead and be killed when hanging back from range is needed.

2. Group units and counter units.

Arcus and Cheiroballistae: both good against infantry. Contarius and Turma: both good against archers etc. Problem: if a counter units against these troops come at you, you're kinda screwed.

3.Group all counter units.

Turma, Cheiroballistae and Katapelte.

If...come at them:

archers: killed by Turma

Infantry: killed by Cheiroballistae

Cavalry: killed by Katapeltes


But that leaves too big of a hole to be exploited; all of the units aren't well-rounded enough to take on EVERYONE.

"Well blow my Gjallarhornid! It's Skeggi Battlehands!"
AuthorReplies:
Jambre
Mortal
posted 12 July 2007 05:08 PM EDT (US)     1 / 9       
using the first strat will reduce upgrading costs compared to last

for the katapeltes you can put them on stand ground to stop them running off

2nd strategy is basically overkill on infantry for cheiro and archers, and i believe cherio are pretty decent vs archers too with their long range and high pierce armour but there isnt any need for two different anti infantry units
contarious and turma could be changed to arcus and contarious with no extra upgrade costs making them more flexable fighters

3rd strategy
are you implying they are coming at you with a similar force of anti archer anti cavalry and anti infantry?
if so best micro should win
i believe its generally better to have a 2 unit army
vs your 3 unit army it will be better upgraded or bigger for same cost and in the outcomes it will be a heavy win for one unit, a minor win for the other and a heavy loss for another (exluding different levels of micro)

hope this helps
DeathAndPain
Mortal
posted 13 July 2007 04:21 AM EDT (US)     2 / 9       
Holy Diver, you are looking for the uncounterable unit combination. It does not exist. Good combinations exist, and your first one is an example, but you will never find a combo that works against everything. For instance, katas/arcusses will be raped by mass huskarls hands down.

And you will find no combination that removes the need for battle micro. If your katas run away, then you failed in conducting your troops. Use defensive stance so that they will fight nearby attackers but not stray too far from the arcusses that they are supposed to guard. Manually give them orders to attack enemy cavalry that is incoming e.g. from the rear.
for the katapeltes you can put them on stand ground to stop them running off
Bad advice. The katas will stand idle and watch the arcusses being slain right besides them. They will only attack if an enemy unit happens to actually touch them (stands right adjacent). But if an enemy attacks the adjacent arcus, and the enemy unit is standing 1mm away, the kata will not intervene.

Darkness is a state of mind
Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
Devil_Exile
Mortal
posted 13 July 2007 04:44 AM EDT (US)     3 / 9       
Whoa, slow down. I'm kinda puzzled myself about what you wanna know. I assume, you want to know a combination of units that can't be countered by anything? Like DeathandPain said, there isn't reallly a foolproof combination of units, or otherwise everyone would be using that combination.

However, there are certain combinations that have very little resistance at certain times. For example, my
Nemean Rex/Hypaspists combination against Atlanteans that I've been preaching on about in several threads.

As you can see, there isn't really an effiecient counter against it until the Mythic Age, where the Fanatics, come to play, but still, you can create Hade's Gastraphetes to counter them.

So really, there is no 'perfect' unit, that counters everything( except maybe Gaia herself or Osiris) at all. That's what Makes AOM TT fun. You have to change your tactics and units to wipe away your enemies, and they have to do the same. How boring would it be, to just have 1 perfect unit everyone uses, that has no counter?
TTK_GeneralNoob
Mortal
posted 13 July 2007 04:50 AM EDT (US)     4 / 9       
Thoth Elephants/Mercs and Ptah Axeman make a very capable combo

Btw I wouldn't go Arcus and Cheiroballistae :S suck hard combo

"The next turn I attacked those that had been attatched, fiendishly fracturing the friendly faction fraction"
-Wartrain.

"Why not do the exciting thing and sit back, boom to a rag and use flaming weapons? - Who would have thought a Thor player could show this level of innovation?"
-Vagabond Tom.

[This message has been edited by TTK_GeneralNoob (edited 07-13-2007 @ 05:08 AM).]

Fried Egg Head
Mortal
posted 13 July 2007 07:20 AM EDT (US)     5 / 9       
I may be dumb, but when I'm greek I pick the unit that I want to mainly focus on (dicated by the choice of greek god).

Then I consider what their main counter is and produce the best unit to counter it's counter.

i.e.

Zeus: Hoplites + (Peltast or Hippikon)

Posiden: Hippikon + (Hypaspist or Toxotes)

Hades: Toxotes + (Prodromos or Hoplite)

Plus of course , will suppliment these with heroes and myth units.

This way, I need only focus on two unit types and their upgrades and I can pretty much counter any combination of unit sent against me.
Squeoo
Mortal
posted 13 July 2007 11:41 AM EDT (US)     6 / 9       
well fried egg head, with that strategy your doing, for possy add much siege!!

towers/TC/Castles + Crenellations = they see calvary and start spamming 11.
Devil_Exile
Mortal
posted 14 July 2007 08:01 AM EDT (US)     7 / 9       
Quote from Fried Egg Head
I may be dumb, but when I'm greek I pick the unit that I want to mainly focus on
Erm...isn't that the whole point of choosing ANY god? And, it isn't such a wise descision, as most likely, your enemies will predict what unit you're using and counter it quite easily. Sure, use them, but don't make more than 60% of your population of that particular unit. (PS. I go for Hades due to his Minor Gods, rather than his benefits for Archers)
Quote from Fried Egg Head
Zeus: Hoplites + (Peltast or Hippikon)
I don't see much countering happening with this combination in Mythic, against Atlanteans. Fanatic/Contarius will negate this counter yours quite well. (Fanatic vs. Hoplites & Hippikons, Contarius Vs. Peltast)
Quote from Fried Egg Head
Posiden: Hippikon + (Hypaspist or Toxotes)
Err...wouldn't Camels/Chariot Archers see that this plan falls to pieces? (Camels vs. Hippikons & Toxotes, Chariot Archers vs. Hypaspists, I doubt this will happen though, as it's most likely a FH, and you'll still be in Classical, so Camels alone would own this)
Quote from Fried Egg Head
Hades: Toxotes + (Prodromos or Hoplite)
Well...Peltasts or Gastraphetes, with some minor support could render this entirely useless. (Gastras vs. Hoplites, Toxotes, Prodomos with minor support) Also, I think, the Nemean Rex/Hypaspists would be done quite easily.

So, really...there's no 'perfect' counter. *Sorry* ^_^.
Holy Diver
Mortal
posted 14 July 2007 04:00 PM EDT (US)     8 / 9       
Well, not perfect of course, but one that's harder to beat than just throwing a load of Turma against huskarls or something : D

"Well blow my Gjallarhornid! It's Skeggi Battlehands!"
Fried Egg Head
Mortal
posted 16 July 2007 04:27 AM EDT (US)     9 / 9       
Devil_Exile
So, really...there's no 'perfect' counter. *Sorry* ^_^.
Undoubtedly. My combinations were only a general guideline and should obviously be tailored for your particular opposition and circumstances.

I should probably have added that with Greek, at Mythic, your unique units come into play so the above strategies would apply more to Heroic...
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