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Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy and General Discussion » Loki vs Zeus
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Topic Subject:Loki vs Zeus
lostrozzacavalli
Mortal
posted 10 May 2011 12:27 PM EDT (US)         
I've had a few games lately against Zeus and I've always lost. His army of hop/tox is just impossible to kill with RC/throwing axemen.. If I try to rush no matter what he just comes in my town and deletes it from the map with his hoplites.
Any suggestions?
Keep in mind that I'm a very low rated player (~1550)..

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BSU_DoLhades
Mortal
posted 10 May 2011 02:08 PM EDT (US)     1 / 10       
lol, thats odd

just spam-grade your RC and TA, then he cant win so much

i guess then you want to get heroic and replace your RC with the Huskarls, and make sure you hold the hoplites with the TA and out-flank with your huskarls, and if possible, use some husks to destroy his military base too

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buppy
Mortal
(id: pubby8)
posted 10 May 2011 02:26 PM EDT (US)     2 / 10       
No BSD, it's not odd - zeus units are much better than norse units.

Try to keep your units alive and raid him constantly.

Your biggest problem is toxotes, so raiding wood can be beneficial.
Nirwanda
Mortal
posted 10 May 2011 02:33 PM EDT (US)     3 / 10       
Zeus is clearly the best to fight Zeus out of the Norse gods (but still by no means easy).

What you should do is go Forseti and raid his economy with your HoT hersirs to gain an economical advantage. Keep pulling them back to your healing spring and try not to lose any. With the HoT upgrade the tox can't hit you on the run and you'll force him to split his army up (which you will otherwise basically stand no chance to equally popped, hop/tox is too strong for any norse classical human army).

Keep defending your base by retreating back with them too and obviously also train RC/TA. You'll gain a lot of free favor by doing this, and depending on the game you should either invest them in hammartrolls or train a dozen battle boars to finish him off when you reach heroic (the latter is recommended but not always practical).

"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"

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lostrozzacavalli
Mortal
posted 10 May 2011 02:36 PM EDT (US)     4 / 10       
@BSU: I tried to get heroic fast but if I don't do an army at all he makes my town flat, if I do it we reach heroic at about the same time but he gets more map control and generally rushes me much more than I do

@Pubby: Right but how can I have less units on my town when his units are overpowered even in the same quantity? I mean, he just attacks me and he can destroy my buildings while I can't.

EDIT:
@Nirwanda:
Zeus is clearly the best to fight Zeus out of the Norse gods (but still by no means easy).
You mean Loki

And yeah that's about what I'm doing but it's a lot harder to do than to say.. Suppose he leaves his unbeatable army in front of my city, how can I effectively rush, and especially heal the hersirs?

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[This message has been edited by lostrozzacavalli (edited 05-10-2011 @ 03:06 PM).]

DeathAndPain
Mortal
posted 11 May 2011 03:00 AM EDT (US)     5 / 10       
Yes, Nirwanda, I also wonder how he is supposed to set up some raiding tactix against a rush god like Zeus that sets up an early army and then just barges into his home base with it.

Nonetheless Loki is also a rush god, and he can pretty much negate any minotaur-based rush tactics, so here is what I would do:

  • Build at home. Do not forward-build vs Zeus!
  • Do not go for RC/TA. Go for mass hersir. You may add some TA as your resources allow ( or - even better - use your surplus wood on Forseti's Hall of Thanes upgrade and trolls).
  • Attack early and make good use of the free myth that your hersirs generate.

    I am not sure whether Heimdall or Forseti is the better choice here. Forseti is the more defensive choice, but since hersir raiding is not likely to work vs Zeus early on, Heimdall may just be better. On the other hand Heimdall is ideal for the early decisive rush, and such a rush may not succeed vs Zeus, who is kind of a rush god himself. So my feeling is that you should still go Forseti for the spring, which is a long-term asset that remains good in any age, place it at a safe location, use his upgrade for even more hersir speed (so that your hersirs become cavalry-like and may also do decent vs his archers as long as he does not have too many of them), and then hope for hersir-spawn Einherjars.

    Of course, if he is really massing toxotes, then you will want also to have some RC, but then he will have correspondingly-less melee units. I would not start with RC early-on though. Your Loki hersirs are fast and tough enough to deal with a small toxote amount, and thanks to their free myth they should defeat hoplites nicely (not to mention minotaurs). Seeing that minos are pretty useless vs Loki, the Zeus may even decide to go Hermes, which is one more reason to go Forseti for Loki hersirs that are fast enough to catch his centaurs.

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  • lostrozzacavalli
    Mortal
    posted 11 May 2011 09:56 AM EDT (US)     6 / 10       
    Build at home. Do not forward-build vs Zeus!
    That's something I learnt pretty fast XD
    Do not go for RC/TA. Go for mass hersir. You may add some TA as your resources allow ( or - even better - use your surplus wood on Forseti's Hall of Thanes upgrade and trolls).
    I believe you're right here. After all RC are blocked by hoplites and TA are massacred by toxotes. But, especially, by not doing hersirs I would lose the great bonus Loki gives.
    Attack early and make good use of the free myth that your hersirs generate.
    I almost always suceed in reaching second age at ~4:30, but I usually only start to attack him at about 5:50-6:00, with 5-6 hersirs. At that time he's already done or is doing the barracks, therefore he builds up a decent army in a little time, making my rush very hard to do.
    I am not sure whether Heimdall or Forseti is the better choice here. Forseti is the more defensive choice, but since hersir raiding is not likely to work vs Zeus early on, Heimdall may just be better. On the other hand Heimdall is ideal for the early decisive rush, and such a rush may not succeed vs Zeus, who is kind of a rush god himself. So my feeling is that you should still go Forseti for the spring, which is a long-term asset that remains good in any age, place it at a safe location, use his upgrade for even more hersir speed (so that your hersirs become cavalry-like and may also do decent vs his archers as long as he does not have too many of them), and then hope for hersir-spawn Einherjars.
    I'm going for Forseti now, I feel his hersirs upgrade very good as it only costs wood and 10 favor, which I usually already have when I start rushing (by heroes/killing animals). I don't think Heimdall's undermine would help anyway, most of the times he doesn't even do towers.
    Of course, if he is really massing toxotes, then you will want also to have some RC, but then he will have correspondingly-less melee units. I would not start with RC early-on though. Your Loki hersirs are fast and tough enough to deal with a small toxote amount, and thanks to their free myth they should defeat hoplites nicely (not to mention minotaurs). Seeing that minos are pretty useless vs Loki, the Zeus may even decide to go Hermes, which is one more reason to go Forseti for Loki hersirs that are fast enough to catch his centaurs.
    Indeed in the 3 games I had lately the Zeus player always went Hermes, the minotaur is useless while the centaur can still rush or is anyway harder to kill that the mino.

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    Nirwanda
    Mortal
    posted 11 May 2011 11:20 AM EDT (US)     7 / 10       
    Obviously meant Zeus = Loki.



    Not sure what you mean Death. Look at the expert recs of this matchup, you'll notice that (yes Loki builds at home) but that generally the games are won by harming Zeus' economy rather than clashing in big battles where not even Loki stands a chance.

    "All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"

    Gandalf - JRR Tolkein. The Fellowship of the Ring
    BSU_DoLhades
    Mortal
    posted 11 May 2011 02:58 PM EDT (US)     8 / 10       
    @ Pubby lol

    it is odd because Loki should win if they do early rushes etc.

    Leader and Trigger Artist of Mythic Studios
    I need players for my Peloponnesian War RPG (Its Semi-Historical)
    Now quit being a bitch and quote me in your signature like Yeebaagooon used to. ~Out Reach
    buppy
    Mortal
    (id: pubby8)
    posted 11 May 2011 04:07 PM EDT (US)     9 / 10       
    Yes, because zeus lacks any sort of classical army, and doesn't have access to 2 classical GP's that can ruin a rush.
    Sam_Ham
    Mortal
    posted 28 May 2011 04:22 AM EDT (US)     10 / 10       
    @BSU lol

    why are you posting like you aren't rated 1300?


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