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Topic Subject: Poseidon's relevance and power
posted 15 December 2015 01:20 PM EDT (US)   
Just wanted to go over some Poseidon stuff and see what you guys think.

So the Egyptians and Norse all have some sort of economy/vision based starting god power. Zeus and Hades are of course both extremely powerful and dangerous gods and their economies are both without lure.

Lure provides a reliable 1000 food. I personally wait until my initial food source is exhausted. I then either pop lure at my second hunting source if I'm going aggressive or between my TC/granary if I'm going defensive.

My point is Poseidon has a more reliable and thus more powerful economy with this lure ability.

Zeus fast mythics are used and for good reason. Myrmidon/siege weapon/collosus/hero spam is pretty unstoppable. Now let's discuss what a Poseidon fast Mythic would look like. Poseidon has the lure to get through his most vulnerable phase: Archaic to Heroic. Once in heroic, you just need 300 wood for a market and then you can make use of Poseidon's cheaper market trade to get exactly what you need to advance to mythic. Furthermore, Poseidon is capable of following Aphrodite, thus being able to use her Curse and a few heroes/towers to basically negate your enemy's classic army. Furthermore Poseidon may not be able to get more total favor(which is usually useless), and he may not start with favor like Zeus, but he can get favor faster through Aphrodite's favor bonus.

We're all familiar with the Hades building spam yes? Now imagine a free army spawning from those buildings. I play aggressively with hippikon rushes often and I have a harder time taking down a Poseidon's base. Every building gives him a lesser hoplite which is massive when every unit counts. Also let's note that his stables are 85 wood, which is a very cheap price for a such a large greek building.

Now that we're lategame, wrapping up why we followed Poseidon in the first place: Lure for an easier and more reliable economy, cheaper stables for free militia guards, cheaper market trade for faster mythic age transition, faster favor for collosus spam and curse to negate a part of their classic army. Also we don't have myrmadons but hippikons work very well too, that is our signature unit after all.

It's actually very effective. Furthermore there are branches of this strategy that should be noted. A poseidon fast heroic for a scylla spam on Mediterranean is a lot more viable with his lure power allowing you to eat 1000 hunt in addition to your chickens.

Let me know what you guys think, I'm sitting at 1800 elo right now.

[This message has been edited by Nikita23 (edited 12-15-2015 @ 01:20 PM).]

Replies:
posted 16 December 2015 05:20 PM EDT (US)     1 / 12  
LightmareNikita?
posted 16 December 2015 07:45 PM EDT (US)     2 / 12  
If you are eating chickens early on medit then you either are walking a long way to eat them or you built a granary. Neither of those are good. You eat sheep on medit right by the TC and chop wood and make lots of fishing boats. Lure by the TC to get boar to eat would be good though.

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posted 17 December 2015 08:02 AM EDT (US)     3 / 12  
After reading your post, I really want to give possy a try.
I had completly forgotten about the market bonus, which can be really interesting...

Idk if it's only my impression, but when you are learning how to play, the general advice is not to use the market. But as I gain experience on this game I've realized that if you need to do something in game because it's going to give you an advantage, you should find the way to do it at any cost.
posted 17 December 2015 06:58 PM EDT (US)     4 / 12  
dont forget Hetairoi, a grup of 10 can take down buildings in no time.
posted 20 December 2015 11:43 PM EDT (US)     5 / 12  
The is definetely a really interesting idea for something to try. However I think there are a few flaws in the plan that make for the reason why the only real fast mythic is possible with Zeus.

For 1, although you can get the Aphrodite upgrade to increase your favour, it is nowhere near the same as Zeus leaving 2-3 villagers on his temple from early classic. Especially since you're having a fast mythic. That means that you will have very little time to Gap a seemingly impossible jump to the Heph weapons upgrades and collosus spam.

Considerably more important is the lacking use of your special unit for Poseidon. For overall ability and sheer building breaking power, there is nothing quite like myrmidons, especially after their mythic favour upgrade. They can battle many types of units including horses and other infantry very well. All that can really stop them is large groups of hard counter. Hippikons on the other hand are expensive and lacking especially in late game. Your only other option is hetaroi which as I'm sure you will agree are overpriced heavily.

But in my mind, the most important problem with the fast mythic is your lack of bellaphron. A good Isis or Oranos will be in mythic no more than 3 minutes after even your fast mythic. This means that you can expect mummies and atlantean chaos invokers long before the battle is over. If you wish to have any chance of stopping these, the tall, slow hero you get is far inferior to bellaphron.

Artemis could be a good option for this fast mythic idea, but if your enemy is smart enough to have enough buildings around his TC for it to hold, the entire plan is pretty much wasted as now you are with the overall weaker God.

It still seems, at least until they patch hetaroi, that the best strategy in general for Poseidon is to a 2tc fast heroic into Aphrodite followed by extensive battle/raid with the overpowered heavy Thracian hippikons.

Anyways, try it out at high level and see how it goes! I will probably give it a run myself even though it seems flawed.

-A 1900 Zeus
posted 22 December 2015 09:29 PM EDT (US)     6 / 12  
Yeah I've been trying a lot of stuff out lately.

I agree that there's nothing like the versatility and power of Bellapheron. I suppose the closest Poseidon can come up with is Atalanta who can't do the job nearly as well. Polyphemus may take a while but once he gets to his enemy he really packs a massive punch. He's like a mini-collosus who happens to be a hero with crush damage... which is actually respectable.

I've been thinking about the the civilizations a lot lately. The norse are offense-oriented because animals will not bother soldiers that build and it doesnt affect their economy since they dont have villagers running around.

Then the egyptians are defense/economy oriented because of their base god powers/free towers/easy economy.

Then the greeks who go all ways.

Thing is, with the plenty vault and collosus, greeks normally drag out games over a long time, continuously holding an economy and pumping out units.

With Egyptian mercs, any normal-paced civilization will find it nearly impossible to crack any TC.

But then.. the Norse have ragnorak, potentially countering that bullcrap.

What a complicated fking game
posted 03 January 2016 11:56 PM EDT (US)     7 / 12  
"Zeus and Hades are of course both extremely powerful and dangerous gods and their economies are both without lure. "

Can agree with this about Zeus but not sure about Hades.

"Lure provides a reliable 1000 food. I personally wait until my initial food source is exhausted. I then either pop lure at my second hunting source if I'm going aggressive or between my TC/granary if I'm going defensive."

The thing is that this "1000 food" is deceitful. Lure will often end up stealing hunt from places where you were already going to hunt anyway, but sometimes it will steal hunt from hard to reach areas or even from your opponents hunting spots, which is a win for you.

Popping your lure right between your TC and Granary is also TERRIBLE. Please don't do this. Put it either right next to the TC or right next to the granary. If you put it between the TC and the granary then when your villagers hunt then the best thing to do will be to build another granary next to the lure to minimize the walking distances, otherwise you end up gathering the hunt from the lure like half as fast as you should do because your villagers spend so long walking back and fourth top drop off resources.

"Zeus fast mythics are used and for good reason. Myrmidon/siege weapon/collosus/hero spam is pretty unstoppable. Now let's discuss what a Poseidon fast Mythic would look like. Poseidon has the lure to get through his most vulnerable phase: Archaic to Heroic. Once in heroic, you just need 300 wood for a market and then you can make use of Poseidon's cheaper market trade to get exactly what you need to advance to mythic. Furthermore, Poseidon is capable of following Aphrodite, thus being able to use her Curse and a few heroes/towers to basically negate your enemy's classic army. Furthermore Poseidon may not be able to get more total favor(which is usually useless), and he may not start with favor like Zeus, but he can get favor faster through Aphrodite's favor bonus."

Poseidon's Mythic age is the weakest of the Greek Gods. You do not have Myrmidon like Zeus, you don't have super infantry like Zeus that crush buildings like nothing, you don't have super toxotes like Hades, Shades for Hades are very very nice addition to his lategame. And furthermore, your greek heroes are no where as good as Zeus. Theseus is slightly weaker than Jason, Odysseus is much better than Hippolyta (More tanky and possibly even better damage as Hippolyta because Hipp misses so much.) and Bellerophon is absolutely amazing with his special doing 100 damage, and being able to 1 shot Myth units like Behemoths and Mummies, and take out other key units such as Siege weapons and Son of Osiris with his Special on a cooldown of just a few seconds while Poly is just a lumbering brute who is nice and very tanky but nowhere near as good to belle.

"Making use of Poseidon's Cheaper market trade" is honeslty not ideal... It is basically just correcting you badly managing your eco and bad economic planning. The market trade bonus is not that big and it is still inefficient to trade resources and it is much better to just plan your eco right in the first place and gather what you need.

"We're all familiar with the Hades building spam yes? Now imagine a free army spawning from those buildings. I play aggressively with hippikon rushes often and I have a harder time taking down a Poseidon's base. Every building gives him a lesser hoplite which is massive when every unit counts. Also let's note that his stables are 85 wood, which is a very cheap price for a such a large greek building. "

Yes you should be spamming those buildings everywhere as Poseidon but this does not make him strong lategame. Hippikon Rushes as Poseidon are good when executed well, advancing at 4:10 and getting ONLY hunting dogs, with 3 military buildings instantly up and heroes coming out and casting pestilence, it is very strong especially if they have a bad starting gold mine.

"Now that we're lategame, wrapping up why we followed Poseidon in the first place: Lure for an easier and more reliable economy, cheaper stables for free militia guards, cheaper market trade for faster mythic age transition, faster favor for collosus spam and curse to negate a part of their classic army. Also we don't have myrmadons but hippikons work very well too, that is our signature unit after all."

Hippikons take bonus damage from crennelations so they start sucking lategame due to the tower spam.

"It's actually very effective. Furthermore there are branches of this strategy that should be noted. A poseidon fast heroic for a scylla spam on Mediterranean is a lot more viable with his lure power allowing you to eat 1000 hunt in addition to your chickens."

Zeus might not have lure but on water he has faster favor for that Scylla spam. Also on meditteranean as greek PLEASE dont make a granry first thing in the archaic age... gather your pigs first before going to chickens or berries so you can get more fishing ships out and not have to spend the wood on teh granry.

1800 Elo doesn't mean crap if it is on AOM:EE because people there are so bad in ranked

from inds
"dont forget Hetairoi, a grup of 10 can take down buildings in no time."
Hetairoi are a weird unit, they are meant to be anti building cavalry but they are weak and die so fast, and they actually GET COUNTERED BY BUILDINGS once the enemy researches crennelations upgrades. Keep in mind how much a group of 10 costs, and the 30 population that you need to make them... making a bunch of helepolis/peterobolos and some normal land troops is probably better to take down buildings

Hi
posted 07 January 2016 06:32 AM EDT (US)     8 / 12  
it's no surpise it's a tier 3 god
posted 07 January 2016 07:33 AM EDT (US)     9 / 12  
Flip I would certainly not call poseidon tier 3...

The generally accepted Tier list is:
Tier 1: Zeus, Isis, Oranos, Set
Tier 2: Ra, Thor, Loki, Poseidon, Kronos, Hades
Tier 3: Gaia, Odin

Hi
posted 10 January 2016 02:54 AM EDT (US)     10 / 12  
hmmm-kay, but poseidon is the least played god at least :P (with kronos and set)
posted 11 January 2016 02:13 PM EDT (US)     11 / 12  
Least played =/= bad
Set is very very very good...

His early game is very good because shifting sands can effectively 'delete' 3 enemy villagers very early in the game, or move a whole lot of army (maybe like 7-8 full hp hoplites or like 15 toxotes or something ridiculous, 1000 hp of army essentially) + some villes if ur lucky onto an alfheim cliff or something and he has to delete them.

Deleting 3 villagers is no small deal. If you count these villagers as gathering 0.8 resources per second each, 5 minutes later they lose 300 * 2.4 = 720 resources because of missing these villagers... that's absoltuely massive. It's like being 7 human soldiers up or the difference between getting 2 armory ups and going to the heroic age.

Ra does have shifting sands as well, but he does not have nepyths which means he might get gold starved. When Set hits heroic, he can go Nephyths to get ancestors to push out to get his 2nd gold mine so he can get gold mine. Sekhmet is also not a bad God to go for at all as you get Scarabs, which are very good in egyptian wars and bone bow gives you very strong mid game power with your long range chariots.

Lategame, Set, like other egyptians, is very good as well.

Set is good early, mid, and lategame. But I do think he is a bit harder to play well than other Gods because his eco is harder to manage, but he is certainly not weak. I would put him in tier 1, actually.

Hi
posted 13 January 2016 05:39 AM EDT (US)     12 / 12  
it's least played for a reason, because most people don't like them / see other god as better gods. If you like it, okay. But if you're going to say it's overrated, I'm disagreeing
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