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Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy and General Discussion » Greeks's countering norse strategy
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Topic Subject:Greeks's countering norse strategy
LightmareNikita
Banned
posted 16 July 2007 09:18 PM EDT (US)         
Alright, so, I've been thinking which greek is best to counter different Norse Strategies.

For Example, A Strategy Mainly used by Thor and Odin.

The greeks usually build a storehouse for both wood and gold. Here come like 10 RC and 1-2 Valkarias chasing after coming for ur wood/gold site, BAM forest fire, now u gotta get those vills to the TC ASAP avoiding the fire and the slices from the RC.

HOW DO I COUNTER THIS?

Walling? The Cavarly breaks through, but could give u some time to get ur hippokins/hoplites/Toxetes there.

This is what i was thinking:

The Anti-Thor/Odin Raiding Cavarly...Raid...by LightmareNikita.

It has some holes in it and can only be done by Poseidon for many reasons which i will explain after.

Technically, boom to Heroic by the 7:50-8:05 minute mark, build 2 stables, get Prodromos and Atalanta out. Both units have a speed of 6.00, but with Poseidon cav. upgrade, prodromos can go 6.60, but that won't matter much unless atalanta is removed from the group. Get Atalanta vs. the Valkaria and the prodromos vs. the cavarly.

This is a boom however, and very vulnerable to a rush which norse do like every game...

This should be done my Poseidon because:

1. Lure to help you boom
2. Prodromos are 10% cheaper and stables are 15% cheaper
3. Atalanta to take out Valkarias
4. Poseidon's Militia to help defend town while raided.

Anyway, I'll need some advice on this
AuthorReplies:
lokiodin
Mortal
posted 16 July 2007 10:04 PM EDT (US)     1 / 18       
I personnaly am a Norse player, so I say that 1. Atalanta would be good, but what are you going to use to destroy their buildings, I usually play Loki and Hersier rush, so you have to take out their buildings fast wich can be hard if units are poring out of them!
LightmareNikita
Banned
posted 16 July 2007 10:11 PM EDT (US)     2 / 18       
I'll also have units pouring in so it won't be hard

And vs. Hersir Rush, Hippolyta leading 20 toxetes+ 10 hoplites, Ownage
Kang_the_Mad
Mortal
posted 16 July 2007 10:12 PM EDT (US)     3 / 18       
Be thankful if a Norse rushes you, because as Greece, you can repel a rush the best out of any civ
LightmareNikita
Banned
posted 16 July 2007 10:18 PM EDT (US)     4 / 18       
That's great Kang the Mang, but u see, i know greeks are good vs. Norse, and it's great that you know that too, BUT BOTH OF US KNOWING THAT DOESN'T HELP ME ONE BIT!!!!!

I need strategy, i need advice, i need BO's, I don't need ur opinion...
Kang_the_Mad
Mortal
posted 16 July 2007 10:21 PM EDT (US)     5 / 18       
There's nothing really to know. Scout for his forward base and cast Pestilence. Then just get a hero, your cyclops and some cav and overrun him. Plus, not only are your men vastly superior to his, also your buildings have much more hitpoints, so it'll take a lot more for it to come down. I think you might be confusing a forward build+raiding with rushing. Stopping cav raiders is easy enough, just up your towers and get crenaltions. Pestilence also helps in this respect, because you can slow down his production facilities quite well with this gp.

[This message has been edited by Kang_the_Mad (edited 07-16-2007 @ 10:24 PM).]

LightmareNikita
Banned
posted 16 July 2007 10:33 PM EDT (US)     6 / 18       
Yeah, but a Poseidon going through Ares just isn't right...but after crushing his Base, it's over...so, i need practice in that area
a_game_a_win
Mortal
posted 16 July 2007 10:38 PM EDT (US)     7 / 18       
A 7:55 heroic is a fh, not a booming one. Imo greek should classical fight cause greek rape norse in classic. Just go full Calvary and raid. he will go full ulfsarks (if he doesn't know how bad they suck) and lose or start a raid war with you. The latter is more likely.
lokiodin
Mortal
posted 16 July 2007 10:45 PM EDT (US)     8 / 18       
I know that Ulfserks are weak, but don't they beat up calvary?
Tankster3
Mortal
posted 16 July 2007 10:46 PM EDT (US)     9 / 18       
lightmare you've played me and to be honest I suck compared to others (i'm 1635 ish) but to be honest as Thor I could have a bad start, up at 5:00 and be raiding/rushing by 6:30 easy. With Odin if I start good I could FH by 6:30 and be pumping Jarls by 7:00-7:30 (ish)

The only thing I can think of is to help you out is
1. split up your gold and wood storehouse/villies
2. split them up futher with maybe 2 (or more) wood places
3. start raiding them before they attack your forest?
4. find and harras his ulfsark. might slow him down a little

sorry if I couldn't help that much. I'd be glad to forest fire raid you anytime ingame to help you out.

Peace - Tankster3
a_game_a_win
Mortal
posted 16 July 2007 10:57 PM EDT (US)     10 / 18       
Nope, the only classical units that beat Greek Calvary is the hoplite and murmillo/katapelts. But eggy and norse are screwed if they try making a spearmen army or ulfsark army.

That's why I believe Poseidon is the Isis counter. Quick Hippikons can quickly get to other gold mines, are strong and can take down a miggy no problem. Then cf will kill the isis player if you get it between a/e (hard but doable with huge payoff)
Kang_the_Mad
Mortal
posted 16 July 2007 11:06 PM EDT (US)     11 / 18       
I use Hersirs as Loki to stop cavalry. Seems to work alright, especially with HoT
lokiodin
Mortal
posted 16 July 2007 11:22 PM EDT (US)     12 / 18       
How do you beat Greek calvary as Egyption/Norse than?
Kang_the_Mad
Mortal
posted 17 July 2007 01:01 AM EDT (US)     13 / 18       
Thor can use swine array, Odin can use Jarls. I dunno about eggy
Pdroo
Banned
posted 17 July 2007 01:51 AM EDT (US)     14 / 18       
this wont work......

Id suggest getting tower ups + crenellations or w/e, wall important passages, place ur buildings to screw his pathing and raid him first, making him go defensive...
Salient
Mortal
posted 17 July 2007 03:15 AM EDT (US)     15 / 18       
ok. This is not too hard. 5 min Hermes.

on a hunting map get hunting dogs then:

6 vills hunting
3 vills wood
3 vills gold (don't get housed)
More vills to food until you can advance. Then switch them around so you have 8 food, 5 wood, 4 gold, 1 favor. Get pickaxe and handaxe while advancing to classic. Have the favor guy make some little walls so it's hard for him to raid you.

Make 2 stables and 1 archery range. Autoque troops and don't get housed.

Make the first 2 vills to wood then autoque to gold. Later put on some more food.

be aggressive and raid with your cav. Defend at first with your archers.

[This message has been edited by Salient (edited 07-17-2007 @ 03:34 AM).]

yoma
Banned
posted 17 July 2007 05:11 AM EDT (US)     16 / 18       
its so easy.....
you just go hips and tox.
the norse will go TA and RC.

classical greek army > classical norse army

full hips would rape his army as hips >TA and Hips >rc

unless it is loki, and then he may HoT hensir raid. then make tox.

tox are OP.
TTK_GeneralNoob
Mortal
posted 17 July 2007 09:06 AM EDT (US)     17 / 18       
"Technically, boom to Heroic by the 7:50-8:05 minute mark, build 2 stables, get Prodromos and Atalanta out."

I don't think with that time and with 1 tc that can be called 'booming.'

Ok, prodomos -> Only good vs RC, and cost a lot of food.

Atlanta -> fast yes, weak and expensive. Ranged hero would be better IMO just because she will last longer.

You're next problem is that you have only 2 stables, how fast are you planning to get an army out?

"1. Lure to help you boom
2. Prodromos are 10% cheaper and stables are 15% cheaper
3. Atalanta to take out Valkarias
4. Poseidon's Militia to help defend town while raided."

Yup lure is useful, I guess. Prodomos I guess that's nice, they still cost a lot of food. Atlantea, well she gets raped. And 1 militia from a house will get raped by 10 RC, so no big help there.

"The greeks usually build a storehouse for both wood and gold. Here come like 10 RC and 1-2 Valkarias chasing after coming for ur wood/gold site, BAM forest fire, now u gotta get those vills to the TC ASAP avoiding the fire and the slices from the RC.

HOW DO I COUNTER THIS?"

Ok, you came up with the above strat just to counter this? Have you ever thought of building 2 storehouses? Or rebuilding the storehouse? Forrest fire is sooo predictable.

1) Collect wood from 2 sites. That way migration is easy.
2) Don't build your gold storehouse near a forrest. (Anyway, there shouldn't be any wood near the storehouse if your vills have been chopping the wood around it, so I don't see your problem here :S)
3) Houses around towers, walls to make life difficult (and to give you a huge warning) I'd advise getting the tower upgrade and crennalations later, you need to spend your resources for military to attack him offensively.
4) Use some micro. If you see a valkyrie coming in your LOS move your vills away from the forrest.

Go with what Salient says and be agressive. I might even suggest something different and go 1 archery range, a military academy, and 1 stable. The combo is solid and hard to counter. Vs. Norse try to focus slightly more on hoplites. RC > Hips when it comes down to pop wise. Tox are excellent, but make sure you don't aq them because you'll end up with too many. Hoplites, backed with toxotes, with some Hipps is the way to go in classical IHMO, unless you want to go centaur/hip raid.

OK how to counter cavalry?

Atty -> Katapeltes

Eggy -> Horus Spearmen, Thoth Elephants (they beat everything lol) and even normal spearmen. I used to think normal spearmen suck, but they have excellent pathing, do not underestimate them! (of course don't use vs Thoth Eles!)

Norse -> Bragi Ulfs, perhaps Odin Jarls.

Greeks -> Prodomos, perhaps Hoplites vs anything but Thoth eles.

And all have Cren. Towers ^^

"The next turn I attacked those that had been attatched, fiendishly fracturing the friendly faction fraction"
-Wartrain.

"Why not do the exciting thing and sit back, boom to a rag and use flaming weapons? - Who would have thought a Thor player could show this level of innovation?"
-Vagabond Tom.

[This message has been edited by TTK_GeneralNoob (edited 07-17-2007 @ 09:09 AM).]

VB_WhiplashJC
Mortal
posted 17 July 2007 09:19 AM EDT (US)     18 / 18       
listen to salient.

www.vbclan.net - Aussie/Kiwi AoT and AoE3 clan
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