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Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy and General Discussion » How to get used to playing Supremacy?
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Topic Subject:How to get used to playing Supremacy?
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Jo93
Mortal
posted 14 September 2008 12:52 PM EDT (US)         
Hi, I'm a VERY old AoM player (I think I got it when the game was first released) and I used to play Deathmatch (with Norse) a LOT.
I was rated something decent at one point but I've completely forgoton what it was (it wasn't top 100 or anything though.)

After about 4 years (so I have nearly forgotton everything) I've decided to start playing again but with Supremacy and a different god probably (although I haven't decided.

At the moment I'm working my way through the campaign, which I never did when I played before.

I'd like to know if the game has changed much in any particular way, and some tips for Deathmatch players trying Supremacy for the first time.

Other than that, I'd just like to say Hi to all the forum members as well!

PS, I don't own the Titans expansion pack.

Thanks

Returned to AoM after about 4 years
Strictly vanilla player... only..
AuthorReplies:
YunSun
Mortal
posted 13 October 2008 11:46 PM EDT (US)     91 / 122       
I watched some recs of Zesu and Aol_Magyar(IMO best Zeus player ever) and they dont get those upgrades and they seem to battle just fine

I get it thought as soon as i Hit mythic age, but i stop my flow of villagers for a bit and if they did get those upgrades it would slow ur advance time down IMOH
Arus_II
Mortal
posted 14 October 2008 00:49 AM EDT (US)     92 / 122       
As for the axemen vs Myrmidons u are forgetting they u also have ur Greek Heroes with u and Jason, Heracles, Bellerphon and Odysseus with u and they can make quick work of his axemen. No, axeman make quick work of heroes. And while your heroes are busy fighting axes, his MU will rape your myrms.
Ceasefire should be more than enough because most players will retreat when this happens and u should be in heroic age by then and then quickly into mythic age.
Greeks should generally be in heroic age faster because they have an early economic advantage and since u r not getting those economic upgrades unlike Egyptians u should be able to advance quicker.
Wrong, a eggy player gets those upgrades to get to Heroic faster, why should a Zeus get there earlier then they do?
And if you re going to Heroic faster without ups, an eggy can do that too.
And @ ceasefire, you just cant advance to mythic AND get those barracks/temples up AND make myrms AND research some upgrades! Whe you CF under advance to mythic, you will be crushed when you get there, you arent safe when youre in mythic!
YunSun
Mortal
posted 14 October 2008 02:30 AM EDT (US)     93 / 122       
ok, I still dont get how his axemen will rape Zeus' heroes they only have 4 Hack attack and ur heroes arent attacking alone ur going with your force of myrmidons and collosi when attacking him. FM requires alot of micro.

As for myth units destroying ur myrmidons the only MU that he will probably get are the ones that are given to him for free.
Since bellerphon has such a high hack attack, fast speed and the fact that his special rocks he can easily make quick work of any Eggy MU.

As for the advancing time it should be easier for Zeus to hit heroic faster the fact of early economic advantage. Isis can gather gold extremely quickly due to prosperity but will be slower in food. Ra can get food quickly and because his farms cost a good amount of gold he will be lacking it in order to advance very quickly. And as for Set he has no economic GPs to help him advance faster and since Eggy villies are weaker at gathering on u should be able to advance faster than him.

And as for Ceasefire most Egyptians won't be attacking you until 10-11 min. into the game since most of them will be FH boomers. By the time he attacks you should be close to mythic age or in Mythic age already and Ceasefire can be used then. First hero to train would be Bellerphon and him given with ur Free MU should be enough to defend while u train ur quick army to battle him. And u also have the bolt GP to make an instant death to any MU giving u a threat.
DeathAndPain
Mortal
posted 14 October 2008 03:19 AM EDT (US)     94 / 122       
Greek heroes > all, that is a fact. However, if that alone would suffice, then the Greek race would be invincible. Following your line of arguing, you could train any random units and argue that you win because whatever counters your units will be defeated by your heroes. You would not need myrms for this.

But as we all know, Greeks can only have a maximum of 4 heroes, and that just does not make enough of a difference when the rest of your army is countered. And axemen are a very hard counter to myrmidons! Also make sure to pay particular attention to the game version that you are playing. In the obsolete (vanilla) version of the game, myrms are 2 pop and therefore overpowered. In TT they are 3 pop, making them much more balanced. But either way, they lose to Eggy axemen.
As for myth units destroying ur myrmidons the only MU that he will probably get are the ones that are given to him for free.
I do not see how Eggy should fail to train a single myth unit while you advance all the way to mythic age... of course a good Eggy will attack you before you get there, catching you with your pants down. Then again, in TT the beast slayer upgrade can make sure myrms do not lose to MU. They still lose horribly to axemen though.
Isis can gather gold extremely quickly due to prosperity but will be slower in food.
?? Reason being? To the contrary, when hunt is done Isis will farm faster thanks to Bast, while Zeus has no such upgrade.
since Eggy villies are weaker at gathering
The slower gathering rate on one resource is compensated by pharaoh empowerment on the other, so you can shift your vills accordingly. Prosperity is an added bonus that Zeus has nothing to compensate for. Same goes for Bast special econ upgrades as well as saving money on all econ ups. Also remember that all Eggy buildings are cheaper than their Greek counterparts.
And as for Ceasefire most Egyptians won't be attacking you until 10-11 min. into the game since most of them will be FH boomers. By the time he attacks you should be close to mythic age or in Mythic age already and Ceasefire can be used then. First hero to train would be Bellerphon and him given with ur Free MU should be enough to defend while u train ur quick army to battle him.
By 10-11 min an Eggy can have a fullsize army. You really believe that Bellerophon and a lone MU can stop a whole invading army with lots of chariots and a couple priests and elephants? Think again... The larger army has the lesser losses, so he will not even suffer casualties when killing these. Even Bellerophon dies in no time when a whole chariot army focus-fires on him. After that, the elephants make short work of your base. Not to mention anc/ecl. (And no, you cannot cease anc/ecl unless the Eggy player is a n00b.)
As for the axemen most of the time they won't even bother with them since they will be usually massing Midgol units first.
Which is smart, knowing that you cannot train any myrms before mythic age. But by then, any decent Eggy will make barracks, because Zeus training hops and myrms is not really much of a surprise, is it? And axemen train faster than myrms and are cheaper on top. Of course, if the Eggy is an idiot and insists in winning it with migdol units alone, then myrms have their value - although they die to chariots as well.

Darkness is a state of mind
Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
Dudis
Mortal
posted 14 October 2008 05:05 AM EDT (US)     95 / 122       
myrmidons beat chariots 1v1

"Quotes are nothing but inspiration for the uninspired"
72% of people agree with me when I say 28% of people disagree with me.
"I'll remove the clit at the end" - Rotaretilbo
" I just snapped off my penis thinking it was a nk" - BeezleBub
"Im a transexual STFU" - Briguy
DeathAndPain
Mortal
posted 14 October 2008 05:09 AM EDT (US)     96 / 122       
Provided they can ever reach them... hops also beat tox 1v1. Does that mean that tox are bad vs hops? No, because 1v1 is not a realistic scenario. In higher numbers on both sides, and with a decent meat shield, archers are superior.

In the case of chariots vs myrmidons, the chariot will even win 1v1, contrary to what you said. In fact, the CA will win this without taking even a single blow. It outspeeds and vastly outranges the myrmidon, so the myrm will never ever get the chance to land a single hit while the chariot is killing it from the distance.

Chariots are huge-range archers with good speed. No way can myrmidons win against that.

Darkness is a state of mind
Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
Dudis
Mortal
posted 14 October 2008 05:26 AM EDT (US)     97 / 122       
My test wasnt actually fair cuz i just put a myrmidon 5 range from CA and see who would win

"Quotes are nothing but inspiration for the uninspired"
72% of people agree with me when I say 28% of people disagree with me.
"I'll remove the clit at the end" - Rotaretilbo
" I just snapped off my penis thinking it was a nk" - BeezleBub
"Im a transexual STFU" - Briguy
empireofages
AoMH Review Team
posted 14 October 2008 12:31 PM EDT (US)     98 / 122       
i just put a myrmidon 5 range from CA
not a realistic scenario.
.

Noobs do not excist.
There are just players and better players.

[This message has been edited by empireofages (edited 10-14-2008 @ 12:32 PM).]

outsky2008
Mortal
posted 14 October 2008 01:41 PM EDT (US)     99 / 122       
Can axemen defeat myrms when both sides have archers? Axe are very vulnerable to archers, while myrms are relatively less vulnerable to archers. Will axe die to tox before they can defeat myrms?

A mythic zeus army consisting of myrms, tox, peltasts, Bellerophon, and 2 to 3 Colossus can be very difficult to defeat. Isis may need to abuse mercs and titan to fight such a force.

Off topic: I may be ignorant, but I am very happy to find out siege tower murders Helepolis because hele has poor crush armour, and catapult is quite efficient at killing the long range Gastraphetes. I did the test in vanilla, I'm not sure hele is still ramable in AOT.

[This message has been edited by outsky2008 (edited 10-14-2008 @ 02:34 PM).]

YunSun
Mortal
posted 14 October 2008 02:20 PM EDT (US)     100 / 122       
Yes I agree with most of the threads above to counter Zeus' FM but that tactic is used very often against other Eggy Boomers and quite frankly it works very well.
Arus_II
Mortal
posted 14 October 2008 03:21 PM EDT (US)     101 / 122       
and catapult is quite efficient at killing the long range Gastraphetes
ROFL


Catapult
1. has crush attack (although some pierce too, in fact 10).
2. They have HORRIBLE accuracy.
3. They are too slow to do any tactic.

[This message has been edited by Arus_II (edited 10-14-2008 @ 03:25 PM).]

outsky2008
Mortal
posted 14 October 2008 03:54 PM EDT (US)     102 / 122       
In my test, Catapult kills a Gastraphete in 2 or 3 shots if it hits. Don't underestimate the damage 50 crush and 10 peirce can do to a unit in a single shot.

When fighting a group of stationary backbone Gastraphets/archers, catapult has a better chance of hitting. It may miss the intended target, but instead hit the unintended one.

I don't understand why you say catapult are too slow to do any tactic. Many people here believe catapult is the best siege in the game. You just need other units to support/protect it. Also, there is a tech to improve its speed. It is produced in the cheap siege workshop which you can build everywhere. You can also do roc drop. Sometimes, I like to use a transport ship to protect catapults in watering hole and mediterranean.

[This message has been edited by outsky2008 (edited 10-14-2008 @ 04:27 PM).]

Major_Rackham
Banned
posted 14 October 2008 10:03 PM EDT (US)     103 / 122       
Que?
Arus_II
Mortal
posted 15 October 2008 01:03 AM EDT (US)     104 / 122       
I am not saying that catapults arent good, but they just suck vs human units. Btw, the enemy can avoid those rocks, they move very slow. And you say that 50 crush and 10 pierce are alot of damage, thats not true: 50x0.01(99 crush armour)=0.5, but the minimal damage is always 1. 10 Pierce damage 10x0.45 (FU)= 4.5 So you say that catapults are good vs them? I think the gastras kill you fist: 8 pierce x0.1= 0.8 (minimal damage 1) or crush 6x0.20= 1.2 damage. Well ok, there attack sucks vs catapults, but thats not where they intended to be good at.

But anyway, do you really think that you kill gastras in 3 shots with 4.5 damage? I dont. Thats 3x4.5= 13.5 HP while they have 60 HP. So, your theory is very, very wrong.
outsky2008
Mortal
posted 15 October 2008 01:06 AM EDT (US)     105 / 122       
It is not my theory, I did a test.
Arus_II
Mortal
posted 15 October 2008 01:09 AM EDT (US)     106 / 122       
But how do you explain my maths?
HailToTheOboe
Bitten by a radioactive ostrich
posted 15 October 2008 01:11 AM EDT (US)     107 / 122       
outsky2008
Mortal
posted 15 October 2008 01:53 AM EDT (US)     108 / 122       
In my last test, catapult kills most unupgraded human archer in 2 shots if hit. I said 3 because I thought upgrade may make a difference. I will redo the test tomorrow to check if there is anything wrong. I didn't not consider damage/second before. This seems to be a reasonable explanation.
DeathAndPain
Mortal
posted 15 October 2008 02:36 AM EDT (US)     109 / 122       
Can axemen defeat myrms when both sides have archers? Axe are very vulnerable to archers, while myrms are relatively less vulnerable to archers. Will axe die to tox before they can defeat myrms?
Remember that myrms are 3-pop-units. They still have somewhat higher resistance to archers, also pop-wise, but it surely is not realistic to assume that when both armies are moving up against each other, all axemen die before they ever reach the myrms. The axemen will definitely get the chance to fight the myrms for some time, and in this battle they are hugely favored (myrms do not even get their bonus vs axemen). So by the time the axemen die, the myrms are sufficiently weakened or killed so that the rear archers do the rest.

Also remember that CA outrange and outspeed tox. If the Greek is using only tox, then the CA alone win against both myrms and tox, so they can win the battle even when the axemen are dead. If he is mixing in peltasts, then these peltasts sure are not better vs axemen than CA are against myrms due to poor base damage.

Of course, this is a matter of having the right units, as usual. I think that an axeman/slinger mixture would defeat myrms/tox for obvious reasons.
A mythic zeus army consisting of myrms, tox, peltasts, Bellerophon, and 2 to 3 Colossus can be very difficult to defeat.
So is an Eggy army of phants, axemen, phants, a couple priests, phants, some CA, and phants. Remember that the Greek race basically has no working counter to phants. Myrms can do the job, but this is what the accompanying axemen and CA are there for. Axes/CA kill myrms, while the phants kill the rest.

Phants are not superior to colossi either, but that plays no role if you only have 2-3 of them in your army. It is rather a matter in a colossus spam scenario.
I may be ignorant, but I am very happy to find out siege tower murders Helepolis because hele has poor crush armour
50% is poor crush armor? Okay, it is not as much as most other mobile units have, but your siege towers are melee, and when using melee units against Helepolis, I would rather use some that do hack armor, against which Helepolis armor is just a paltry 5%... plus every race has hack-damage-units with a solid multiplier vs siege. At least in TT.
Pierce damage 10x0.45 (FU)= 4.5
You are comparing FU gastras with stock catapults, which is not a fair comparison. If you make the gastras FU, you should at least give the catapults the engineers upgrade.
Well ok, there attack sucks vs catapults, but thats not where they intended to be good at.
I think this is the key sentence, with the door swinging both ways. Gastras and catapults simply are not meant to be used against each other. Both do horribly against the respective enemy unit. You may compute which would come out on top in a duel, but this is insignificant, because the other events on the battlefield will determine the outcome of the battle. Basically, I see the Greek at a disadvantage here, because he is letting his gastraphetes shoot at units they are crappy against when they could perform well against most other human units, while catapults are near useless against most mobile units, so in the absence of buildings to target it makes little difference whether they shoot at gastras or at other units they are crappy against.

Of course the opposite view is also possible: The Greek has only units that can fight effectively, while part of the Eggy pop is occupied by units that are only good against buildings. When no enemy buildings are present in the area, this effectively means that part of the Eggy pop is practically dead. (but of course, the Eggy should deploy his catas near enemy buildings in the first place, and so on. I digress).

Darkness is a state of mind
Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
outsky2008
Mortal
posted 16 October 2008 00:21 AM EDT (US)     110 / 122       
If the Greek is using only tox, then the CA alone win against both myrms and tox, so they can win the battle even when the axemen are dead.
I hope this is true because isis is my maingod. But I just tested it. Eventhough 2 CA will defeat 3 tox, in large number, tox will defeat CA in equal pop with the same level of upgrade. For example, 12 tox will defeat 8 CA. I agree CA has better range and speed, they can always run away from the tox, and shoot in long range (hit and run). But this is going to take lots of micro, if you want to rely on this to defeat tox. ALso, CA's cannot shoot accurately in long range. The result surprised me, I thought CA will defeat tox.
50% is poor crush armor? Okay, it is not as much as most other mobile units have, but your siege towers are melee, and when using melee units against Helepolis, I would rather use some that do hack armor, against which Helepolis armor is just a paltry 5%... plus every race has hack-damage-units with a solid multiplier vs siege. At least in TT.
True. I did not mean to suggest using siege tower to counter hele in AOT. I was just surprised because a 3pop heroic siege defeat a 5pop mythic siege. Hele has a huge hp, and 15 peirce. Not many units can beat it popwise in AOM, not even unupgraded elephant. In aot, many units can do bonus damage to siege, making things easier.
DeathAndPain
Mortal
posted 16 October 2008 03:24 AM EDT (US)     111 / 122       
But I just tested it. Eventhough 2 CA will defeat 3 tox
You misunderstood me, but I guess I did not express myself clearly enough. The part that you quoted is to be understood in its context. When I said "If the Greek is using only tox", I meant that he is not mixing in any peltasts. At equal pop, I see axemen/chariot kill his frontline myrms faster than myrms/tox kill the frontline axemen, simply because axes counter myrms very hard while myrms lose their bonus when attacking axes. (Remember that due to pop considerations, there will be 50% more axemen than myrms.) With their meat shield dead and a few axes remaining, I am not giving the tox any chance to win this, not without peltasts in their ranks. (but of course, other units on the Greek side call for other units on the Eggy side, too)

I do agree that under the right circumstances toxes can win against chariots if the chariots stand and fight.

However, I believe that your test was not representative either, because numbers were too low on both sides. The problem is that when you simply order your stuff to attack-move forward, the tox in the first row will stop and fire as soon as the chariots come into range. All the rows behind them will not be able to fire yet, and will not be able to move further forward because the first line is blocking their path, so the tox get a major pathing problem here. Meanwhile, by the time the first tox row can fire, all chariot rows can fire, simply because chariots have significantly greater range.

You tested with only 3 tox, so there were no multiple rows in your test. But archers are pretty useless in such low numbers. They need to be massed to be effective.

In order to remedy this pathing problem, the tox owner would have to manually march his tox forces further forward even though their first row could already fire. This makes parthian maneuver even easier for the chariots, and of course the Greek will have a very hard time hitting exactly the right moment when the last row of his toxes have come into range with his attack order. Of course, this also means that his toxes spend a longer time marching through enemy gunfire and taking losses before firing back, even though part of them could already fire. I remember really hating this effect back in the times when I was playing Greek. Once again Eggy has the easier battle micro on their side even if they do not bother to do Parthian Maneuver.
Hele has a huge hp, and 15 peirce. Not many units can beat it popwise in AOM, not even unupgraded elephant.
If we look at the stats, things appear to be like this:

  • Helepolis: 650 hp, 5% hack armor, attacks are 3x5pierce and 3x17 crush.

  • Elephant: 450hp, 40% pierce armor, 99% crush armor, attacks at 14 hack.

    Assuming that all helepolis shots hit the phant, Helepolis does (60% of 15) + (1% of 51) = 9 + 0.51 = 9.51 effective damage/second to the phant. With that, it takes 450/9.51 = 47.3 seconds to kill an elephant.

    Meanwhile, elephant does 95% of 14 = 13.3 effective damage/second to the helepolis. With that, it takes 48.9 seconds to kill the helepolis.

    So seemingly, you are right. But now remember that "unupgraded" elephants do not exist, since all real-game elephants have the "medium" line upgrade built-in for 10% more life and attack. So against real-game unupgraded elephants, the math is:

  • Elephant: 495hp, 40% pierce armor, 99% crush armor, attacks at 15.4 hack.

    Assuming that all helepolis shots hit the phant, Helepolis does (60% of 15) + (1% of 51) = 9 + 0.51 = 9.51 effective damage/second to the phant. With that, it takes 495/9.51 = 52.1 seconds to kill an elephant.

    Meanwhile, elephant does 95% of 15.4 = 14.63 effective damage/second to the helepolis. With that, it takes 44.4 seconds to kill the helepolis.

    This means that the helepolis takes a full 17% longer to kill an unupgraded elephant than vice versa. So what you said is not correct.

    Hack damage units are incredibly effective vs helepoli, even those that get no bonus. Of course not many other units compare to elephants firepower-wise, but in return it is safe to assume that they will have lots of line and armory upgrades by mythic age. With these, every mainline unit should have an easy time defeating a helepolis. The engineers upgrade does not even nearly suffice to compensate for the line upgrades alone, let alone the armory ups. You just saw what difference even a single line upgrade makes for the example of the war elephant.

    Darkness is a state of mind
    Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
    Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
  • outsky2008
    Mortal
    posted 16 October 2008 10:46 AM EDT (US)     112 / 122       
    However, I believe that your test was not representative either, because numbers were too low on both sides.
    You tested with only 3 tox, so there were no multiple rows in your test. But archers are pretty useless in such low numbers. They need to be massed to be effective.
    in large number, tox will defeat CA in equal pop with the same level of upgrade. For example, 12 tox will defeat 8 CA.
    In fact, I also tested 24 tox vs 16 ca, with and without micro, with different starting distances. In one senario, I did first use 16 CA to shoot tox in a distance tox cannot shoot ca. Tox always won. My point is in small number CA>tox. In large number, tox >ca.
    It is good to have theory, but I suggest you do some test to validate your claim.
    Helepolis: 650 hp, 5% hack armor, attacks are 3x5pierce and 3x17 crush.
    I understand you do not care about AOM. But in at least vanilla AOM, helepolis stat is like this: 700hp, 20%hack armor. I got this from proto, and game index. Maybe, I should not talk about AOM, for no one really cares about it now. I did so because I just lost my TT.

    I have the feeling that Dap's writing style is like doing some kind of argument task in some kind of examination.

    [This message has been edited by outsky2008 (edited 10-16-2008 @ 10:55 AM).]

    muforseti
    Mortal
    posted 16 October 2008 10:57 AM EDT (US)     113 / 122       
    You can always put his posts through the Unintelligencer if you have trouble understanding.

    Example:
    You misunderstood me, but I guess I did not express myself clearly enough. The part that you quoted is to be understood in its context. When I said "If the Greek is using only tox", I meant that he is not mixing in any peltasts. At equal pop, I see axemen/chariot kill his frontline myrms faster than myrms/tox kill the frontline axemen, simply because axes counter myrms very hard while myrms lose their bonus when attacking axes. (Remember that due to pop considerations, there will be 50% more axemen than myrms.) With their meat shield dead and a few axes remaining, I am not giving the tox any chance to win this, not without peltasts in their ranks. (but of course, other units on the Greek side call for other units on the Eggy side, too)

    I do agree that under the right circumstances toxes can win against chariots if the chariots stand and fight.

    However, I believe that your test was not representative either, because numbers were too low on both sides. The problem is that when you simply order your stuff to attack-move forward, the tox in the first row will stop and fire as soon as the chariots come into range. All the rows behind them will not be able to fire yet, and will not be able to move further forward because the first line is blocking their path, so the tox get a major pathing problem here. Meanwhile, by the time the first tox row can fire, all chariot rows can fire, simply because chariots have significantly greater range.

    You tested with only 3 tox, so there were no multiple rows in your test. But archers are pretty useless in such low numbers. They need to be massed to be effective.

    In order to remedy this pathing problem, the tox owner would have to manually march his tox forces further forward even though their first row could already fire. This makes parthian maneuver even easier for the chariots, and of course the Greek will have a very hard time hitting exactly the right moment when the last row of his toxes have come into range with his attack order. Of course, this also means that his toxes spend a longer time marching through enemy gunfire and taking losses before firing back, even though part of them could already fire. I remember really hating this effect back in the times when I was playing Greek. Once again Eggy has the easier battle micro on their side even if they do not bother to do Parthian Maneuver.
    yuo misunderstood mi, Butt I guess I do nawt express myself clearly enough. da part dat you quoted r 2 b understood ins it's context. wen I sayd "If De Greek iz using onley tox", I meant tyhat him is nots mixing n eny peltasts. At equal pop, I c axemen/chariot kill hiz frontline myrms faster then myrms/tox kill th' frontline axemen, simply bcuz axes counter myrms very hard whil myrms lose thar bonus wen attacking axes. (Remember that due too pop considerations, ther wil be 50% mroe axemen then myrms.) wid thier meat sheild dead & an few axes remaining, I am nawt giving tehz tox any chance tew win thys, nto without peltasts Ins their ranks. (but ov course, udder units onna thee Greek syde call phoar otehr units on Eggy syde, tew)

    I do agree that unner Thge rite circumstances toxes kan win aginst chariots if tghe chariots stand an fight.

    However, I believe that ur test wuz not representative eiter, kuz numbers were too low on both sides. teh prob is that wehn you simply order your stuff 2 attack-moov foward, the tox n the 1st row wil stop + fire as soon as the chariots cum inot range. All the rows behind them wil not be able to fire yet, en will not be able to move further forward because the frist line is blocking their path, zo the tox git major pathing prob here. Meanwhile, by the tym the first tox row cans fire, all chariot rows can fire, simply because chariots has signifantly greater range.

    You tested with onyl 3 tox, so there were noah multiple rows in your test. But archers be pretty useless in such low numbers. thay needs to be massed to be effective.

    In order to remedy thsi pathing problem, the tox owner would have to manually march him tox forces further forward een tho their first row could awready fire. tihs makes parthian manouver evn easier for the chariots, anbd off course the Greek will have an very hard time hitting exactly the rite moment whn the last row Uv his toxes have come into range with his attack order. Of course, this also means that his toxes spend a longer time marching through enemy gunfire and tkaing losses before firing bcak, een though part of them could already fire. I remember rly hating this effect back in the times when I was playing Greek. 1ce agin Eggy has the easier battle micro on their side even if they do not bother to do Parthian Manuver.

    [This message has been edited by muforseti (edited 10-16-2008 @ 10:59 AM).]

    outsky2008
    Mortal
    posted 16 October 2008 11:17 AM EDT (US)     114 / 122       
    Interesting, but wpbragi? and what does vokthoth mean according to your translator?

    [This message has been edited by outsky2008 (edited 10-16-2008 @ 12:04 PM).]

    Dudis
    Mortal
    posted 17 October 2008 02:40 AM EDT (US)     115 / 122       
    ROFOl

    "Quotes are nothing but inspiration for the uninspired"
    72% of people agree with me when I say 28% of people disagree with me.
    "I'll remove the clit at the end" - Rotaretilbo
    " I just snapped off my penis thinking it was a nk" - BeezleBub
    "Im a transexual STFU" - Briguy
    Nirwanda
    Mortal
    posted 17 October 2008 08:21 AM EDT (US)     116 / 122       
    Aye.

    That, and the fact that Eggy has no working counters at all against Cherios in classical age.

    Yup.
    BlackSun88
    Banned
    posted 17 October 2008 09:31 AM EDT (US)     117 / 122       
    ein littol spear & MU vs chiero...

    there's always vills too xD
    Nirwanda
    Mortal
    posted 17 October 2008 10:38 AM EDT (US)     118 / 122       
    Spears and vills?

    Come on...
    Dudis
    Mortal
    posted 17 October 2008 08:36 PM EDT (US)     119 / 122       
    Cherios as in chariot archer?

    "Quotes are nothing but inspiration for the uninspired"
    72% of people agree with me when I say 28% of people disagree with me.
    "I'll remove the clit at the end" - Rotaretilbo
    " I just snapped off my penis thinking it was a nk" - BeezleBub
    "Im a transexual STFU" - Briguy
    Major_Rackham
    Banned
    posted 17 October 2008 11:06 PM EDT (US)     120 / 122       
    Chieros as in chieros.




    Chieroballistas, (sp?)
    Dudis
    Mortal
    posted 18 October 2008 06:31 PM EDT (US)     121 / 122       
    read my sig

    "Quotes are nothing but inspiration for the uninspired"
    72% of people agree with me when I say 28% of people disagree with me.
    "I'll remove the clit at the end" - Rotaretilbo
    " I just snapped off my penis thinking it was a nk" - BeezleBub
    "Im a transexual STFU" - Briguy
    Arus_II
    Mortal
    posted 19 October 2008 07:16 AM EDT (US)     122 / 122       
    I thought you had ubisoft gold edition?
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