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Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy and General Discussion » What are the recommended Atlantean gods?
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Topic Subject:What are the recommended Atlantean gods?
Campaigner
Mortal
posted 16 February 2010 05:32 PM EDT (US)         
I was playing my friend (who isn't that good and a builder moderate A.I)

Had this great plan in my head that I'll choose Oceanus for healing flyers and then Theia for Cavalry that'll trash buildings. The other alternative was Prometheus for early crush and Hyperion for regenrating heroes (Oranos have 2 healer gods so I think I should choose atleast one of'em)

Problem is that while I had a good force of Cheiroballista and Katapeltes I came across a fortified towncenter which I didn't want to engage....and getting seige would take too long.....and when I finally went to heroic I didn't have much wood (yeah I know...get more citizens on lumber then....)

Well, it went to hell basically and I think it's because I wasn't aggressive enough and also since I hand't any crushdamage AT ALL until Heroic....

http://www.filefactory.com/file/b020h19/n/Oranos_vs_Zeus_and_A.I_moderate_Builder_Loki.rec

I do usually scout alot and keep track of the gold mines but that mostly happens after I've crippled the A.I and lock my friend in his base.

Sun goes up, sun goes down, i always win! Logical actions in a logical world.

[This message has been edited by Campaigner (edited 02-16-2010 @ 05:58 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
Chimaira
Mortal
posted 16 February 2010 06:32 PM EDT (US)     1 / 22       
Go Prometheus.

Go heroic and make destroyers.
moravec
Mortal
posted 16 February 2010 06:32 PM EDT (US)     2 / 22       
Prometheus->Theia->Hekate, with a map-controlling(lots of running around with critical mass turma) full pop 3 TC classical followed by teching straight to a Titan.
Valor for 9 free heroes and eventually cheaper hero tech if you need it late-game. Also prometheans are the best and should be what eats up a lot of your early favor.
Theia trees for GP block on titan gate, Dryads are good and free bird helps kill myth units.
Tartarian gate immediately on a cluster of buildings(like houses) for damage, with free lampades again to snipe myth units.
Titan to replace your siege because atlantean siege sucks.
Mythic rejuvenation for your titan.
Make fanatics.

Practically ignore all other myth techs, like lance of stone and the other crap. Only build anything other than Fanatics, Turma, and some murmillo if you're just facing heavy amounts of one kind of unit. It's not that Katapeltes and Chieroballista are weak it's just that by the time you can't get away with just murmillo and turma, you'll have fanatics instead. That, uh, one cavalry unit sucks and Arcus only have range as a strength.

[This message has been edited by moravec (edited 02-16-2010 @ 06:48 PM).]

Campaigner
Mortal
posted 18 February 2010 11:44 AM EDT (US)     3 / 22       
Moravec

Thanks for all the info dude


So the GP trees block the Titan Gate? But he can just put it somewhere else. And if I put them to close to his base he might take'em.

I thought Theias strength was the crushdamage cavalry since having a fast unit that are good against both archers and buildings (like the Hurkarl) seemed great.

I choose Hyperion since regenerating units seemed like a great idea and his God Power and mythunit aren't bad. Plus I like micromanaging surviving units so he's quite good for me ^^

Here's a replay with Oranos (Me) vs Zeus & Thor (Moderate Builder)

http://www.filefactory.com/file/b02960g/n/Oranos_vs_Zeus_amp_Thor_Moderate_builder_.rcx

As you can see my friend is definetly no RTS player since he doesn't macromanage at all. I've told him 10+ times to press . to find idle villagers and use the autoqueue but he says he's not that experienced and stuff....that's why he got a moderate A.I ally

Again I need to scout more but I'm working on it. Since I can't check the entire map I'm focusing on the goldmines since every unit needs gold.

Sun goes up, sun goes down, i always win! Logical actions in a logical world.

[This message has been edited by Campaigner (edited 02-18-2010 @ 02:09 PM).]

moravec
Mortal
posted 18 February 2010 01:51 PM EDT (US)     4 / 22       
Contarius are a weak unit. The ulfsark of the heroic age. Maybe worse, and have significantly less myth upgrades to benefit them. They're inefficient normally and even more inefficient heroized, which is the requirement for building damage.

The trees are to block god powers that would be used on your titan gate. When your gameplan is to pull a titan out quickly, a meteor/tornado/earthquake/implode will end you early.

Regeneration is too slow, too costly and too limited to be effectual. Hyperion is truly a terrible minor god, Satyrs are possibly one of crappiest myth units and their upgrade is even more hilarious. Like retarded manticores. Only Chaos god power really shows any utility.

Oranos is all about micromanaging for strength(5.5 speed Turma and shockwave COMPLETELY change the game, it lets him play in a style that nullifies a ton of would-be counters due to micro), you won't need hero unit regeneration to make that any more true.

I should find a replay for you.
AoL_Iron_maiden
Mortal
posted 18 February 2010 05:48 PM EDT (US)     5 / 22       
dont play atty dude......SOOOOO BORING!!!

today i played my first atty game on midgard.....

i literally barely did anything for the first like... 7 mins

it was so dumb haha
buppy
Mortal
(id: pubby8)
posted 18 February 2010 06:28 PM EDT (US)     6 / 22       
Well then you weren't playing atty right.
Mr Martel
Mortal
posted 18 February 2010 07:48 PM EDT (US)     7 / 22       
BlackenedJack
Mortal
posted 18 February 2010 11:39 PM EDT (US)     8 / 22       
"Hyperion is truly a terrible minor god, Satyrs are possibly one of crappiest myth units and their upgrade is even more hilarious."

Bwahahahahah I could not agree more.

"Regeneration is too slow, too costly and too limited to be effectual."

Agree agree agree. Regeneration seems great, but lets look at some magical forum evidence, shall we?

•There is some thread floating about that was arguing how Wadjets regeneration and Trolls sneaky vampire thing makes them effective units. Them someone, who I happen to agree with, said that regardless of these small bonuses no player above 1600 considers the use of these traits in a successful strat.

•Odin, who isnt regarded as a great God to choose, has the bonus of regeneration. Although it might save you one or two units, the other bonuses of Norse Gods far outweigh this small attribute. When I see fans of Odin, I see fans of incredible hunting speed and Hill Fort bonuses, not fans of regeneration.

•Lastly, Hyperion's bonus only helps HEROS. You would still take incredible losses so you would be better off microing your raids to avoid deaths rather than relying on a crappy bonus to save you.

Oh by the way, Campaigner didnt you have a post before about how you liked Norse? Take Iron Maiden's advice and abandon Atty before you become just another guy who thinks Atty is the best. Or dont, its completely up to you I guess.

J♣ + A♠ = Me
moravec
Mortal
posted 19 February 2010 03:19 PM EDT (US)     9 / 22       
There's nothing wrong with playing Atlanteans. They're flawed in a couple of ways but they play fine up to a point. Oranos is quite fine to play if you're still in the learning stage especially, helps develop habits of map control, economy expansion, micro, and titan mechanics.

I think as of late players are all finally showing specific strategies across all major gods of late that put a box of it.

Anyone familiar with a Hades fast Heroic counter-Oranos strategy? 12/4/5/1+3 fast pickaxe Ajax Athena 7:30 aphrodite heroic with room for watch tower upgrade and chiron. 3 nemean lions and mostly peltast and a few hypaspist, 3 roars in, restoration through the shockwave, curse and it beats murm/turm/prom even with a 30 some population disadvantage, followed by walking through Atlantean towncenter expansions on only one TC and 2/3rds the economy of Oranos or less.

I used to play Hades all the time and the dreaded low food 3k gold games against Atlantean used to be just awful until someone showed that play to me.

But that all just means Oranos falls out of fashion to such brutal counterstrategy after a while, it won't mean you can't play Oranos for a bit if you like it.
Campaigner
Mortal
posted 19 February 2010 04:43 PM EDT (US)     10 / 22       
Just had another against my friend and a moderate standard Norse A.I. Too tough. Had to micromanage like hell (felt like StarCraft back in the day.)

http://www.filefactory.com/file/b02fd47/n/Oranos_vs_Zeus_amp_Norse_Moderate_standard_.rcx

I attack both of'em simultaneously to destroy workers and focus on the A.I since it's better then my friend
Guess that's why I lose. But if I only strike one then the other will support the other/attack me....

I strike out early and take over TCs. I am a bit late in building Palaces but I wanted a big, upgraded army of Turmas and Murmillo with some Cheiroballista and Katapeltes in the mix.

I thought I was going to win this one....but those Colossi are just so powerful....even 10 hero Turmas don't take'em down fast enough....thought of switching to Arcuses so I don't have to micromanage Turmas all the time but opted for Cheiroballista instead due to he having so many Myrmidons.

Well, this means that he gets a builder or protector A.I from now on (or that I get a defensive one. It's fun to have another Civ with you ^^) but this is the only RTS game I've ever seen that you CAN'T set the A.Is to different difficulties....



I'm thinking of going Kronos next. Rheia got a great mythunit which I intend to use to destroy the A.I quickly. Also really like the bonus for the Oracles as I think scouting is crucial. And his timeshift bonus is really useful. Nice temple in my base *timeshift* = REEEAALLY nice temple in my enemies backyard (yeah I guess you can just use the skypassages to move units around but then I have to risk workers and such....)

Was thinking of Helios as Mythic Age god. Unique, powerful towers and better siege.


BlackenedJack

Norse and Atlanteans are my favorites =) Greeks are too conventional and Egyptians....I use them sometimes.

Sun goes up, sun goes down, i always win! Logical actions in a logical world.

[This message has been edited by Campaigner (edited 02-19-2010 @ 04:50 PM).]

Husker
Mortal
posted 19 February 2010 06:28 PM EDT (US)     11 / 22       
I'm no tt guy, but doesn't sensey play oranos at a very high level? Like 2k?

Not the victory but the action;
Not the goal but the game;
In the deed the glory
moravec
Mortal
posted 19 February 2010 07:10 PM EDT (US)     12 / 22       
Build the economy guild immediately. Research hunting dogs.
First two to hunt, third to wood, fourth to gold and builds manor as soon as the gold comes in. Next two to food(different hunting spot), gold guy builds the temple as soon as you can afford it again, and the last goes to wood. Advance and move one from hunt to wood and another from hunt to gold for 2/3/2. Research pickaxe during age up and build a manor near wood. Immediately AQ prometheans and send them out to scout enemy hunt while building two counter barracks and one military barracks, AQ turmas and murmillos, try to aim valor on the first three turmas+one citizen, and attack whatever cluster of villagers you find ASAP. If they only start running away after you're on top of them, you should probably shockwave right then and get a good bunch of villager kills.

At 7:30-8:00, either by purposefully housing yourself at 95 pop for a moment or cutting AQ, stop promethean production and use a hero citizen to start building your second towncenter. Resume unit production and shortly after you should probably be able to afford a third. Keep all towncenters AQed on citizens at all times.

You'll need some practice I'm sure to avoid being housed, balacing your economy, microing your units and scouting and raiding hard. I can hit 130 population in a little over 9 minutes without much difficulty as Oranos, with the third TC on the way. It's just frankly an absolutely insane amount of classical power. I think you'll see a huge improvement here between a build order and knowing a more detailed gameplan- you'll find you have more military and more done in a shorter amount of time because of a better balanced economy and more efficient unit production.

In heroic you want to stay for about as long as it takes for a hero citizen who has been working their way over to a good corner for a market to put a market down. Then click the mythic button. Put down the hesperiades tree right away, AQ the dryads, and you can build the fortress over your gold.

I can't tell if you know this but make sure to place the tartarian gate god power literally underneath a cluster of buildings. Something like 3 military buildings, a critical fortress, or the best would be a nice cluster of houses.

Against mass Collosus(or a strong mythic Zeus in general) there is no true counter for Atlanteans, but hero Fanatics are fast myth unit killers. They're expensive, so don't waste them, otherwise skunkwork hero arcus and stymphalian birds are what you have to use.

And get that Titan out!
Oromis65
Mortal
posted 20 February 2010 08:14 AM EDT (US)     13 / 22       
Well, I agree with Blackened Jack, regeneration sucks badly, like he quoted "it's too slow, and ineffectual" it's true.

But Atty is good for a beginner beginner because it allows for a slow start, then crazy a finish if you have the resources.
Prometheus, awesome start as well as Leto, maybe Oceanus if you want healers early. Hyperion, not so much a good choice for heroic, Theia is probably the best heroic minor god with good techs and god power + myth unit, and Rheia is also good her myth unit is great for crushing their forward TC's. Hekate, AWESOME goddess to use for chaos throughout their base with her god power Tartarian Gate. Helios still has the best Myth unit I think for the Myth Age, his god power is sort of ok, if you can get into their base long enough to use it, and last but not least Atlas, god power 8/10, myth unit 5/10 and techs 4/10, at that stage, siege protection techs might be useful against Eggy, not needful against norse and 50/50 with greek.
That's just my opinion on Atlanteans. I know AMAZING Atty players, and crappy Atty players. It depends on how you play.

Alice in Wonderland
Campaigner
Mortal
posted 20 February 2010 12:29 PM EDT (US)     14 / 22       
Moravec

Your a living guide ^^

Gonna be tough to remember where all the citizens go but I'll remember the first six atleast

Shouldn't I pause citizen production when I go to classical for just a moment?
If I don't, I get there so late.

Are hero citizens better builders/collectors then regular ones?

Haven't tried quick Mythic...always opted for a bunch of destroyers and some palaces to guard gold mines and chokepoints. I'll take your advice though and go directly to Mythic.

Can I put the Tartarus gate directly on enemy buildings? I'm pretty certain I've done it or if it was just next to but a building did go down just after I put it down. I remember not being able to put it on the TC though ;p

Against his legion of (only) Myrmidons and Collossi I thought Fanatics and Cheiroballistas would destroy them and I think cheiroballistas are faster then Arcuses aswell. But Arcuses can be heroized....if he gets to that stage again I'll try to siege from multiple directions to lock him in his base.

Sun goes up, sun goes down, i always win! Logical actions in a logical world.
Chimaira
Mortal
posted 20 February 2010 01:06 PM EDT (US)     15 / 22       
Just had another against my friend and a moderate standard Norse A.I. Too tough. Had to micromanage like hell (felt like StarCraft back in the day.)

http://www.filefactory.com/file/b02fd47/n/Oranos_vs_Zeus_amp_Norse_Moderate_standard_.rcx
When you have under 300 food and gold, and 1000 wood, then you should move your villagers to balance it out. Resource balancing is extremely easy for Atty players, so there is no excuse to have them that unbalanced.

You were housed for a very long time, preventing your army and your economy from growing.

Attack the outer buildings like towers first, then attack the tc. Don't fight under tc, it deals a lot of damage.

You took forever to use your god powers.

Stymphalian Birds are overpowered against Norse.

I noticed you were running away from green's hoplites and you made a B line for your villager building a tc, causing it to be killed.

The area where red's armory and houses were would have been the perfect place to invoke the tartarian gate.
moravec
Mortal
posted 20 February 2010 03:43 PM EDT (US)     16 / 22       
Shouldn't I pause citizen production when I go to classical for just a moment?
If I don't, I get there so late.
No. You shouldn't have idle towncenter time in archiac with any civilization, and especially not with atlantean. If you follow that build you shouldn't have any trouble.

Hero Citizens are faster workers and builders. I wouldn't make any other than the free ones with valor however. They are not significantly faster resource gatherers and it comes with additional population cost, their largest increase is in their build time, so that's what they are best at.
Mr Martel
Mortal
posted 20 February 2010 10:39 PM EDT (US)     17 / 22       
Here's a decent game I played as Oranos last night. I'm no Narco (probably the best active Oranos player atm) but the game is 17+ for all but one player (Green was high 1600s, not terrible), although I doubt Teal's skill as he clearly did not know how to empower properly 11.

A good reason to watch this game is that it isn't like most games that are posted on AS, where the winner gets perfect starting hunt and his opponent gets berries or chickens; this was quite the opposite and I had to make up for it with better play and early aggression. Also, unlike most games you see posted, this game is full of adapting, especially at the beginning as the Build Order (BO) was rather random considering where my food was.

Things to watch for:

  • Early Aggression on Savannah like this.
  • Actually researching eco ups, something most Atty players don't seem to know how to do.
  • Going Helios (another things most Atties don't do) because my TT wasn't exceptionally early, Mythic at 19:30 and TT and 22:30.
  • Side raids with Destroyers (not that uncommon)
  • Lategame Hero Contarius raids (was preparing for it, the units never came out though 11)
  • Helios Fire Siphon usage
  • Actually using Sky Passages (uncommon surprisingly).

    Only actual large mistakes that I noticed upon looking back are perhaps not helping my partner enough (with Vortex GP especially) which would have ended it much earlier and forgetting until like 35:00 the possibility of researching Masons/Architects oO. Aside from that, the game was pretty good

    http://aom.heavengames.com/downloads/showfile.php?fileid=9337

    [This message has been edited by Mr Martel (edited 02-21-2010 @ 10:44 AM).]

  • moravec
    Mortal
    posted 21 February 2010 00:56 AM EDT (US)     18 / 22       
    Ha, Helios. I have a feeling if I look at your game I'm going to want to say "You should have just played Kronos to play like that". Nothing totally wrong with Helios, Vortex is a cool godpower, just, Rheia->Helios with Kronos bonuses makes so much more sense than just jumping out a titan, with Behemoths and cheaper destroyer actually making decent siege so you can play a more "normal" heroic and and even more so- Rheia favor tech+cheaper Kronos MU and siege for Hekagigantes and siege spam. Especially the Hekagigantes spam- it's no Collosus, but sure is a fun unit when you can produce them non-stop and make buildings disappear.

    PS. File not found.

    Watched the game and I was right :3, You might as well have been Kronos.
    Note: Campaigner, he had no starting hunt so he did a makeshift no-economy guild build. All on food and one chops a tree once for 5 wood so you can get 6 citizens total and advanced ASAP. It's a faster advance and you don't usually build a military barracks right away- not with two counter barrack and double turma at the same time anyway- and give up making murmillos right off the bat, but you attack earlier.

    Martel in my opinion you should have added that economy guild in classical and picked up hunting dogs even sooner since you had hunt, and added murmillos. Murmillos are just so good!

    Sky Passages on Mediterranean or any other map that naturally splits the map make Oranos excell in a unique way sometimes, I agree. Do you play Oranos much, Martel?
    Mr Martel
    Mortal
    posted 21 February 2010 10:48 AM EDT (US)     19 / 22       
    K, I fixed the file, thanks for pointing that out...idk why it wasn't the right link. Anyways, no, I have played him like 40 times in maybe the last 6 months, usually due to random god choice. However, he is my toughest opponent as Isis usually so I coincidently know what to do with him and d/l a lot of recs vs him.

    Hmm, you may have been right about making the eco guild once I found the hunt but I think I would have advanced a bit later and lost some precious seconds. As for Murmillos, possibly...if he had forward gold or whatnot. However, he did not so I didn't really need the hack attack for anything as I had to go for more of a heavier raiding game where the Murmillos would have slowed down my army imo.

    Also, I got a question for you: Are Hekas really that good vs Eggy, especially Isis/Set? I always just figured that they weren't as I never have any trouble with them but I never put much thought into it either...

    What does Hekate really got on Helios anyways vs Eggy? Tartarian Gate is a joke if it isn't early enough and everything Helios has got benefits lategame, something you need to stay tough vs Eggy lategame. I see Suppe go Oranos most of the time and his best god is no doubt Oranos (despite what anybody says about Loki/Ra, he's really not that good with them 11).

    [This message has been edited by Mr Martel (edited 02-21-2010 @ 11:20 AM).]

    moravec
    Mortal
    posted 21 February 2010 01:28 PM EDT (US)     20 / 22       
    That economy guild and hunting dogs earlier in classical to add murmillos after a no-hunting dogs 4:05 double turma start. Not adding economy guild mid archaic.

    Murmillo are very good units in all situations, like Hoplites. Being the cheapest military unit you can buy as Atlantean helps too. Murmillo+Turma classical power for full map control. Turma scouting and moving 4.95 speed army to kill and deny is tougher than military splitting and just raiding only. Turma alone can lose to spear/sling even with shockwave. Murmillo and Turma power is what affords Oranos going straight for the Titan after classical, and skipping the much weaker Heroic period. When you go straight for Titan, Hekate and Tartarian gate and Mythic rejuvenation is clearly better. Fire Siphons are crappy siege and Helios only makes them not so crappy.

    No Hekagigantes usually unless you can spam them as Kronos, and are pretty useless against Nepthys. They are weak against any large amount of ranged fire when it only seems to be able to field 3 total at most. Oranos doesn't use them much because Oranos shouldn't use them, they just die and waste favor. If you go Helios with late mythic as Oranos it is sub-optimal, and only good for using Vortex.
    Mr Martel
    Mortal
    posted 21 February 2010 02:33 PM EDT (US)     21 / 22       
    You're right on the Eco Guild, should have definitely got that a min or two earlier. Hmm, I see your point with Murmillos, but wouldn't they just suck up food in this situation losing to a Migdol that he should have placed near his back gold mine and delay my TT even longer? Also, Turma do lose to spear/sling quite handily...which is why you don't fight that battle anyways.

    Also, it seems the longstanding opinion on Oranos is that a fast TT after Classical is required and this is what most Atty players tend to do, Narco being probably the best example of this (I seem him doing full turma like I did quite often, even in some recent recs vs Mag). However, when I watch some of Suppe's games, I see him going Helios the majority of the time, taking full advantage of Vortex and Fire Siphons. The beauty of Fire Siphons is that they require him to make units other than CA, often mercs which deplete his gold rather fast and most people tend to overqueue their mercs anyways.

    Seems to me to just be a playstyle opinion, not so much a clear right and wrong on this. But especially here in a teamgame, I think Helios outshines Hekate, especially 20+ min into the game.
    Campaigner
    Mortal
    posted 23 February 2010 07:29 AM EDT (US)     22 / 22       
    Had another game two days ago against my friend and a Moderate Norse Builder.

    http://www.filefactory.com/file/b04d24h/n/23_Feb_2010_Kronos_vs_Zeus_amp_Norse_Moderate_Builder_.rcx

    Since I don't want to know the outcome of games myself I'll let you see how it goes =)

    Mistakes I did:

    - I had two citizens too many on gold
    - Not enough control of the Turmas
    - Too few controlgroups of Turmas
    - Proxytemple (I forgot that I can just timshift buildings around) but it was still good since it occupied his first hero and free classical mythunit. If he had attacked my citizens with that Centaur my economy would have suffered


    My friend played miserably and if the viewlock is correct then I wonder if he were at the computer the entire game....
    Didn't even use autoqueue eventhough I've told him about it countless times now....queing up 14 villagers! and 10 Hoplites! And people wonder how people in the StarCraft II beta can play so badly....

    Are you guys in the beta and are gonna play StarCraft II when it gets released?


    And as a bonus I got accused of cheating since he could not believe that I had gotten so many units in a legit way. I take it as a sure sign that I got the skillz

    Edit: Removed pic since it was moved or deleted.

    Sun goes up, sun goes down, i always win! Logical actions in a logical world.

    [This message has been edited by Campaigner (edited 02-25-2010 @ 08:31 PM).]

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