Draco_Wolfgand
Mortal
posted 16 May 2017 09:11 PM EDT (US)
So, I have been thinking. Generally, many people see the Norse as a rushing civilization... But... What about then as a booming civilization? I mean, let us look at what they have got on this area:
A: Dwarves. Though a bit gimmicky, since they cost gold instead of food and you are likely to have little gold in the Archaic Age, as the game progresses, their mere existance helps your gold economy, as they gather gold 20% faster. Though they gather food and wood more slowly, that is barely a penalty, as the Norse still have the option to train Gatherers, which gather food and wood the same rate as the Greek Villager. And the dwarf-related advantages go up the roof if you choose to worship Thor as a major god, situation on which it is not a bad idea to base your economy entirely around dwarves.
B: The Ox Cart. The advantages it provides are subtle, but not insignificant: As they are a mobile drop-off point for resources, if resources run out in one spot, you can just... Move the ox cart along with the gatherers to the next, rather then having to build a whole new building just to reduce the amount of time your villagers will be moving. Granted, this is nothing compared to the Atlanteans, who dont even need a drop-off spot at all, but still...
C: Infantry builders. Again, subtle but not insignificant advantage: For most civilizations, they need to have their gatherer units build their buildings, thus wasting time that could be expended, well, gathering resources. The Norse have no problem with that.
D: Something to actually boom up to. This is more questionable, but, considering the Norse can get Giants, expensive myth units of power comparable to the Colossus, on the Heroic age... Yeah, they can quickly unlock the "core" of their army. Giants also make up for the fact the Norse have otherwise somewhat poor siege when compared to the other civilizations.
Zarmi
Mortal
posted 22 May 2017 11:11 AM
EDT (US)
1 / 11
I was thinking the same thing but just for thor. Can't he just boom, get better armory upgrade and win ?
ConMeo
Mortal
posted 02 June 2017 02:39 PM
EDT (US)
4 / 11
I also think that if you would boom as a norse, your opponent is probably to just boom alongside you. Greek, Chinese and Egyptian gods would outboom you in the long run, so you'd lose your advantage. Atlantean gods might be different.
Also remember that Norse barely have any additional economy upgrades, which makes them fall behind in the long run, too. (except for Skadi's winter harvest and Thor's pig sticker obv.)
eine_Gurkensalat
Mortal
(id: eine_gurkensalad)
posted 03 June 2017 02:29 AM
EDT (US)
5 / 11
Greek doesn't have more economic upgrades
ConMeo
Mortal
posted 03 June 2017 02:48 AM
EDT (US)
6 / 11
They do have access to some in their minor god path.
eine_Gurkensalat
Mortal
(id: eine_gurkensalad)
posted 03 June 2017 07:55 AM
EDT (US)
7 / 11
They just have the fabulous but expansive aphrodites one in minor gods.
Hephaestus grants you plenty and lower some costs but this are not économic upgrades.
While norse just have skadi but each major god grant ecobomic bonuses and the civ has some advantages
Draco_Wolfgand
Mortal
posted 05 August 2017 05:59 PM
EDT (US)
9 / 11
Dwarf-based strategies indeed-Are-Slow early on, I will give it that, but I think they pay off later in the game regardless. Odin and Loki players should only even start producing dwarves at all around the Heroic age or so, when they have more resources to expend, though. Thor players may want to give theirselves the luxury to produce then since earlier on.
As for the Giants: I will give you, this IS a more relative point. I put then on simply because the point of booming is, on theory, suppose to be to save up resources to create a army of powerfull, but expensive units relatively early on, and the Giants are not a bad choice for that. They can indeed be countered by heroes, though I will point out that they can defeat most heroes in one versus one, despite not being cost effective against then: The Fire Giant in particular, boasting a combination of a massive pierce armor and a very high range, can even counter some heroes, like Priests and Hersirs, even if there are better units you could be using( Like... Well, any of the Norse human units, for one ). If you can gather the resources to train, let us say, ten fire giants, protected by ten mountain giants, little outside of a flat-out Titan will be able to stop then before they are done wrecking the enemy settlement: But this falls deep into "Easier said then done" territory, ESPECIALLY with how the Norse way to gather favor is a bit gimmicky.
Easily the best counter for any of the three Giant types would have to be Monks: On the lack of that, myth units with a one-hit KO attack: And on the lack of that, other heroes.
Draco_Wolfgand
Mortal
posted 06 August 2017 09:58 AM
EDT (US)
11 / 11
Fun fact: Despite costing 5 population, Giants are still population-effective against most units ( Mountain Giants are population-effective against any meele human unit, even the Jarl, which costs 3 population as two Jarls usually cant take on a Mountain Giant by itself, and the majority of myth units that lack a instant-kill attack. They are also actually population effective against Hersirs and potentially Priests depending on the upgrades your opponent has-Namelly, depending on whether your opponent bought Nekmeth upgrades for priests or not-And how well micro-managed the priests are. Fire Giants keep this population effective-ness against meele units, for the most part, while also being much more effective against ranged units. Though I would like to point out that Jarls and Contarius Heroes are amongst the best counters to this fearsome unit ). That is what makes a hypotethical "10 Mountain Giants + 10 Fire Giants" army so fearsome: There are just very few ways to actually handle a this large amount of giants.
Unfortunatelly, by my own admission, this army would be close to impossible to gather( Or at the very least, by the time you gather it, your opponent may realise what you are up to and start working on a appropriate counter to it ), due to what I think that is the ACTUAL main downside of a giant-based strategy: Their high favor cost. For any civilization, gathering this many favor-intensive units would be a challenge on its own right: For the Norse, it is close to impossible, because they would need to be constantly expending resources sending human units or Hersirs to their opponent camp that may or may not actually be able to cost more resources for your opponent to deal with then you are expending to make then. Loki players that choose Hel as their major goddess in the Mythic age have it a bit easier, though, because their Hersirs can randonly summon myth units in combat: But, as powerfull as this bonus can seem on paper( And as much as admittedly Loki has the best Mythic Age of any Norse major god, in my opinion ), this is not actually something that should be your main trump card, since you have no guarantee you will actually be producing the myth units you currently want, in the amount you currently need, and you will probably get a lot of Hersirs killed until you can actually produce a Giant.
So, summarising: Massing giants is a extremely difficult thing to pull off, but can let you unleash a lot of destruction if you-Do-Manage to pull it off. I have actually only a couple of months ago begun to try to use the Norse as a boom civilization, by the way. ... So, I probably-Cant-Actually pull it off all that well yet myself. If you want advice on HOW to gather such a army in a reasonable amount of time, you may want to look at someone else, at least for now.