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Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy and General Discussion » Thor Dwarven Gold mine
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Topic Subject:Thor Dwarven Gold mine
Lord_Richjp
Mortal
posted 24 August 2007 05:31 AM EDT (US)         
Recently I have read quite a few Thor BOs, and most say to cast the GP right at the beginning of the game at the TC. Is the saved walk time to the TC really so much better than the extra safe 500, or possibly more gold from a safe mine later in the game?

I assume the BOs are probably right, but it seems strange to me.

Edit: What is the gather rate for dwarfs on gold and how much can they carry?

My grandmother slaps harder than the Agra Fort shoots. And she's dead. ~ Ender_Ward

By the same token, if I attempt to operate the mouse using nothing but my butt-cheeks, micro will also come down to "luck." ~ Beatnikjoe

[This message has been edited by Lord_RichJP (edited 08-24-2007 @ 05:55 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
empireofages
AoMH Review Team
posted 24 August 2007 05:48 AM EDT (US)     1 / 9       
dwarven mine gives thor an early boost, if you do not use it in archaic age you will throw one of your advantages away.

Noobs do not excist.
There are just players and better players.
TTK_GeneralNoob
Mortal
posted 24 August 2007 05:50 AM EDT (US)     2 / 9       
I think dwarven mine is an advantage in any age

"The next turn I attacked those that had been attatched, fiendishly fracturing the friendly faction fraction"
-Wartrain.

"Why not do the exciting thing and sit back, boom to a rag and use flaming weapons? - Who would have thought a Thor player could show this level of innovation?"
-Vagabond Tom.

Black_Oni
Mortal
posted 24 August 2007 06:00 AM EDT (US)     3 / 9       
Lord_RichJP shouldnt u change the 5th word in ur second(green line) of your signature

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DeathAndPain
Mortal
posted 24 August 2007 06:37 AM EDT (US)     4 / 9       
Lord_RichJP, using the Thor mine right away will allow you to use your initial dwarves on the resource that they are best at right away. Thor dwarves can be used on any resource early on, but remember that they train 2 seconds longer in return for having an extra-fast gold gathering rate, while on the other resources even Thor dwarves barely gather (almost) as fast as gatherers. So by not using your initial dwarves on gold right away, you give away their advantage, even though you did not have to wait the extra 2 seconds for them.

Also, by using the Thor mine near your TC you can afford getting another ox cart far later, meaning that you can get more vills earlier. Gathering from stragglers is a poor alternative: 2 vills with a cart already gather wood faster than 3 gatherers on a nearby straggler, but without cart.

Later in the game, you will rarely encounter situations when you actually need the Thor mine, despite the fact that it will contain more gold then. There are enough gold mines out there that you can gather from, and when you have been contained by your enemy to an extent that you can no longer gather safely at any remote mine, then you are pretty much done for anyway, and the Thor mine will only delay your doom.

Lategame, when gold mines are becoming scarce, you should set up a proper trading route anyway. A pack of 20 dwarves with all gold ups kill a 6000er mine in no time, and you typically have high expenses in mythic age, so the gold will be used up quickly. The mine is nice to have, but you will have to set up proper trading anyway if you hope to prevail. It is usually no problem to do it early enough so that you can do without the Thor mine. Most often you will forget to cast it anyway when (if) you hit mythic age. The gain is simply in no healthy relation to doing without the far better economical start that the archaic mine allows for. Mark my words: If you do not use it in archaic age, you will not use it at all in more than 50% of your games (i.e. waste it).
Edit: What is the gather rate for dwarfs on gold and how much can they carry?
Search this forum for threads of the author xentelian, then follow the link in his signature to his AoE3 page. Search this page closely for the link to his AoM package (yes, it is there!), and download it. You will find an excellent Excel sheet with all sorts of statistics on AoM, including what you are asking for, as well as invaluable other stuff for AoM (including TT).

Darkness is a state of mind
Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
AdZyZ
Mortal
posted 24 August 2007 06:49 AM EDT (US)     5 / 9       
DaP, do you use xentilian's tool tips?

-[Hello..
VB_WhiplashJC
Mortal
posted 24 August 2007 07:06 AM EDT (US)     6 / 9       
dwarven mine is faster, and you dont need a ox cart. lets you get pig sticker straight after hd.

www.vbclan.net - Aussie/Kiwi AoT and AoE3 clan
Lord_Richjp
Mortal
posted 24 August 2007 08:50 AM EDT (US)     7 / 9       
Thanks for the replies! I didn't expect such an in depth answer.
Lord_RichJP shouldnt u change the 5th word in ur second(green line) of your signature
Close your eyes when you get to that part and you wont read it

I didn't realise xentelian did Aom, I use his mods on Aoe3, that should make things easier.

My grandmother slaps harder than the Agra Fort shoots. And she's dead. ~ Ender_Ward

By the same token, if I attempt to operate the mouse using nothing but my butt-cheeks, micro will also come down to "luck." ~ Beatnikjoe

[This message has been edited by Lord_RichJP (edited 08-24-2007 @ 08:53 AM).]

invent00r
Mortal
posted 24 August 2007 09:09 AM EDT (US)     8 / 9       
Is the saved walk time to the TC really so much better than the extra safe 500, or possibly more gold from a safe mine later in the game?
Yes, the main reason is because it indeed helps Thor starting economy. The second reason is, has you said yourself, the possibility that you won't be needing a new gold mine.
So instead of wasting your god power by not using it, you will be always taking full advantage of it.

Dwarf gathering rate for gold is 1.09 and he can carry 10 of gold. Upgrades will increase their gathering rate and capacity.
Click here for all gathering rates.

-invent00r

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DragonQ
SC2H Seraph
posted 24 August 2007 10:13 AM EDT (US)     9 / 9       
I'm as sure as someone who doesn't play Norse can be that Dwarven Mine DOESN'T make anything gather faster from it than from normal mines (unlike Gaia's Forest) and also, that Dwarves carry 15 Gold with no upgrades (Gatherers/Labourers/Gatherers carry 10).

Take my love, take my land, take me where I cannot stand.
I don't care, I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me.
Take me out to the black, tell them I ain't comin' back.
Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me.
There's no place I can be, since I found Serenity.
But you can't take the sky from me...
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