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Strategy and General Discussion
|Topic Subject:||My personal Hades guide.|
posted 05 April 2018 10:10 PM EDT (US)
Hi there. So, I have been reading some of the guides on this very site, and looked at how they are split by Major Gods... And I tried to write one of my own. Now, I will make two disclaimers here:
A: I am not a extremely competitive player. Though I do play multiplayer, it is usually amongst friends. So, if you-Are-A competitive player you should take everything I write with a grain of salt, by my own admission.
B: Also, dont expect me to say too many details about the Archaic Age, in future guides like this on the future, not so much because I am bad at the Archaic Age, but because it is often hard for me to think of a lot to say without running the risk of repeating myself. There isnt actually much to-Do-On the Archaic Age other then get your economy set and advance to the Classical Age.
With that said, here it goes. If any of you happen to like it, you can make requests for future "guides" and I will make new threads for then
If you are plaiyng as Hades, you are probably going to turtle. That does not, however, means that you have a excuse to go slowly: In fact, your first priority as a turtle player should be to advance to the Classical Age as fast as possible. As usual, search up for sources of resources, but dont let your villagers go further from your base then they have to( For reasons that will become clear once I get to the Classical Age ). I wont give a set population number that you "have" to advance on, but I will say you should still try to advance in five minutes or less. If the worst happens and one of your opponents gets to the Classical Age before you do, cast Sentinels on your Town Center-Immediatly. They will be your only true line of defense until you get to the Classical age.
You are given the option between two gods: Athena and Ares. I personally prefer Ares for Hades because of the added bonus for archers, but there are circunstances where Athena may be preferrable. For a example: Combined with certain beefy, powerfull Myth units like the Colossus, the Restoration god power can prove to be incredibly annoiyng for your opponent to deal with and incredibly fun for you to use. This is as good of a time as any that, again, if you are going with Hades, you are probably going with a turtle strategy, and as such, you are probably going to want to stall this game to the Mythic Age: So, you should choose your minor gods considering the long term, not just what would be the most usefull at this exact secound.
Regardless of which one you choose, the Hades turtle plays really standart: The first thing you do after getting to the Classical age is wall up your surroundings. This is actually easier to do if you currently dont have your villagers too spread out, so on the short term, it is actually worth it to sacrifice a little bit of map control, over a little bit of not-having-to-worry-so-much-about raids. Then, you start researching the economical technologies, and once you are at it, build a Archery Range and start training some Toxotes. They will be usefull here both defenselly and offensivelly. And then, if you find other areas with convenient sources of resources that deserves to be claimed, send a few villagers out there, fortify the area, build a proper gathering site, and repeat. Hades does not grants any true economical bonuses( Other then his Vaults of Erebus technology, but with how slow the trickle is, you certainly arent going to be doing any rushes with it ), and remember that, as a general rule, when plaiyng as him, you-Want-The game to drag out. So take the time to setup your economy properly before moving on to the Heroic age.
Now, if you DO feel like going to the offensive: If you picked Ares, the Cyclops is a fairly powerfull myth unit. Even one or two can cause some serious damage at this early stage of the game. So, if you have already found your opponent settlement, you can send the one Cyclops you already gained for free, along with some Toxotes which can very confortably hide behind your Cyclops. This should not put too big of a dent on your economy even if it fails. If you want, you are free to train a couple of more Cyclops, but with how much food it costs, I wouldnt recommend massing then so early unless you are confident you can win the game in a single assault. On this case, use Pestilence to make it harder for your opponent to react. Athena can use a "close enough" tactic with her Minotaurs, but it wont be as good, and Restoration just doesnt have the same crippling punch as Pestilence if you are suppose to be using it to take a unexpecting enemy out of the game.
This time, your choice is between Apollo and Aphrodite. Which one you pick depends on how confident you feel about the economy you setup for yourself on the Classical Age. If you still fear getting outboomed, Aphrodite is the goddess for you: If not, Apollo can prove a bit better on the long run.
If you choose Aphrodite, you should immediatly start working on researching her Myth Technologies to strenghten your economy: In addition, you probably chose her because you want to swiftly advance to the Mythic Age( Where Hades, and the Greeks in general, are very powerfull ), so if you attack, dont send too many units out at once, and try not to waste needless resources. Luckily, the Hades tactic of "Hide your archers behind walls and have then just shoot down your opponent" Is quite good at dealing with raiders with minimun resource waste. "Curse" is not TOO powerfull of a God Power, but it can be used to quickly deal with a small group of raiders, and then you get some pigs, which you may or may not currently need, but... Hey, free pigs!
If you choose Apollo, you can, if you desire, already start attacking right here right now: Although, since the Greeks usually hit a awkward power void on the Heroic Age when compared to other civilizations, you should consider the matchup. I would personally prefer to still stall to the Mythic age regardless. If you do, make sure to make good use of Underworld Passage, perhaps using a Pegasus as to set things up for you. Since the god you chose previously will definitively have at least one upgrade related to infantry, your army will probably be composed of a typical combination of infantry and archers: Most likely Hoplites and Toxotes, of course, though you can consider using the Heroic Age units, depending on what you believe your opponent is using. Remember to only use Underground Passage if you believe you can swiftly take over the area you are using it at, as the Passage can only be used once and cannot be repaired, so if you let it get destroyed it is all over.
Here, the choice is between Hephaestus and Artemis. I personally prefer Hephaestus because of a certain... Combo, he grants access to for Hades that I really like, but Artemis can be usefull, if you believe you can finish the match quickly... Then again, depending, you may-Not-Want to actually finish the match quickly.
What makes Hephaestus so powerfull is just how good the Colossos, with its sheer bulk, is at protecting Hades archers.( Not to mention... Just how powerfull the Colossus is in general ) Personally, I rather enjoy a Colossus/Gastraphetes combination. The Gastraphetes very long range lets it catch opponents who try to abuse hit-and-run tactics against the Colossus, while the Colossus acts as a wall absorbing attacks for the otherwise frail Gastraphetes. This is not a combo without counters, and some of its counters can make it fall flat on its face, but if your opponent just didnt had anything sitting on its base, it doesnt take more then, say, five Colossus and ten Gastraphetes to level a settlement or two. The sheer amount of destruction this combination can bring to a opponent who just didnt prepared for it is certainly what makes it fun to use. As usual, if you plan on going with it, dont be on a rush: You will want both of the core units of your army fully upgraded here, and with Hephaestus Abundance, you may be able to afford it. Other things worth noticing are: As previously mentioned, if you chose Athena, and managed to save up her God Power up until this point, feel free to use it as soon as your Colossus get too wounded. Similarly, if you chose Apollo, you can use him to get your Colossus to your opponent base faster, as Colossus move rather slowly.
However, Artemis is not a bad godess to pick either. Other then granting-Yet another-Upgrade to your Archers( Hades with Artemis, Apollo, and Ares archer upgrades will have its Toxotes as, purely and simply, the hardest hitting human archers in the game ), Artemis also grants the powerfull Earthquake power, and the Chimera which, although weaker then the Colossus in termw of bulk, is much faster and still pretty meaty. If your opponent has been going with a turtle strategy himself, Artemis is probably going to be the best pick: Just use Earthquake to quickly break down his fortifications as you send your troops to finish the job. It really depends on how quickly you plan on finishing the game, though Hephaestus Abundance is better in long games, which Hades specializes in.
Do NOT let your opponent build a Titan Gate. This goes for almost everyone, really, but especially Hades, as Hades is a god that likes forcing long games, what makes this kind of situation more likely. I would go as far as to say it is not a bad idea to save your Underworld Passage to preciselly this kind of situation, though of course, depending on how you play, you may prefer to just... You know, win before it gets to that point.
Extra notes: Counters to Hades.
Generally, the best way to handle Hades is, if you cant attack him before he fortifies, to stop him from expanding. On the Classical Age, just build fortifications around his fortifications: That way, that will force him to pick between either going on the offensive earlier then he planned to, or to get stuck with a weak economy through the game. In addition, Hades really does not appreciate being forced to handle "disaster" god powers, especially Earthquake. These two help handling most turtle strategies, granted, but Hades is usually a turtling god, so
Most of the time, Hades troops will be made out of mainly archers supported by infantry, or sometimes archers supported by a meaty myth unit as its cavalry is fairly weak. As such, if you happen to be plaiyng as a civilization who has access to a unit who can handle both infantry and cavalry well( Like, say, the Norse Jarls. Which also happen to be surprisingly decent at handling most myth units ), using then is another way to force Hades players out of their confort zone. If you are plaiyng as a non-Greek civilization, it is likely your civilization unlocks several powerfull human units on the Heroic age, whereas Hades, as any Greek civilization, tends to find itself at somewhat of a powervoid there: So you should know when to truly focus on your attack. On the Mythic Age, pay attention to what gd your opponent chose: If it chose Artemis, you should try to build a army as quickly as possible to be able to defend from Earthquake, as it doesnt deal much damage to human units. If it chose Hephaestus, then, since the Colossus is a costly unit that takes a while to mass and upgrade, you can either A: Just start attacking now, bringing on your siege to break Hades fortifications, and not give it a chance to use the powerfull combination I described above, or B: If your civilization has access to such a thing, try setting up some myth units with a one hit KO attack, like Medusa or the Mummy. These are by far the best counter to the Colossus: In fact, more so then Heroes( Almost all heroes lose in individual combat to a Colossus: Even the Greek heroes are lucky if they can kill two in a row. )
[This message has been edited by Draco_Wolfgand (edited 04-05-2018 @ 10:18 PM).]
06 April 2018 09:33 AM
1 / 2
and cannot be repairedyou can repair underworld passage, use the repair icon after clicking on villager and click on the passage - they will start repairing it
14 April 2018 06:42 PM
2 / 2
i don't see how you can win if you don't take a second tc very soon
hades has the big advantage to be able to defend an isolated tc because it's more strong and you have the sentinels... and if you want a turtle strategy you'll need a decent area, impossible without 2 tcs.
about the age 2 gods i really don't see the point to take athena, since ares upgrades are much better, as well as receiving a cyclop... the only point i see is using restoration on buildings since it's very efficient and can save ressources as well as villager time.
age 3 i think that aphrodite is much better in late game, because of the buildings constructed faster and villagers faster, it allows you to invade the battlefield with powerfull towers or simply military buildings very close, and to win the "war of buildings" which is the map control.
age 4 i have 2 parameters, as hades player.
If you are invaded and your ennemy is preparing a menacing front base you will need earthquake asap.
If he don't build anything but simply you are really invaded by units everywhere, take artemis too, because the chimera is incredible in defense as it can move away when it has difficulties, and go after most units and kill siege weapons.
The fast upgrade on archers is welcome too, compared to the slow but better complete and cheap armory of hephaestus.
If you are also close to the victory, it can be interesting to take artemis just to finish it rapidly.
In other case, that means balanced late games or small advantages, I would prefer Hephaestus.
But it was the FIRST parameter, the second is really about the civs you are fighting.
In my opinion, hephaestus is necessary good to counter attys, egypt and greeks while artemis is better against norse and chinese.
Indeed, colossus + gastraphetes is necessary to have a chance against egyptian builsings and siege weapons (don't forget the bonus on crush attack of gastraphete with hephaestus).
If there are no mummies, egypt feel powerless against colossus with pierce attack of priests.
Against attys, it's because colossus are very good tanks, and attys need a lot of ressources to make heroes in order to beat them, and against heroes archers are very well. So you spend less ressources, and with the plenty you take a big economical advantage, allowing you to invade with buildings
Against greek, it's also for economical reasons, but it's less important than the two other above
Then against norse you know that they don't fear colossus, because of their hack attack army and heroes, and their buildings that are so weak that colossus spend more time to deplace btw each than actually attack them.
on the other hand, you will need a solid amount of archers and hypaspists, not only gastraphetes because they are too expensive and eventually less powerfull in battles. And chimeras are terrible against norse, since they can reach ballistas and they win against fire giants. They can also destoy groups of units constructing a building.
Finally, against chinese i prefer artemis because of the horrible raids you can do with chimeras. Chinese doesn't have a sufficient amount of heroes to counter chimeras, and with greek you can easily mass them. Then against villagers it's terrible with their power, and you can also destroy gardens which are very expensive and weak.
And you definitively need chimeras to beat fire lances, used with prodromos which deals a lot against fire lances because of their bonus, but are too weak.
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