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Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy and General Discussion » Building walls.
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Topic Subject:Building walls.
humblebumble
Mortal
posted 16 July 2009 11:09 AM EDT (US)         
I always wall myself in like crazy, so I'm wondering why my enemy AIs don't do the same.

In fact, the past.. FIFTY times or so I've played my enemies don't use walls at all. Not like in AoEII.

Is this a bug or something that I'm doing weird about the gameplay?
AuthorReplies:
DeathAndPain
Mortal
posted 16 July 2009 01:47 PM EDT (US)     1 / 22       
I always wall myself in like crazy, so I'm wondering why my enemy AIs don't do the same.
Because they are not programmed to do that?
Is this a bug or something that I'm doing weird about the gameplay?
  • The AI is as it is. It does not play good though.

  • Making walls is basically good, especially to protect vulnerable spots of your economy.

  • You have not said so, but it sounds as if you are playing very defensively, i.e. passively, fortifying your base until you are in mythic age, have researched everything, and then mount an army to attack with. While this may work vs AI, it is newbie style and would get you severely raped against decent human opponents, i.e. opponents that know what they are doing.

    Darkness is a state of mind
    Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
    Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
  • Joshonator
    Mortal
    posted 16 July 2009 02:11 PM EDT (US)     2 / 22       
    It hurts your economy (since the villager has to work on it and it uses up gold) so usually early in the game it's best to spend money on units that can actually defend you instead of walls that just are useless the moment a single part is destroyed.

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    DragonQ
    SC2H Seraph
    posted 16 July 2009 02:14 PM EDT (US)     3 / 22       
    Well that's why you don't make masses of walls, you just use them in choke points and also to protect towers etc.

    Walls have massive HP compared to both their cost and build time, they are definitely worth it in sensible situations.

    Take my love, take my land, take me where I cannot stand.
    I don't care, I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me.
    Take me out to the black, tell them I ain't comin' back.
    Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me.
    There's no place I can be, since I found Serenity.
    But you can't take the sky from me...
    humblebumble
    Mortal
    posted 16 July 2009 02:14 PM EDT (US)     4 / 22       
    So enemies will NEVER build walls? How boring. I always enjoyed tearing them down.

    And yes DeathAndPain I do play pretty defensively. I am a weakling that way. But there is a time and place. Vast, open stretches of land will not benefit walling yourself in. A forested, maze-like map with a few gaps is ideal for fortification though.

    [This message has been edited by humblebumble (edited 07-16-2009 @ 02:16 PM).]

    DragonQ
    SC2H Seraph
    posted 16 July 2009 02:15 PM EDT (US)     5 / 22       
    AI enemies won't build walls. Play online, tis far more fun.

    Take my love, take my land, take me where I cannot stand.
    I don't care, I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me.
    Take me out to the black, tell them I ain't comin' back.
    Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me.
    There's no place I can be, since I found Serenity.
    But you can't take the sky from me...
    humblebumble
    Mortal
    posted 16 July 2009 02:19 PM EDT (US)     6 / 22       
    Yeah I imagine it's a lot less predictable than AIs. But also pretty damn terrifying.
    Peter Fallon
    Mortal
    (id: Xzyiothe)
    posted 16 July 2009 02:24 PM EDT (US)     7 / 22       
    A raid that you don't see coming hurts your economy moreso than the villager (and gold cost). The villager isn't a problem for Norse either. Might aswell smack down a wall in a strategic point while scouting.

    Non norse I usually just wall to protect from raids, while taking second tc, trade, more later in the game.

    AIs simply aren't smart enough, put down random wall connectors. It's pretty pathetic. Watch some recs and play rated.

    ☭ Long live the Turk ☭
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    humblebumble
    Mortal
    posted 16 July 2009 02:28 PM EDT (US)     8 / 22       
    Even though enemy walls were kind of a staple in AoEII, which seems to suggest a smarter AI, they built them in the stupidest and most wasteful ways. Like right next to or even along a map edge where NO ONE could pass. Wow.

    But I always thought it added a nice symmetry to the town.

    And that is why I would DIE online. Compromising tactical integrity for aesthetics. Fail.
    Silicone Ruff Jr
    Mortal
    posted 16 July 2009 02:51 PM EDT (US)     9 / 22       
    On an interesting note: some campaign AIs *do* build walls properly.

    I've seen that in my scenarios.

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    AGE OF MYTHOLOGY'S THIRD UNMODDED FULL CAMPAIGN __\^^\)___ AGE OF MYTHOLOGY'S THIRD UNMODDED FULL CAMPAIGN
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    "This is shaping up to be the best campaign on AoM heaven"
    Marclo40
    Mortal
    posted 16 July 2009 03:42 PM EDT (US)     10 / 22       
    in vanilla, put the Ai to Big Boomer
    in TT put it to defender

    the Ai wall placement really sucks though
    humblebumble
    Mortal
    posted 16 July 2009 04:09 PM EDT (US)     11 / 22       
    Vanilla? What's that?
    Nick The Hun
    Mortal
    (id: Nick_The_Hunn)
    posted 16 July 2009 04:56 PM EDT (US)     12 / 22       
    normal AoM, a 'not-Titan-AoM'
    DeathAndPain
    Mortal
    posted 16 July 2009 05:22 PM EDT (US)     13 / 22       
    But there is a time and place.
    Against an opponent that grants it to you. Which is not a good opponent.
    Vast, open stretches of land will not benefit walling yourself in.
    Walls with gates are always beneficial. You just have to consider the tradeoff in gold and worker time to erect them. But even on vast plains, a long wall with gates will allow your troops free movement, while the enemy movement is hampered. You will have early warning if enemy troops force their way through, so you cannot be surprised. But you can surprise him without him being able to draw defenders near in time.

    Lategame, when the gold costs of walls no longer matter and a couple vills are easy to spare, creating lots of walls all over the map is an efficient tactics.

    Darkness is a state of mind
    Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
    Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
    humblebumble
    Mortal
    posted 16 July 2009 05:38 PM EDT (US)     14 / 22       
    Time and place as in map layouts. I just got off playing 'Riverland' (DLed here) with a small bottle neck opening that's ideal for fortification in the early ages.

    The trouble with building a wall across a huge continent (apart from that it's gold and workers intensive) is that while you will be warned against intruders, they can come at so many places at the same time and it's hard to disperse your troops in any kind of beneficial defense line-up.. like all along the wall.

    I am talking strictly AI now, as that was my subject question.
    HailToTheOboe
    Bitten by a radioactive ostrich
    posted 16 July 2009 07:43 PM EDT (US)     15 / 22       
    VB_WhiplashJC
    Mortal
    posted 16 July 2009 10:46 PM EDT (US)     16 / 22       
    How did you build the walls around the tc like that?

    Is this a difference between nilla and tt?

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    Major_Rackham
    Banned
    posted 16 July 2009 11:53 PM EDT (US)     17 / 22       
    My thoughts exactly when I saw that 11

    I also came up with same conclusion as you...
    PK_Clown
    Mortal
    (id: cool120)
    posted 17 July 2009 02:43 PM EDT (US)     18 / 22       
    So what if the computers don't make walls? Screw tearing them down and exploit it!

    And, as mentioned before, turtling aint gonna work online against most people. I've learned it the hard way.

    (edit: Wouldn't walling yourself be a waste of space, eg for farms around your TC? Wouldn't you be cramped?)

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    From here

    [This message has been edited by cool120 (edited 07-17-2009 @ 02:52 PM).]

    Joshonator
    Mortal
    posted 17 July 2009 06:17 PM EDT (US)     19 / 22       
    Walls with gates are always beneficial. You just have to consider the tradeoff in gold and worker time to erect them. But even on vast plains, a long wall with gates will allow your troops free movement, while the enemy movement is hampered. You will have early warning if enemy troops force their way through, so you cannot be surprised. But you can surprise him without him being able to draw defenders near in time.

    Lategame, when the gold costs of walls no longer matter and a couple vills are easy to spare, creating lots of walls all over the map is an efficient tactics.
    +1

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    Joshonator
    Mortal
    posted 17 July 2009 06:22 PM EDT (US)     20 / 22       
    Building walls in maps with good choke points such as acropolis are extremely beneficial, as this recorded game illustrates.

    http://aom.heavengames.com/downloads/showfile.php?fileid=8879

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    Nirwanda
    Mortal
    posted 17 July 2009 07:45 PM EDT (US)     21 / 22       
    Acropo..? What..?

    "All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"

    Gandalf - JRR Tolkein. The Fellowship of the Ring

    [This message has been edited by Nirwanda (edited 07-17-2009 @ 07:46 PM).]

    HailToTheOboe
    Bitten by a radioactive ostrich
    posted 17 July 2009 08:21 PM EDT (US)     22 / 22       
    How did you build the walls around the tc like that?
    Ceasefire gave me the time to do it. In vanilla you cannot build walls next to unbuilt settlements or gold mines (well you can, but you're not supposed to be able to), but built TCs are fair game.
    Is that different in TT?
    Yet another reason to stick with vanilla
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