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Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy and General Discussion » Zooming and rotating are out?!
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Topic Subject:Zooming and rotating are out?!
Stormboy
Mortal
posted 17 January 2002 06:37 AM EDT (US)         
This may be old news, but I hadn't seen it mentioned on this board.

Quoted from ES_Swinger at PAOE:

I BELIEVE, in the scenario editor you can play aroudn with the zoom and view all you want. In game though, having the zoom really isnt useful-you always want to play at the farthest out you can go. And rotation really isnt used much either-it really screws up your perspecive when you rotate the camera around. And imagine if one player decided to zoom all the way out to a satelite view of the world-that would mean EVERY single unit on the board would have to be drawn for him, meaning INCREDIBLE slowdown in the game. It just works allaround better to limit the camera control for mutliplayer games.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm slightly disappointed about this.
We'll just have to hope the default zoom is wide enough then. Not like in "that other 3D RTS", where you can't see half your units in a large naval battle.

AuthorReplies:
Last_Knight
Mortal
posted 17 January 2002 06:51 AM EDT (US)     1 / 25       
Maybe the zoom is disabled only in multiplayer games.


The Last Knight
Grasshoppers are cheap, nutritious, tasety,Kosher and easy to dissect
1ArCHeR1
Mortal
posted 17 January 2002 07:28 AM EDT (US)     2 / 25       
That's what he said.

"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun, than you can with just a kind word." -The Coolest New Yorker (Robert DeNiro)
<A><R>
vladimir87
Mortal
posted 17 January 2002 07:37 AM EDT (US)     3 / 25       
Good morning everyone,

That could cause soem serious lag though. Then again, a meteor shower might slow down teh game a bit too :P ...

TheShadowDawn
Mortal
posted 17 January 2002 07:59 AM EDT (US)     4 / 25       
I think what Swinger is saying is that you can you Rotate and Zoom, but that it's not worth it; and that in Multiplayer it will be a real pain.

TheShædøwDåwn
If you're like me, then it's possible you're a clone generated from my stolen DNA. I suggest you turn yourself in for destruction immediately.
Stormboy
Mortal
posted 17 January 2002 11:18 AM EDT (US)     5 / 25       
The quote from Swinger is an anwser to the question "Why will we not be able to play around with zoom and perspective view?" from the "Questions to ES Iron & Swinger" thread at the PAOE AoM forum.
From what I can tell, zooming & rotating in MP is either out or at least severely restricted.
Can someone from ES please clarify this?
First_Timothy
Mortal
posted 17 January 2002 12:40 PM EDT (US)     6 / 25       
David Rippy says in the XGR interview that the view is currently fixed during gameplay, but that it may be a feature that can be turned on and off in the console settings. If you want to hear it yourself it is in Part III around the 3:00 minute mark.

»»─ First_Timothy ─> 1 Timothy 1:5 <─ The goal is love. ─««
Real
Mortal
posted 17 January 2002 02:01 PM EDT (US)     7 / 25       
I hope, think, pray, believe, want that it isn't impossible, also not in Multi player.

Imagine if you're a bad AoM player and you're playing online and you're loosing, then also loosing would be much more fun if you then could at least be able to see from other angles how you're loosing, so that this also would become kinda fun.


Where's paradise?...............AoM is....In war there're only loosers!
Paradise is in your heart - ..gonna come! Love is the soul's blood!
open your heart and you'll be in paradise!..There's no uncertainty, there's only hope!
What's the difference between a raven?...What's yellow and hangs in a tree?
Nothing...its legs are both equal, all about the right one!...=> A blue couch!
Real may say he leaves...but be sure, he'll come back!
SoR_Anarchy
Mortal
posted 17 January 2002 05:15 PM EDT (US)     8 / 25       
Just limit how far you can zoom out. It's not that hard. I really don't see how this is a problem.

God Bless America.

I am the state.

mikey
Mortal
posted 17 January 2002 08:21 PM EDT (US)     9 / 25       
I would be severly dissapointed if we didn't atleast have some zooming/rotating. I think that if zooming is to be included the most important things are a "return to defealt" option and the option to turn off all zooming rotating for multiplayer.

The first casualty in war is the truth.

Alcohol is the cause and solution of all lifes problems. - Homer Simpson

History is always written by the victors

zam zap
Mortal
posted 17 January 2002 08:46 PM EDT (US)     10 / 25       
I still think that they should put the zoom in because:

1.) I love playing EE with the zoom
2.) Who ever said you had to use it, it could just be an extra
3.) I dont zoom in when im doing my daily business, only when im battleing

ZAM WILL ZAPATH!!

Gerry
Mortal
posted 18 January 2002 08:18 AM EDT (US)     11 / 25       
Stormboy: "I don't know about you guys, but I'm slightly disappointed about this.
We'll just have to hope the default zoom is wide enough then. Not like in "that other 3D RTS", where you can't see half your units in a large naval battle."

-> That's it !!!

WhoAskedU
Mortal
posted 18 January 2002 12:23 PM EDT (US)     12 / 25       

Quoted from zam zap:

2.) Who ever said you had to use it, it could just be an extra

yes, that is true, but in multiplayer zooming out really far would make EVERYONE in that game to lag. so i think it is in the best intrest for locking zoom and rotate...


Quoted from real:

then also loosing would be much more fun if you then could at least be able to see from other angles how you're loosing

Hey! who ever said that zoom and rotate would be locked when you go to view the recorded game? So you could still see how bad you sucked from diffrent angles and from diffrent distances?


At my signal unleash HELL.
God Bless America, Land of the Free!!!
•••winner of "2002 AoM Forum's Coolest Name Award"•••
•••••••Another Fabulous Post by WhoAskedU!!•••••••
People just complain about other people's Signatures because
they aren't smart enough to make their own.
Real
Mortal
posted 18 January 2002 01:01 PM EDT (US)     13 / 25       
Yeah, but it wouldn't make loosing funnier!

Where's paradise?...............AoM is....In war there're only loosers!
Paradise is in your heart - ..gonna come! Love is the soul's blood!
open your heart and you'll be in paradise!..There's no uncertainty, there's only hope!
What's the difference between a raven?...What's yellow and hangs in a tree?
Nothing...its legs are both equal, all about the right one!...=> A blue couch!
Real may say he leaves...but be sure, he'll come back!
1ArCHeR1
Mortal
posted 18 January 2002 05:03 PM EDT (US)     14 / 25       
We don't want to zoom OUT. We want to zoom IN. That would speed the game up (less units to render)!

Just take the camera angle you have it set as, then let us zoom IN.

BTW, is the reason rotating is out the same in EE (buildings don't have backs)?


"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun, than you can with just a kind word." -The Coolest New Yorker (Robert DeNiro)
<A><R>
ES_DeathShrimp
Immortal
posted 18 January 2002 06:08 PM EDT (US)     15 / 25       
The way we currently play, which has a strong chance of being the way we ship, is to let players zoom and rotate even in MP. What Swinger pointed out is that players rarely do it anyway.

Why? In AOM, you don't have to play the camera. (In many of our games, you don't even have time!) Your units will never be obstructed where you can't see them, and no one is ever going to surprise you by attacking from an angle you can't see (why that sounds reasonably cool, I think camera control schemes are a long way off from making that manageable).

Players who resign or get beat, or those playing single player, do often use the camera, just to get a cool shot of a particular scene. Cinematics, of course, make a lot of use of the camera.

SoR_Anarchy
Mortal
posted 18 January 2002 07:08 PM EDT (US)     16 / 25       
Good to hear, thanks DS.

God Bless America.

I am the state.

Stormboy
Mortal
posted 18 January 2002 08:03 PM EDT (US)     17 / 25       
Thanks for clearing that up, DeathShrimp.
It looks like we'll be allowed to figure out for ourselves whether or not zooming is useful in MP.
teutonicknight
Mortal
posted 18 January 2002 08:14 PM EDT (US)     18 / 25       
Yeah! Zooming is not out.

Copyright © 2000-2002 teutonicknight LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Immhotep
Mortal
posted 18 January 2002 08:57 PM EDT (US)     19 / 25       

Quoted from Captn_Kidd:

I think there's been a miscommunication somewhere.

The info at E3 was about whether camera controls would be required to play, optional to the user, or locked during gameplay.

We decided prior to E3 that making it so that you needed to use the camera in order to play well would be a huge mistake, so clearly the game had to be playable without ever touching the camera control.

We were also working under the plan that in game, the camera would probably be locked. We haven't announced anything since then.

AoM is a real 3-D engine, so camera controls are very important in the scenario editor, in cinematic sequences, etc. There are quite a few different camera positions, angles and zoom levels in the screen shots and movies we've released.

Finally, even in a fixed camera perspective, 3D is different than 2D. Two of many possible examples: Trees, units and buildings on the near side are larger than ones at the far end of the field of view. Units can turn smoothly through 360 degrees, rather than snapping in 45 degree increments.

As always, our goal is to take advantage of all that 3D has to offer for immersion and beautiful graphics, while not adding complexity to the gameplay.

- the info was found HERE

Those who don't know who Captn_Kidd is, he's one of the designers at ES. Hope that clears up your doubts and concern

Imperial Wizard
Mortal
posted 18 January 2002 11:00 PM EDT (US)     20 / 25       
1) What if I was a poor sport losing horribly and decided to hae a satllite view to cause insane lag and force the other guy's resignation?

2) If I was losing a multiplayer game, I would probably zoom in such a way as to have a soldier's view of the battle, the camera parallell and close to the ground. Then I would move it around pretending I was a lost hoplite scattered from my phalanx


Not all old men in ragged coats are bad old men; some are bone-and-bottle men, and have little dogs of their own, some are gardeners, and a few, a very few, are wizards prowling around on a holiday looking for something to do.
Immhotep
Mortal
posted 19 January 2002 00:24 AM EDT (US)     21 / 25       
Cool sig, Imperial Wizard . Let me try to solve the puzzle. Hmmm…let’s see…there are only 2 possible starting possibilities for the first statement: True & False.
_________________________________
#1 - Start with a True statement
_________________________________

If The statement below is false is True
Then The statement above is true is a False statement.

Thus, since The statement above is true is False
Then The statement below is false is False also.

Conclusion: Both are False

_________________________________
#2 - start with a False statement
_________________________________

If The statement below is false is False
Then The statement above is true is True

Thus, since The statement below is false is True
Then The statement above is true is False.

Ultimately, that would make The statement below is false False

Conclusion: Both are False
---------------

No matter whether the first statement you start out with is True or False, it would ultimately leads to the same ending: False . Muahahaha (I know I'm kewl! They didn't call me "Immhotep" for no reason )

(Edited) "You know I'm bad, I'm bad, you know it....
. Who's bad!?!"
- Michael Jackson

[This message has been edited by Immhotep (edited 01-19-2002 @ 00:29 AM).]

1ArCHeR1
Mortal
posted 20 January 2002 02:03 AM EDT (US)     22 / 25       
Both can't be false, because if the top statement if false, then the bottem statement would be true, contrary to the fact that the first statement is false. It's called a paradox. It can never be solved, because it is set up that way. It's just like the old go back in time and killing your past self thing.

"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun, than you can with just a kind word." -The Coolest New Yorker (Robert DeNiro)
<A><R>
Dark Age warrior
Mortal
posted 20 January 2002 07:29 AM EDT (US)     23 / 25       
AOM in 2d?

I would seriously dislike that...
I'm glad that it's still in the game.

Real
Mortal
posted 20 January 2002 08:00 AM EDT (US)     24 / 25       
Yeah, I still can have a lot o' fun while loosing in MP, thx DS for giving us these info!

*falls on knees and kisses floor*


Where's paradise?...............AoM is....In war there're only loosers!
Paradise is in your heart - ..gonna come! Love is the soul's blood!
open your heart and you'll be in paradise!..There's no uncertainty, there's only hope!
What's the difference between a raven?...What's yellow and hangs in a tree?
Nothing...its legs are both equal, all about the right one!...=> A blue couch!
Real may say he leaves...but be sure, he'll come back!

[This message has been edited by Real (edited 01-20-2002 @ 08:01 AM).]

Sir_Deraj
Mortal
posted 20 January 2002 09:59 PM EDT (US)     25 / 25       
It wouldnt be that major not having a zoom in and out for multi player.As long as the default set is big enough.The view for AOK I found was fine.I have EE and the only tiemI ever zoom in close was when I was fooling around or lookinga t the graphics something you would only to in the scenario editor.Sure maybe 3 sets of views would be nice a default view and then one that zooms even farther out and then one that goes closer that way every player could get a choice but If it causes more lag it definently isnt worth it for multi I mean sure its nice to have a zoom in for a battle but you cna do that in the scenario editor instead.I play EE on multi and almost neevr use that feature.

I came
I saw
I conquered
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