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Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy and General Discussion » Apollo vs Dionysus
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Topic Subject:Apollo vs Dionysus
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Vindicated
Mortal
posted 27 September 2008 06:10 PM EDT (US)         

I'm a zeus player and always find myself going Dionysus because most of the stat guides i have read ...say so

I know Gods are to be used as tools , but why do people suggest going Dionysus over Apollo mopst of the time and what are situations where you find yourself needing to use one more than the other.

Also If you dont play Zeus maybe you have some input how a Zeus players choice to choose one or the other has effected the out come of your match(es)
AuthorReplies:
General Hades
Mortal
posted 12 October 2008 11:37 PM EDT (US)     31 / 48       
dionysus of course, partialy because hes a drunk god (woooohh go wine god!) otherwyse becasue he got good options for aom

your my favourite you are, because u are so thick, so thick infact that i know that you come from thickity town which is so thick u couldnt unthick it with a unthickiniser, you come from thickania and your sooooo thick,,,,,,,,,, and so's your dad, coz bannanas are good!
Hedrought
Mortal
posted 13 October 2008 00:34 AM EDT (US)     32 / 48       
Then again Apollo can be really good because of his God power.

The underworld passage can be devastating if one is placed in a enemy base. Trust me I know

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Arus_II
Mortal
posted 13 October 2008 00:53 AM EDT (US)     33 / 48       
GPs arent everything. btw: bronze is nice too, and easier to use as the passage.
DeathAndPain
Mortal
posted 13 October 2008 04:55 AM EDT (US)     34 / 48       
When I decided that Hermes would be my main classical choice I knew that I couldn't use Apollo
Both Apollo and Dionysus complement Hermes, although I agree that Dionysus gets more out of the deal. But Apollo has the Sun Ray upgrade, and this upgrade does affect your centaurs, too.
I don't really use myth units much, but I really like the Hydra. Sure, the manticore is good and it can support your army without getting hitted by heroes as much as the Hydras, but you won't afford the wood cost if you have centaurs. My wood is a problem because of the high farm costs and the military buildings - and you need to buy the forretress in heroic. I just can't afford to buy manticores.
No offense intended, but your words reveal a flawed mindset. Your needs should dictate your production, not vice versa. Of all resources, wood is the one that your vills have the fastest gathering rate at. If you can foresee that you will need more wood, simply send more vills there.

Meanwhile, food is harder to obtain, and therefore more valuable in all ages before mythic. By heroic age, your hunting and herdables are done most of the times, so you need to resort to farming. And farming is a very slow source of income, especially when you do not have all of the farming upgrades yet. This means that a villager can gather more resources per second if you put him on wood than if you task him on food. And this in turn means that manticores are easier to pay for than hydras.

I do agree that hydra are very good and valuable. Just your line of reasoning is not valid. In order to get your final source of income, farms, you need to invest lots of wood, as you pointed out yourself. Making your MU out of wood instead of food means saving one stage of production. It is as if your were capable to write on wood just as well as on paper, so that you can spare yourself the additional effort to process the wood to make paper!
The manticores can't be used as good as the hydras offensive. They can't tare down buildings, witch is a big problems when you havn't got many siege weapons.
But lacking siege weapons is a mistake in itself when you are playing Greek at heroic age, for this is exactly something the Greek race excels at. In addition, you have Zeus hoplites as a form of melee siege. You should not need a siege myth unit in addition.

This also depends on what race you are playing against. Against Eggy, manticores are easier to keep at safe range from his priests than any melee myth. Against other races, hydras shine with their extreme firepower. If your hydra can only grow one additional head you have a true fighting monster.
Besides, the Scylla is a must have in a water map if you want to use Hermes even in land maps. They will give you the control over the water very easily.
Many Zeuses have thought that vs me and failed miserably. I agree if you are playing vanilla. In TT, however, there is an additional upgrade named "Heroic Fleet", and it is available as early as classical age. With that upgrade, all ships get 2.5x damage vs myth, which is enough even for his arrow ships to deal with your scyllas nicely.

If you FH on water you can as well use siege vessels to conquer the sea. This is safer, because there is no simple upgrade that can negate the advantage of siege ships over his classical vessels. (Thor has access to plenty of cheap armory upgrades though, having enough of which can actually enable his arrow ships to fight your siege ships. But these upgrades must be researched first.).
btw: it is "wich" and not "witch"
Shucks, "witch" is correct. Another word for this is "Isis".

Darkness is a state of mind
Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
Arus_II
Mortal
posted 13 October 2008 10:22 AM EDT (US)     35 / 48       
Heroic Fleet", and it is available as early as classical age.
But that upgrade is not cheap, so if you spam scyllai, you will force him too waste those precious recourses. You are of course also wasting it on your scyllai, but if you are smart you will only make 1/2, so he has to research it, and you can stop making them when he began researching.
Shucks, "witch" is correct. Another word for this is "Isis".
rofl, do you need siege weapons for Isis?

[This message has been edited by Arus_II (edited 10-13-2008 @ 10:25 AM).]

DeathAndPain
Mortal
posted 13 October 2008 10:48 AM EDT (US)     36 / 48       
But that upgrade is not cheap, so if you spam scyllai, you will force him too waste those precious recourses.
Well, what is a greater expense: Heroic Fleet or Heroic Age? Remember that this is about sea domination, and the player will come out on top here who has the stronger fleet. The lesser your expenses for other stuff, the more money you have for quickly getting a powerful fleet. I agree that heroic age also confers siege vessels, but these train slowly and are expensive.

Btw, heroic fleet does have some other uses: Your arrow ships can combat his land-based or flying myth nicely with this. Often enough reinforcement routes are right along a coast on Medi, and this is not always avoidable when you are using rally points for your barracks. Also remember that MU typically have less than 99% crush armor, so in mythic age siege vessels can effectively fight them over an extended range. And have you ever seen a titan that is being battered by multiple siege ships with naval oxybeles and Heroic Fleet? It is not pretty, I can assure you.

A great gloater is also catching that full roc with your heroic arrow ships. Fewer arrow hits will suffice than that Ra believed.

I still agree that water myth does have its value. I just wanted to point out that it is not the ultimate super power that some believe it to be - and that it actually was in vanilla. I have laughed my ass off before when that Zeus lost his fishing to my early fleet while going FH, then lost his scyllas to my arrow ships because I saw his FH coming due to no fleet, so I had the upgrade completed when his first scylla showed up, and finally found that siege ships are no working counters to massed arrow ships with Thor's burning bitches and bronze mail. I simply stayed in classical age and defeated all the heroic stuff he threw at me. Also remember that in this context, I could easily afford having the higher expenses because all the time I was fishing while he was not. (Another thing to keep in mind when comparing FH costs to heroic fleet costs. Your FH does include saving the money that I invest in my arrow ships, so you lose the sea right away and are dependent on your scyllas not failing you in winning it back.)

Darkness is a state of mind
Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
RudeGod
Mortal
posted 13 October 2008 12:25 PM EDT (US)     37 / 48       
"I have laughed my ass off before when that Zeus lost his fishing to my early fleet while going FH, then lost his scyllas to my arrow ships because I saw his FH coming due to no fleet, so I had the upgrade completed when his first scylla showed up, and finally found that siege ships are no working counters to massed arrow ships with Thor's burning bitches and bronze mail. I simply stayed in classical age and defeated all the heroic stuff he threw at me."

... but heroic fleet is a heroic age upgrade...
muforseti
Mortal
posted 13 October 2008 12:34 PM EDT (US)     38 / 48       
AND OUR SURVEY SAYS:



that was a little family fortunes joke, but anyway it's a classical upgrade.

[This message has been edited by muforseti (edited 10-13-2008 @ 12:34 PM).]

Nirwanda
Mortal
posted 14 October 2008 02:30 AM EDT (US)     39 / 48       
... but heroic fleet is a heroic age upgrade...
Now that's a classical...
DeathAndPain
Mortal
posted 14 October 2008 03:31 AM EDT (US)     40 / 48       
Indeed.

Darkness is a state of mind
Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
Mythic_Freak
Mortal
posted 14 October 2008 12:43 PM EDT (US)     41 / 48       
...and finally found that siege ships are no working counters to massed arrow ships with Thor's burning bitches and bronze mail.
How would bronze mail help vs siege ships?

If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it? - Einstein, A.
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muforseti
Mortal
posted 14 October 2008 01:44 PM EDT (US)     42 / 48       
It increases ships crush armour.
Mythic_Freak
Mortal
posted 14 October 2008 02:34 PM EDT (US)     43 / 48       
Wow! I never knew...
Water battles isn't my thing.

If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it? - Einstein, A.
Master XS - AoM Code Reference - Trigger Loader - Trigger Requests - Chess

Wow, I never thought that I would actually know something before nottud did... it's actually not all that satisfying ~ Steak
DeathAndPain
Mortal
posted 15 October 2008 03:34 AM EDT (US)     44 / 48       
Yes, all hack armor upgrades improve both hack and crush armor for ships. If you look at the base stats for ships, also keeping in mind that siege ships are 3-pop-units, train a lot slower, and have a pathetic firing rate and accuracy, then you quickly find that with a couple ordinary armory upgrades, arrow ships are capable of comparing to siege ships nicely. Thor gets everything up to bronze at ridiculous cost and also has access to another 20% attack damage from burning bitches in all ages. Combine that with the fact that Norse arrow ships have higher base damage anyway, and you see my point.

Darkness is a state of mind
Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
Dudis
Mortal
posted 15 October 2008 04:54 AM EDT (US)     45 / 48       
burning bitches? lol wtf

"Quotes are nothing but inspiration for the uninspired"
72% of people agree with me when I say 28% of people disagree with me.
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Nirwanda
Mortal
posted 15 October 2008 05:07 AM EDT (US)     46 / 48       
That's actually pretty funny
Arus_II
Mortal
posted 15 October 2008 10:54 AM EDT (US)     47 / 48       
ROFL
20% attack damage from burning bitches
Shanks13
Rogue Agent
posted 15 October 2008 10:32 PM EDT (US)     48 / 48       
DaPisms ftw guys.

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