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Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy and General Discussion » Requests
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Topic Subject:Requests
1ArCHeR1
Mortal
posted 20 March 2002 06:44 PM EDT (US)         
I have a few requests for AOM. It's been a long while since I've posted in here, and I just want to give two major request for ES:

1. Have a hotkey (we'll say ctrl) that you hold, then order a group of units to attack or move to something, they will go at their own speed, instead of the slowest units speed. Ex: an enemy tries to use a tornado on your army. You select the whole group, hold ctrl, and tell them to run away, that way, they can all get away as fast as they can, instead of as fast as the slowest unit.

2. HAVE AN ATTACK-MOVE COMMAND! Why on earth do you not want to do this? I don't want to have to tell my hoplites to keep going after they finnish off a buiding! I want them to attack everything they see until they get to the center of the other guys base. Give me the reasons it's "too complicated" to do this, and I'll give you solutions. Other RTS games have this, and they don't have any trouble.

BTW: Am I right when I say you have stopped using "barracks" and changed its name to other things? GUYS AREN'T TRAINED AT BARRACKS! THEY SLEEP THERE! THAT'S IT!


"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun, than you can with just a kind word." -The Coolest New Yorker (Robert DeNiro)
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AuthorReplies:
c r e e z y
Mortal
(id: Hairy Scary Man)
posted 20 March 2002 06:48 PM EDT (US)     1 / 22       
no need to yell ...for the "attack-move" idea do u mean like in Starcraft where u can choose attack for the units and select sumwhere on the map and theyll attack anythin and everythin til they get to that spot? cuz if u r i like that...AOM would b cool with it and itd b very useful durin battle

Artanis
Mortal
posted 20 March 2002 06:56 PM EDT (US)     2 / 22       
That is why Blizzard is infinitly better than ES (joke). Waypoints (that's what they are called) are one of the coolest parts of StarCraft that AOW (age of whatever) doesn't have.
Stone Minotaur
Mortal
posted 20 March 2002 06:57 PM EDT (US)     3 / 22       
1: not a bad idea
2:They have this in all Age games, your men attack a building, it is destroyed, they see another one and destroy it. If you are worried about LOS, I think they got rid of it, I'm not sure.

And yes, no need to yell


"In the centre was Phobos (Fear) worked in adamant, unspeakable, staring backwards with eyes that glowed with fire. His mouth was full of teeth in a white row, fearful and daunting, and upon his grim brow hovered frightful Eris (Strife) who arrays the throng of men ...
XCrash_Fish
Mortal
posted 20 March 2002 06:58 PM EDT (US)     4 / 22       
Just group your units according to speeds and send them separatly, no harm done.

Attack move is very useful... I play EE, and it is very useful as you army can get slaughtered without it. Yes it has its bads, they chase after vilies when they could be killing aomeone else. But I alwayts like it. It would be a good addition...

they are trying to make distinct individual cultures, so why not give buildings special names? I dont really understand what you mean by that third think so im not going to elaborate on my answer


Though I than He - may longer live
He longer must - than I -
For I have but the power to kill,
Without--the power to die--
The only reoccurence in every AoM games you lose, is you.
Kaziglu Bey
Mortal
posted 21 March 2002 00:12 AM EDT (US)     5 / 22       
1) Just bring back the Horde Formation from AoK beta.

2) Yes, it would be nice. But it has its downsides too. Performance could be one, with all the extra pathing having to be done. Could perhaps be solved another way by having the most offensive stance run a check sometimes (at not too tight intervals to avoid hog'ing the CPU) even when moving. I would perhaps prefer that over having to hold down Ctrl or some other key and klick. Giving your army the command to advance agressively through the entire enemy camp would only work when you overpower the enemy totally and have more or less won already. An above newbie skilled player with some defensive to speak of could otherwise be quite a challenge to those berserking troops.

Artanis: Waypoints have been in there since AoE, but could of course be improved upon even more.

[This message has been edited by Kaziglu Bey (edited 03-21-2002 @ 00:16 AM).]

XCrash_Fish
Mortal
posted 21 March 2002 07:20 AM EDT (US)     6 / 22       
I dont think most of you understand #2, lets say you are moving your army across the map. Doesnt it really suck if half way through they get slaughtered by the enemy, and they dont attack back, just keep on marching? Attack move solves this by letting them attack on their own command during a march... this is VERY helpful.

It doesnt take much to Ctrl click... if you cant do that you are very lazy


Though I than He - may longer live
He longer must - than I -
For I have but the power to kill,
Without--the power to die--
The only reoccurence in every AoM games you lose, is you.
Kaziglu Bey
Mortal
posted 21 March 2002 08:49 AM EDT (US)     7 / 22       
The advantage of having it as a stance is that one could make consecutive "attack-moves" with ease. Combined with waypoints it makes for an even simpler approach. And lastly the really nice thing comes in the possibility of moving a group of units with different stances in a group, having perhaps only the light cavalry on this extra agressive behaviour. But that's just how it could work and if it doesn't work in a similar fashion already it's probably too late to mix it in.

Just because a multitude of games has used the Ctrl-key doesn't mean that it's the most efficient way to do it in this game. One might argue that smart villagers are for the lazy people too, but how many would really want to be without that?

1ArCHeR1
Mortal
posted 21 March 2002 04:31 PM EDT (US)     8 / 22       

Quote:

2:They have this in all Age games, your men attack a building, it is destroyed, they see another one and destroy it. If you are worried about LOS, I think they got rid of it, I'm not sure.

What on earth are you talking about?

Quote:

they are trying to make distinct individual cultures, so why not give buildings special names? I dont really understand what you mean by that third think so im not going to elaborate on my answer

I'm talking about how in every RTS the infantry are trained at a barracks, but in real life, infantry just sleep in a barracks.

Quote:

2) Yes, it would be nice. But it has its downsides too. Performance could be one, with all the extra pathing having to be done.

I don't see any other game having this trouble.

Quote:

Just group your units according to speeds and send them separatly, no harm done.

A.) What if I want them to all be in the same group?
B.) What if they're just being rallied somewhere, and I want them to get out of the way of something as quickly as possible?
C.) This feature was meant to be for situations that surprise you. If you are grouping by speed, you are expecting a tornado to strike.

Quote:

Just because a multitude of games has used the Ctrl-key doesn't mean that it's the most efficient way to do it in this game.

My ctrl key idea was for the unit speed thing, and since all the other RTS games don't move the same speed like the age series, they wouldn't have that. If you are talking about the attack move thing, I never said how to do it, I just said do it. I personally prefer the A+right click method from the Craft series.


"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun, than you can with just a kind word." -The Coolest New Yorker (Robert DeNiro)
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1ArCHeR1
Mortal
posted 22 March 2002 07:20 PM EDT (US)     9 / 22       
Ahem.

*lil bump*


"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun, than you can with just a kind word." -The Coolest New Yorker (Robert DeNiro)
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Last_Knight
Mortal
posted 23 March 2002 05:09 PM EDT (US)     10 / 22       
WB Archer, how are you?
*didn't read most replies, sorry*

1. Sounds cool.
Both options (slowest speed and different speeds) are useful in some cases but are disadvantaged in others, so why not enjoying both worlds .
2. It would be nice, but only as an option.
Sometimes, your units destroy a building safely, move attack another while you don't notice, and then you find they were all killed by a castle nearby.

They changed "barracks" to "Academy", as well as I know.



The Last Knight
Grasshoppers are cheap, nutritious, tasety,Kosher and easy to dissect
Jazzman
Mortal
posted 23 March 2002 11:38 PM EDT (US)     11 / 22       

One catch with (2) is that it introduces many new strategies to the game, i.e. the "Unwilling Ambush", where one unit could lead an entire army into the middle of a trap unbeknownst to the Army's controller, because the army was on "Attack Move".

This wasn't a major issue in Starcraft, cause you could only have 12 units per group, but imagine your force of 40+ cavalry getting lured in between two castles and a pile of high-end MUs

Me personally, I'd prefer to have my units in the right place at the right time and be slaughtered, as opposed to being in the wrong place at the wrong time and getting completely annihalated (I didn't spell that right.... Oh well )

1ArCHeR1
Mortal
posted 27 March 2002 07:25 AM EDT (US)     12 / 22       
Some more stuff:

It's Heracles(Greek SP) NOT Hercules (Roman SP).

I just want to make sure that farms are more easily built around TCs & granaries. I don't think there is any way to make farms look good around mills & TCs, b/c of the 3 tile farms, & 2 tile mills, & 5 tile TCs.

BTW, Why did you do that in the first place?


"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun, than you can with just a kind word." -The Coolest New Yorker (Robert DeNiro)
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FuTuRe_ViRuS
Mortal
posted 27 March 2002 11:30 AM EDT (US)     13 / 22       
I liked a lot the #1. I've never tought about that.

And, why did you copy my location????
How can you be right behind me, if I'M right behind you????

[This message has been edited by FuTuRe_ViRuS (edited 03-27-2002 @ 11:30 AM).]

TheShadowDawn
Mortal
posted 27 March 2002 11:46 AM EDT (US)     14 / 22       

Quote:

1. Have a hotkey (we'll say ctrl) that you hold, then order a group of units to attack or move to something, they will go at their own speed, instead of the slowest units speed. Ex: an enemy tries to use a tornado on your army. You select the whole group, hold ctrl, and tell them to run away, that way, they can all get away as fast as they can, instead of as fast as the slowest unit.

Simplify, simplify. Optimum unit management comes from separating all of your units and never at any time having more than one unit type selected, or failing that, having only units of the same type selected [say, Light Cav and Knights, or Crossbows and Longbows.].

Sure, if you're trying to escape a tornado, I can see the point. But that's one rare situation in a huge game.

Quote:

2. HAVE AN ATTACK-MOVE COMMAND! Why on earth do you not want to do this? I don't want to have to tell my hoplites to keep going after they finnish off a buiding! I want them to attack everything they see until they get to the center of the other guys base. Give me the reasons it's "too complicated" to do this, and I'll give you solutions. Other RTS games have this, and they don't have any trouble.

Attack move in Starcraft had it's drawbacks, since the control AI was nowhere near as smart as in AoK; which meant that if you selected regular move, units wouldn't attack anything, unless it attacked them first, at close range, while it was stationary. Pretty dumb. Meant you ALWAYS had to use an extra hotkey. In AoK, while there was no attack move, once a unit had reached within LOS of its destination, the regular pathfinding/targeting was immediately enabled. Your unit would instantly pick a target, even if it was 15 tiles away.

Attack move had plenty of drawbacks. The improperly constructed AI in Starcraft meant that in certain situations if units encountered a target to attack - even if that was just a Wraith or a Scout flying past - their pathfinding would be reset and they wouldn't make their way to their final objective, or they would head off on a new direction, which the player of course if not watching, would let his units march to their deaths.

EE has attack move, and I use it for one thing only, and that is rushing. Once I have my 8 or so gun cav in position, I hold down ctrl and set waypoints on each of my enemy's resource gather sites. Ordinarily, I end up micro'ing these units anyway.


TheShædøwDåwn
If you're like me, then it's possible you're a clone generated from my stolen DNA. I suggest you turn yourself in for destruction immediately.
Lord_Spud
Mortal
posted 27 March 2002 01:18 PM EDT (US)     15 / 22       
1ARCHER1 if you'd like to nit-pick.....
"It's Heracles(Greek SP) NOT Hercules (Roman SP)."
t's NOT Heracles, it's HeraKles witha K

Lord Of The Rings
AOE ROR AOK AOC AOM
Pink Floyd, Led Zepplin, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Rolling Stones, RUSH

1ArCHeR1
Mortal
posted 29 March 2002 08:42 PM EDT (US)     16 / 22       

Quote:

And, why did you copy my location????

I have been a forumer here MUCH longer than you. SO IT YOU WHO IS THE COPYCAT!

Sure Attack-move has its drawbacks, but it's better than NOT having it available at all. Maybe they could put 2 attack move commands: Attack buildings, and avoid buildings.

Quote:

t's NOT Heracles, it's HeraKles witha K

We're both right. B/c it's translated from Greek to English, K's & C's are almost intercahngable. I'm just talking about the missing sylable(for some reason that spelling looks wierd, and I don't know why) in the Roman spelling.


"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun, than you can with just a kind word." -The Coolest New Yorker (Robert DeNiro)
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deadlydentures
Mortal
posted 30 March 2002 02:40 AM EDT (US)     17 / 22       
1) http://aom.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=1,1802,30,all

Howabout that button

Quote:

"Yea capitalism!" -Austin Powers


I remember when you put that in there, a big argument over socialism vs. capitalism i think. Long ago.

i think barracks is suffiecent. Maybe Academy(sp) would be better, but its all good to me.


The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference.
The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference.
And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.

[This message has been edited by deadlydentures (edited 03-30-2002 @ 02:40 AM).]

1ArCHeR1
Mortal
posted 01 April 2002 09:46 PM EDT (US)     18 / 22       

Quote:

Howabout that button

Except the speed button could be used for other reasons, and like IV said, what if they "Scatter" into a fortress.

Quote:

i think barracks is suffiecent

But, then again, so is "Infantry Building" or "That place where those guys on foot are made."

I don't want "sufficient. I want realistic (at least when it comes to names).


"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun, than you can with just a kind word." -The Coolest New Yorker (Robert DeNiro)
<A><R>
deadlydentures
Mortal
posted 01 April 2002 10:41 PM EDT (US)     19 / 22       
damn. Well, whatever ES names it, its good with me.

of cource many names of buildings must change. Town Center? How many towns have "Town Centers where they poop out villagers? It should be called something else, many cloning vats, cuz eveyone looks pretty much the same, either male or female.

And I didn't know mills were where scientists got together and figured out how to improve farming techniques, or to store food.
(I really don't know)
Personally, i'm really stretching both of those, so i'll just shut up now\.


The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference.
The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference.
And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.
redcoat219
Mortal
posted 02 April 2002 10:11 AM EDT (US)     20 / 22       
i think town center isnt a bad name.... its where everyone used to hand out and about.. makes sense vills would come from them : P
deadlydentures
Mortal
posted 02 April 2002 07:37 PM EDT (US)     21 / 22       
yeah, i thinks its a good name too.
Thats my point kinda. All the names work in a way. It doesn't really matter anyway.

The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference.
The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference.
And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.
1ArCHeR1
Mortal
posted 03 April 2002 09:18 AM EDT (US)     22 / 22       
Town Center is fine. A mill is where grain was turned into flour. A Granary (which is what ES is using) is where grain is stored. Scientist work wherever they want to improve farming.

"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun, than you can with just a kind word." -The Coolest New Yorker (Robert DeNiro)
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