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Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy and General Discussion » Are we essentially back to square one in playing?
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Topic Subject:Are we essentially back to square one in playing?
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JackalRat
HG Alumnus
(id: BrandNewCar)
posted 30 March 2002 05:18 PM EDT (US)         
What I mean by this is when AoM comes out will be all be back to the beginning, The ES staff say the civilisations are very different from the play of AoK and even the Greeks who are supposed to be nearest to AoK play will have significant differences in play mean that we will won't have a set way to play, so all the Aok experts will have to relearn everything giving the rooks (me) a chance to compete with them? I wonder how long it will be until we have build orders and a attack which is used by a lot of people in the rated rooms on the MSN Zone. Interested on peoples thoughts and will what we know about AoK be effectively worth nothing? .
AuthorReplies:
Cloudchaser_Eagle
Mortal
posted 30 March 2002 05:27 PM EDT (US)     1 / 48       
I don't think we'll be completely at square one, since AoM still has the villies, resources, soldiers fundamentals of the other Age games. But AoM will be a terrific equalizer, and it'll allow some of the more unsung heroes amongst the zoners to rise up to new and greater things.

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DarkKnight_
Mortal
(id: PW_DarkKnight)
posted 30 March 2002 05:30 PM EDT (US)     2 / 48       
Hmm, we'll have the same buttons maybe, and basic stuff. Maybe even a similiar interface. But there will be new things that will take learning.

By the way, brandnewcar..werent you going away to college?


DK
SoR_Anarchy
Mortal
posted 30 March 2002 05:53 PM EDT (US)     3 / 48       
I think good AoK players will have an advantage over total rooks, but alot less of an advantage then the AoE experts had over rooks.

God Bless America.

I am the state.

TheShadowDawn
Mortal
posted 30 March 2002 07:49 PM EDT (US)     4 / 48       
I suspect all your basic AoK skills will translate to AoM. Balancing an economy and micro'ing vils. Prioritising unit training and tech research. Choosing military units based on what your enemy is likely to be using.

While you'll have to relearn the game mechanics themselves, how unit x fares against unit y, why it's important to get tech a on advance to age b, what situation to use god power z in...the simple things like observing and reacting you'll already have.

So in short, when AoM comes out, I'm still going to suck.


TheShdwDwn
If you're like me, then it's possible you're a clone generated from my stolen DNA. I suggest you turn yourself in for destruction immediately.
DarkKnight_
Mortal
(id: PW_DarkKnight)
posted 30 March 2002 08:09 PM EDT (US)     5 / 48       
As I learn though, I'll be better at it than AoK. I jsut got AoK in February...and came here in Feb. I still pretty much suck at it. I'll do better at AoM. At least we'll know a bit about the buttons, and maybe how to use the human units. We'll be lost over what MUs to use

DK
IR_Evil
Mortal
posted 30 March 2002 08:48 PM EDT (US)     6 / 48       
BrandNewCar go and play games like EE and Cossacks (I would mention SWBG but it's the exact same ), even though they are very different from AoK the same basic skills help you in each game (ie. micro, continuous villies etc), and I would guess AoM would be even more familiar.
Lord_Spud
Mortal
posted 30 March 2002 11:07 PM EDT (US)     7 / 48       
You guys are forgetting military advantages....High ground, choke points, natural barriers etc. These things are bound to cross over, and though those are pretty much common sense, i'm including pretty much all the basic advantages/strategies.

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Immhotep
Mortal
posted 30 March 2002 11:27 PM EDT (US)     8 / 48       

Quote:

we will won't have a set way to play, so all the Aok experts will have to relearn everything giving the rooks (me) a chance to compete with them?

Still, one of the main reasons that set experts apart from the rookies are in their fast speed and reflexes. I know this for a fact because out of many of my friends, the ones who don't have good speed and good hotkeys are always stayed behind in either rookie or inter level. The ones who are extremely fast moved up really quick to the expert levels, despite the fact that they all started out playing AOK at the same time.

IMO, experts are better than inter or rookies not because experts know better techonologies to research or they know better units combo. The experts are better because they execute much much faster. I've seen a few of my expert friends played, and it literally makes me dizzy looking at them doing Bethoven's Symphony with their keyboard, LOL!

BTW, 2 of the main mistakes of the novice who always end up at novice level are that they use the Default hotkey and middle resolution!! The default hotkeys, SUX!! Also, they use the middle resolution . Middle resolution is good for single campaign to look at beautiful sceneries or waterfalls, but when it comes to multiplayer games, the resolution MUST be on the one with the WIDEST view that gives u a panoramic view of the battle field. Any other resolution will result in your town look beautifully flat to the ground

Kong_KK
Mortal
posted 30 March 2002 11:31 PM EDT (US)     9 / 48       

Quote:

the resolution MUST be on the one with the WIDEST view that gives u a panoramic view of the battle field.

The good thing about AoM is that you don't get a wider view for cranking up the resolution.

Immhotep
Mortal
posted 30 March 2002 11:34 PM EDT (US)     10 / 48       
I'm speaking of the resolution that came with the game option.

And in AOM, despite the fact that it's 3D, it won't be a different story, because camera zooming will be just for the scenario editor for beauty touch up. For multiplayer, the camera will be locked by default, and will have the same 3 different levels of camera depth as in AOK.

Kong_KK
Mortal
posted 30 March 2002 11:44 PM EDT (US)     11 / 48       
Uh...yes I'm speaking of the same resolution too . What I meant was, people in AoK got an advantage if they played on a higher resolution. But that's not so in AoM because of it's 3d-ness. Instead you'll just get crisper graphics.
IV1066
Mortal
posted 30 March 2002 11:48 PM EDT (US)     12 / 48       

Quote:

But that's not so in AoM because of it's 3d-ness. Instead you'll just get crisper graphics.

No... if you're zoomed out (within reason), you can see more of the map and you can control more stuff, you get more info faster than if you're zoomed in, then you can only see a fewer number of troops and less of the map. There's still an advantage to being zoomed out in 3-D.


Call me Hal, ok?
muser
Mortal
posted 30 March 2002 11:55 PM EDT (US)     13 / 48       
speaking of hotkeys, i think they should make the default layout correspond to the positions of the pictures on the screen. I know that worked well for ages, and it makes sense for all skill levels.
Kong_KK
Mortal
posted 30 March 2002 11:55 PM EDT (US)     14 / 48       

Quote:

No... if you're zoomed out (within reason)

Yes that's if you use the zoom feature. But you won't get a wider view than someone else if you have a higher resolution than them, you'll get crisper graphics like I said b4. And like Imhotep said, you can't use the zoom feature in regular games (at least as far as we know).

TheShadowDawn
Mortal
posted 31 March 2002 01:15 AM EDT (US)     15 / 48       
According to Swinger's not so new but hardly out of date comment you can use zooming in regular games and multiplayer but you have to 'unlock it'. He also mentioned zooming/rotation really wasn't useful in multiplayer, too.

TheShdwDwn
If you're like me, then it's possible you're a clone generated from my stolen DNA. I suggest you turn yourself in for destruction immediately.
IR_Evil
Mortal
posted 31 March 2002 01:29 AM EDT (US)     16 / 48       
The wide view resolution hurts my eyes to play on . And I don't use hotkeys so I can forget about that other part you was saying.
Seph
Mortal
posted 31 March 2002 01:30 AM EDT (US)     17 / 48       
I think sandy mentioned once that norse (and maybe egypt) are very different from what we have seen. Including random resources, MUs, god powers, a TON of god combos, and alot of new units and features we have never seen, I think it will be another good 2-3 years before aom will have been totally drained like aok has now.

Of course, this is way to early to talk about that. Strong build orders will probably emerge sooner then that, and game evolution will take its place. (ei. one month norse is 1v1 superpower, next month someone discovers unbeatable combo, ect)

TheShadowDawn
Mortal
posted 31 March 2002 01:42 AM EDT (US)     18 / 48       

Quote:

And I don't use hotkeys

*Gasps*


TheShdwDwn
If you're like me, then it's possible you're a clone generated from my stolen DNA. I suggest you turn yourself in for destruction immediately.
Kaziglu Bey
Mortal
posted 31 March 2002 02:14 AM EDT (US)     19 / 48       
Speaking of hotkeys I think that the standard hotkeys in AoK are better than in most other games. They realised that it's better to have most hotkeys close together rather than trying to fit everything to a certain letter wich makes it easier to remember what's what in the beginning. After playing for a while anyone will learn what the keys does anyway. And quite a few of the casual players will never use the hotkeys anyway, regardless of how they are put together. They may not really need the added quickness of the hotkeys, or they are more strictly visual in their orientation, or they've just got mad mouse skills.

The most important feature in this is of course still the option of reconfiguring the keys the way you like it, that's a great thing to have even if you may just want to change a single thing like the behavior of a mouse button.

By the way I hope the effects of graphics resolution are clear now. Higher resolution will not make for a "wider" view in a 3D environment, and the level of zoom will probably be locked at its default game setting for multiplayer games. If unlocked, the ability to zoom out a bit will be a clear advantage to a player with a fast system and good enough monitor to zoom out and run at a really high resolution at the same time.

[This message has been edited by Kaziglu Bey (edited 03-31-2002 @ 02:21 AM).]

Immhotep
Mortal
posted 31 March 2002 03:22 AM EDT (US)     20 / 48       
With the AOK's default resolution, a Town center and a couple of house can take up pretty much the entire monitor - not very advantagous when you're in a competitive multiplayer game. But strange enough, the "casual" gamers - that includes a few friends of mine - use this resolution. They don't like the resolution that has a wider view but makes the units look tiny. I was on this resolution for a while until I kept on losing, then I modified this, including my hotkeys. That was when I started to get better really quick and moved from a regular BF'er to an Arabian player.

The key to get better? Other than practice, good hotkeys and wide resolution are a must. Those two are like the basic ingredients for good inters to experts. Sort of like in order to make bread, you must have dough and yeast.

JackalRat
HG Alumnus
(id: BrandNewCar)
posted 31 March 2002 03:26 AM EDT (US)     21 / 48       
Immhotep, do you think the scroll speed of your mouse is important also?.
Immhotep
Mortal
posted 31 March 2002 04:20 AM EDT (US)     22 / 48       
Since u remember to bring that up, I'd suppose u know the answer already . Lol, in case u don't...yeah, it definitely does, but only the scroll speed in the game menu, and not the scroll speed in your desktop settings since if u crank up the desktop scroll speed with the game's scroll speed, it would be too sensitive and make pin point mouse action less precise.
Immhotep
Mortal
posted 31 March 2002 04:23 AM EDT (US)     23 / 48       
Besides, a good scroll speed is a part of the good hotkeys settings.
Psychic Ostrich
Mortal
posted 31 March 2002 04:40 AM EDT (US)     24 / 48       
One thing that will give utter rubbish players (Thats me!) a chance to compete are new players who have never played any of the Age games! When i found AOK, people were so good I couldent compete with them, I couldent find anyone of my skill (None-existant), wich ment it was nearly impposible for me to improve.

Hopefully, new players will give me a chance to compete.

I never could ge the hang of hotkeys...


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Jus
Mortal
posted 31 March 2002 04:53 AM EDT (US)     25 / 48       
I thinl people who had played one of the age games will still be better because they have a feel for when to go to the next age, the number of villis that you need approximately etc.
IR_Evil
Mortal
posted 31 March 2002 06:38 AM EDT (US)     26 / 48       
Scroll Speed? Why would that even matter? Dude this is a strategy game we're talking about not CS.

And yes I know all this stuff ur talking about keeps me from being an expert but why the heck should I care? If I wanted to worry about how fast I could click I would go play CS or TFC (which I do alot but I like to keep sepreate from AoK).

[This message has been edited by IR_Evil (edited 03-31-2002 @ 06:40 AM).]

Kaziglu Bey
Mortal
posted 31 March 2002 06:58 AM EDT (US)     27 / 48       
Finding players of a similar skill level is something that will have to get easier somehow, in order to make online gaming appeal more to a broader audience. On the Zone there's a frequent ocurrance that would probably be hard to prevent and that it players playing in rooms well below their skill level to "have fun with the newbies". Although it's sometimes just a rookie armed with an intermediate skill level set of tactics, but the effect is the same. Deterrent of newcomers and casual players.

I'll just have to clarify a bit of what Immhotep wrote about resolution. The described effect is because of the old 2D graphics engine. In AoM it will not be the same. A higher resolution in AoM will be nice in itself but not that kind of an advantage as it is in the previous games. Even though I'm sure that Immhotep understands this I just have to avoid further misconceptions on the matter. It's good to be clear when people are looking for information.

[This message has been edited by Kaziglu Bey (edited 03-31-2002 @ 06:59 AM).]

BlackKnight777
Mortal
posted 31 March 2002 07:00 PM EDT (US)     28 / 48       
i use 3 hotkeys...H, rolling my middle mouse button to make villagers and main soldiers at each different military building, and SHIFT. those work fine for me and i'm definately NOT a bad player. (just for your information)


i really don't think hotkeys are that important. yeah, they can speed up your game but there's just no substitute for plain out good mouse control a few are good but other than that you just need too much coordination to do it (even with non-default keys)

but the main reason i don't use them is because my keyboard is in a drawer and it's really uncomfortable to have the keyboard out all the time so i just use it at the beginning and then i also have my hand in there so i can hit shift all the time...but, of course that's just me.

alLan Mandragoran
Mortal
posted 31 March 2002 07:29 PM EDT (US)     29 / 48       
I hope it does, I think that people forget the game is about fun and decide that it is only for wining. It seems people decide to screw graphics and take that all the way down so lag isnt so bad and they can do that expert startegy they just watched ona recorded game. I really hope rushing is not going to be part of AoM. I hate rushing although I do it all the time in EE, only because rookie games really stink there and to have fun you have to rush. I really want AoM to be about fun, not winning (of course you want to win but I want the bottom line to be fun).

-That was probably my best post ever, in terms of grammar

Quote:

rolling my middle mouse button to make villagers and main soldiers at each different military building

How do you assign a hotkey to the wheel?

The seals that hold back the night shall weaken,
and in the heart of winter shall winter's heart be born
amid the wailings of lamentations and gnashing of teeth, for winter's heart shall ride a black horse,
and the name if it is Death
-from the Karaethon Cycle The Prophecies of the Dragon

Immhotep
Mortal
posted 31 March 2002 07:45 PM EDT (US)     30 / 48       

Quote:

i use 3 hotkeys...those work fine for me and i'm definately NOT a bad player. (just for your information)

Depends...if you play the game for a year or two and still remain at low inter level, that's bad. I can't imagine someone playing with just 3 hotkeys and not get killed all the time.

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