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Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy and General Discussion » Fastest classical ever?
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Topic Subject:Fastest classical ever?
TheWadget
Mortal
posted 23 February 2010 02:53 PM EDT (US)         
Fastest archaic-clasic ever and guide.
I can do 3:32 whit creating 3 villagers so I have 100 food left.
AuthorReplies:
Husker
Mortal
posted 23 February 2010 03:14 PM EDT (US)     1 / 21       
Sushi had a thor pure dwarf build, that could get somewhere around 3:20 advance(on land) and still be able to play the game decently enough. Of course after awhile the dwarfs started hurting his eco.

Not the victory but the action;
Not the goal but the game;
In the deed the glory

[This message has been edited by Husker (edited 02-23-2010 @ 03:15 PM).]

Mr Martel
Mortal
posted 23 February 2010 06:39 PM EDT (US)     2 / 21       
I think you can do like a 3-man Krush at 2:30 and probably a 1-man Krush as well (this might be slower even, just thought of it, no idea). However, the 1-man Krush is a joke and the 3-man Krush is not that great either...however, it does work and many good Kronos players have it in their arsenal (I know Action did this more than once for example).
Sam_Ham
Mortal
posted 25 February 2010 05:17 PM EDT (US)     3 / 21       
yeah atl can get like 2min that's as fast as it gets


Sometimes you need to scare the lambs,
tell tales of evil bad wolves.
Because if there is nothing to fear,
they might think for themselves.
DeathAndPain
Mortal
posted 26 February 2010 09:03 AM EDT (US)     4 / 21       
If you take the thread subject "Fastest classical ever" literally, then any technically-possible approach is valid. That would most likely be spawn-hacking a citizen or two at game start so you gather the 400 food much faster and can probably advance sub-2:00 with Atlantean.

Darkness is a state of mind
Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
Sam_Ham
Mortal
posted 26 February 2010 02:28 PM EDT (US)     5 / 21       
If we're cheating why not just use JUNK FOOD NIGHT


Sometimes you need to scare the lambs,
tell tales of evil bad wolves.
Because if there is nothing to fear,
they might think for themselves.
L33TSkillz
Mortal
posted 26 February 2010 03:34 PM EDT (US)     6 / 21       
Since cheating was allowed I got 8 seconds.
Mr Martel
Mortal
posted 26 February 2010 04:00 PM EDT (US)     7 / 21       
L33TSkillz
Mortal
posted 27 February 2010 10:55 PM EDT (US)     8 / 21       
It was a supremacy DUN DUN DUN!
Reexyyl
Mortal
posted 28 February 2010 04:05 AM EDT (US)     9 / 21       
1:27 with Cronos, a strat with a friend 2 vs 2 ( on Anatolia )
In fact, he just give me 90 food, at the beginning of the game, because atlantean start with 311 food !
Up Leto, and crush...with Leto. I attack the man opposite to my mate. Why a strat like this ?
- Myth Units of Leto take only two pops, unlike myth Units of Promethe who take three. I don't have enough wood and gold for build house : I have to product Ums.
Morever, product of Ums is limited by your favors. And Leto's Ums cost less favor than Promethée's Ums.
They have a great armor against Tcs, and they can regenerate and resurrect themselves without Up ! [ In fact I don't know why there is an up because they already can do it ]
- On Anatolia, on the man opposite of my mate, because my mate can have a good eco ( missing 90 food ) with the water :
I deconstruct the port so no fight on the water for my mate.
Finally he can help me ealry. Very fun to play but in advance I think ^^
[ Your only one villager have to do : food, then gold, then food, etc :
Ums cost gold, but before u have enough favors, u must try to make an other villager.]

I hope I was quite clear ^^

[Sorry for my english : Im french. Tell me what I write wrong and I will learn fast ^^]

[This message has been edited by Reexyyl (edited 02-28-2010 @ 04:08 AM).]

DeathAndPain
Mortal
posted 01 March 2010 10:52 AM EDT (US)     10 / 21       
While I consider the basic value of your strategy as arguable, picking Leto over Prometheus is definitely a mistake (as always for Kronos).
Myth Units of Leto take only two pops, unlike myth Units of Promethe who take three. I don't have enough wood and gold for build house ... Morever, product of Ums is limited by your favors. And Leto's Ums cost less favor than Promethée's Ums.
But you get the first myth unit for free upon hitting classical age, and you will get it even if overpop. A single Promethean is way stronger than a single Automaton (factor in his offsprings), and with regard to the crappiness of your economy after a 1:27 classical, the additional free firepower is a welcome gift.

Also remember that Prometheus gives you free military in the form of three oracle heroes that can fight for you right after hitting classical age. Again, you have pretty much no resources to pay for any troops, so there can hardly be anything better than free military to attack with at 1:27.

Darkness is a state of mind
Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
Reexyyl
Mortal
posted 01 March 2010 02:14 PM EDT (US)     11 / 21       
I agree with u, at 1.27 it's better to have 4 free units than only one. I tested it (this strategy ) with Prometheus, but I think it create more problems than Leto :
With Leto, U can have 3 Um's and 2 villagers before build house.
With Prometheus your héroes take 6 population. Your villager take 3. Your Mu Take three. You have 12 population.
You can't build villager (you don't have enough even if you put your one villager on food during the passage), so you do a second myth units.
But, before make a second villager ( for restart your economy ), u have to build a house. It takes very long time.

So, in fact,enven if at 1.27 your are better with Prometheus, there is a little time ( I think between 2,30 minutes and 4 minutes )during your opponent can "heal" himself because you have got nothing. The rush isnt graduated. You hurt strong at beginning, then u "use" your military, and later and later your ally can help you. But you still have nothing (or 1 Mu with 2 baby Mu )and I can't help him. 2 vs 1 on him, it's finish.


With Leto, it's graduated. 1,2,3 Mu, villager, house. And when (thanks god ) your ally can help you, you have still all yours Automaton, and, its very important, the beginning of a new economy.

I don't know if my strategy is arguable (thanks for this new word ^^ ), but if it is, I think it's with Leto. Try it, it's fun ( but hard ^^ ), and u will see what god is the best for that.

oh, its other thing, but I saw that.
quoted from Mr Martel :"Deathmatch under 8 seconds easy."

easy ? try it ^^. I did 8, maybe I can do 7, but not less.

[Sorry for my english : Im french. Tell me what I write wrong and I will learn fast ^^]
Mr Martel
Mortal
posted 01 March 2010 04:39 PM EDT (US)     12 / 21       
DeathAndPain
Mortal
posted 03 March 2010 09:42 AM EDT (US)     13 / 21       
So, in fact,enven if at 1.27 your are better with Prometheus, there is a little time ( I think between 2,30 minutes and 4 minutes )during your opponent can "heal" himself because you have got nothing.
You having 4 free military units at 1:27 and nothing at 2:30 means that you smoked up your stuff between 1:27 and 2:30, which is a mistake. You will want to attack outside TC fire only, preferably his hunters (if you can locate them), his wood cutters, or at least his houses/towers. Again, I do not think that this is really a good strategy, but it should easily be better than having to produce stuff with an economy that allowed for a 1:27 advance. Your production will be so horribly slow that your opp will catch up before you manage to mount a decent army, and then beat you to kingdom come due to his superior economy.
And when (thanks god ) your ally can help you
Unless you expect him to send over his starting vills to fight for you, he won’t. After passing you his starting food, he is not gonna reach classical age anytime soon. You will win your rush alone or not at all.
I don't know if my strategy is arguable (thanks for this new word ^^ ), but if it is, I think it's with Leto.
You do not seem to have understood the true meaning of that word yet. Make sure to look it up in a dictionary.

Darkness is a state of mind
Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
Reexyyl
Mortal
posted 03 March 2010 10:37 AM EDT (US)     14 / 21       
I don't think we can do less Mr martel ^^

Death, I think arguable is : There are some reasons to say that this strategy is "good", and some/more reasons to say that this strategy is bad.

For the rush, did you try it ? with Leto and Prometheus ?
Im not an "expert", I know that ^^, but im still thinking that I should take Leto.
My ally only give me 90 food. With the water, he can up, not very early, but its correct. he has Seth, so with SS Its very help me. ( two eggy heroes, Mu, animals)

[Sorry for my english : Im french. Tell me what I write wrong and I will learn fast ^^]

[This message has been edited by Reexyyl (edited 03-03-2010 @ 10:44 AM).]

Husker
Mortal
posted 03 March 2010 11:39 AM EDT (US)     15 / 21       
And when (thanks god ) your ally can help you
Unless you expect him to send over his starting vills to fight for you, he won’t. After passing you his starting food, he is not gonna reach classical age anytime soon. You will win your rush alone or not at all.
Why do you think the only help his ally can send is in the form of military villagers?

Gp's or some sort of army, since I assume this is not Sims?

Like Reexyyl said reaching a decent classical age time is still very possible, especially on water. It sounds like Rex is talking about his partner being set who can achieve 3:50 on water. So -90 food this slows him down what, 20 seconds? A 4:10 with anubis is still very respectable and tough to beat.

Not the victory but the action;
Not the goal but the game;
In the deed the glory
Eddy_Current
Mortal
posted 03 March 2010 12:59 PM EDT (US)     16 / 21       
You don't know what your talking about.

Prometheus >> Leto no matter the strat

4.10 Anubis if u give away 90 food early on isnt respectable nor tough to beat
DeathAndPain
Mortal
posted 04 March 2010 03:18 AM EDT (US)     17 / 21       
@Husker: Yes, make sure you actually understand what we are talking about before adding your 5 cents...
Death, I think arguable is : There are some reasons to say that this strategy is "good", and some/more reasons to say that this strategy is bad.
Basically correct, but the usual usage of this word (in all instances I have seen it being used) the emphasis is on the aspect that the strategy (in this case) is to be doubted. „Doubtful“ appears to be an adequate synonym. Re-read your response to what I wrote with that in mind.
Im not an "expert", I know that ^^, but im still thinking that I should take Leto.
If you do not believe me, thene take Eddy Current’s advice. His skill is very high, at least bordering to elite status (especially with regard to the low number of players still playing this game).

Darkness is a state of mind
Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
Husker
Mortal
posted 04 March 2010 11:54 AM EDT (US)     18 / 21       
Nice try to weasel out of your comments Death, but you should have changed your comment from this:
@Husker: Yes, make sure you actually understand what we are talking about before adding your 5 cents...
To this:

@AoMHeaven I am sorry for the stupidity of my recent comments. I am working on making more intelligent posts and and I realize that people can send help in ways OTHER than sending villagers, and that -90 food still allows for a decent advance time.

I don't know my titans, so I don't give advice about TT specifics. Just general courtesy.

And in your case, it appears you don't know how to play the game at all. So please don't comment about the game and give people absolutely terrible advice about it. General courtesy right?

And Eddy(jijgeeft?),

A 4:10 anubis IS tough to beat.

Not the victory but the action;
Not the goal but the game;
In the deed the glory

[This message has been edited by Husker (edited 03-04-2010 @ 09:28 PM).]

HailToTheOboe
Bitten by a radioactive ostrich
posted 04 March 2010 12:18 PM EDT (US)     19 / 21       
A 4:10 anubis IS tough to beat.
On medi, yes. Without giving away 90 food, yes.

When I watched the recs of isis 3:5x medi advances, I see that they can't sustain making kebs from 2 docks continuously, and can't keep TC active with only 3 fishing ships. With snakes and the early advance you can get the upperhand very fast, but you're balancing on the edge of a knife. When you lose 90 food, not only do you need to gather 90 more food before advancing, but you need to change your BO to avoid idle TC time which will mean fewer fishing ships etc etc so even if you can make it by 4:10, your eco is going to be even weaker than usual, and I'm not sure that it would be respectable anymore (and if the map is ana or midgard, it wasn't really respectable in the first place).

The 90 food super rush is a cute idea, and if it works for you, then by all means try it, but I would recommend a more conventional double-team that can end ana or midgard 2v2s quickly without taking enormous risks. If one person goes water, and his teammate does a land rush vs the same guy, you can cripple him very quickly, then focus the double team on the other guy.

I also think that it would be generally better to advance at a normal time and use ally tribute for a stronger rush instead of a faster rush, because the later the ally sends the tribute, the smaller an impact it has on his own eco.
Husker
Mortal
posted 04 March 2010 12:36 PM EDT (US)     20 / 21       
Midgard is different because a 4:10 advance isn't that great of an idea.

But the thing with set is he gets free hunt, so he can keep up eco/idle tc time. And he can also use those animals, especially on anatolia, to bother the dock builders of the opponent.

When pulled off correctly you can 'dock' block him in the absolute best case, or just delay him enough for you to take a firm hold on water.

I guess anytime you rush you are balancing on the edge of a knife. One bad fight and chances are you are gonna lose the game. Its just that those 18+ people are very good at being able to balance their economy and military.

And if you advance that fast + snakes, odds are your opponents eco isn't doing so hot either with little to no fish. =/

Not the victory but the action;
Not the goal but the game;
In the deed the glory

[This message has been edited by Husker (edited 03-04-2010 @ 12:37 PM).]

Reexyyl
Mortal
posted 04 March 2010 01:45 PM EDT (US)     21 / 21       
Death : Ok I understood, its not as bad as I imaginated ^^
Finally, I think that we can test it in game. Im not an expert ( 1700 in the very very very best case ^^ ), and I will let you try the rush.
For me, Leko is better. But for you (people on this forum), I think you are better, so you will do better than me with Prometheus.
Any volunteers for do this strat with me on ESO ?
What are your nicknames ?
(all of you, death, husker, hail, eddy, if you are capable of play with noob ) Tgis will be fun ^^ ( I hope )

[Sorry for my english : Im french. Tell me what I write wrong and I will learn fast ^^]
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