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Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy and General Discussion » 1798,1633 vs 1742,1709 = Handicap How Is That Possible?
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Topic Subject:1798,1633 vs 1742,1709 = Handicap How Is That Possible?
Shurafa
Mortal
posted 15 November 2002 10:02 PM EDT (US)         
That is not even a 30 point difference....

hmm


NYC_Shurafa NYC 4 Life!!!
AuthorReplies:
AzN
Forumer
(id: AznKnightmare)
posted 15 November 2002 10:41 PM EDT (US)     1 / 19       
Same with me:
Aetius=1620s? Me=1662; Them:1630, 1745


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AgeMyth
Mortal
posted 15 November 2002 10:51 PM EDT (US)     2 / 19       
u ppl actually get hooked up onto 2v2. wow das kool
AFK_Tick
Mortal
posted 15 November 2002 11:05 PM EDT (US)     3 / 19       
I think there was something about "if the point spread between the highest and lowest rans in the game is greater than 150, handicap sets in"... or maybe I'm not remembering correctly.
Shurafa
Mortal
posted 16 November 2002 01:13 AM EDT (US)     4 / 19       
Is there any way to find out how ratings work? I have no clue as to when handicap sets in... At least we can resign if we draw a handicap game However sometimes you draw the same guys again (played the same guy 3 times yesterday)

I have played about 30 rated team games over the past week.


NYC_Shurafa NYC 4 Life!!!
Shurafa
Mortal
posted 17 November 2002 11:39 PM EDT (US)     5 / 19       
Someone must know how ratings work?

ES? TSD? Anyone?


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Yasakani
Mortal
posted 18 November 2002 06:16 AM EDT (US)     6 / 19       
Odd, the last team game I played even with a significant difference (although not 150) was rated:
Us: 1709, 1696
Them: 1580, 1625

Of course we won but we only get a measely 3 points added. We got the matchup after "expanding criteria".

Captn_Kidd
Immortal
posted 18 November 2002 12:13 PM EDT (US)     7 / 19       
OK, here's a summary, starting with the simple case of 1v1.

(Rating1 - Rating2) gives us predicted odds of winning. If the ratings match, it's 50%. If Rating1 is 100 points higher, it's about 90% odds.

A total of 40 points are at stake, and they're split according to the odds. So, in an even match, player 1 will win or lose 20. In a 90% favored match, player 1 will win about 4 or lose about 36.

If the point delta is more than 150 points, the game is not rated, and the lower-rated player gets a handicap bonus of 12% per 100 points difference.

In team games, each player's rating is scored as if he won or lost to an opponent with a rating equal to the average of the other team. So the higher-ranked partner wins fewer points than the lower-ranked one. (This discourages 1900 experts from partnering with 1600 smurfs to pad their scores.)

Unfortunately, handicapping kicks in when any one player is 150 points below the highest, and appears to only adjust those players who are 150 below the leader. (Someone 151 points below gets a big boost, someone 149 points below gets no boost.) We're looking into how it works and how we think it ought to work.

Shurafa
Mortal
posted 21 December 2002 07:00 AM EDT (US)     8 / 19       
This is a major problem in team games as 4v4 rated games RARELY if ever have all 8 players within 150 points (heck most of the time you cannot even do that with just one of the two teams and what do you do then create a smurf account?)

Is it possible to get rid of this 150 point handicap spread option for 2v2 3v3 and 4v4 play and instead base it on agregate avg ratins instead?

Thank You for the info BTW I have been wondering about this for quite some time.


NYC_Shurafa NYC 4 Life!!!
TheShadowDawn
Mortal
posted 21 December 2002 07:09 AM EDT (US)     9 / 19       
Thanks for the explanation Captn_Kidd. Cleared things up for me, at least.

TheShdwDwn
If you're like me, then it's possible you're a clone generated from my stolen DNA. I suggest you turn yourself in for destruction immediately.
Zasten
Mortal
posted 21 December 2002 12:06 PM EDT (US)     10 / 19       
This is really good info and *almost* enough for me to be useful. See, a friend of mine and I have a little competition going but, of course, we can't use the ratings on ESO because you can't get ratings on advanced set up games (where we set up private matches).

The key info I need is what exactly that odds table is. Saying a rating difference of 0 is 50% and a difference of 100 is ~90% isn't enough to go on.

Any chance of getting the full formula and odds table? I've looked at standard chess ELO formulas (which this is closely based on) but the odds tables are different apparently (in chess a 100 point diff is only about 70% odds).

Zasten

xplode_agrios
Mortal
posted 21 December 2002 12:17 PM EDT (US)     11 / 19       
In my opinion handicap shouldnt even exist.If you think that 150 points it too mutch then you shouldnt let people with 150 points diff get a rated game (even if they are in same team or not!) Its really annoying to want to get a 2v2 and when after all i get it the game to be with handicap!!!If a wanted a non rated game i would go to advanced setup!!
bigboss
Mortal
posted 21 December 2002 12:59 PM EDT (US)     12 / 19       
Heh... 4v4 rated? You have higher chance of winning the lottery. Ok, I guess you could set it up with your friends or something.

I am also all for removing the handicap as well. I have only had it happen once to me, but I can see it happening more in the future. Just as xplode_agrios said, if we wanted non-rated games, we would go to advanced setup. The question is what would we do instead of handicaps for people with huge point spreads?

AgeMyth
Mortal
posted 21 December 2002 03:57 PM EDT (US)     13 / 19       
lol...ya 4v4 rated is almost no go.
Unless u set it up or something.
Shurafa
Mortal
posted 21 December 2002 06:38 PM EDT (US)     14 / 19       
If my prayers are answered every mother in america has placed AOM under the christmas tree already so christmas morning we should expect 10000+ people on ESO.

Realistically I hope it will push it over the 3000-4000 mark and 4v4 rated will become a reality. With 2000+ we have been able to find many 3v3 rated games so....

we will see...

I wish I saw this reply a month ago when he posted it errr

How did we all miss this until now? hehe gotta love the search feature.

Bottom line handicaps make team rated games impossible if you want to play with anyone with friends who have ratings that are more then 150 points away from yours (most of my eso friends for example)


NYC_Shurafa NYC 4 Life!!!
WK_WOLF
Mortal
posted 21 December 2002 09:51 PM EDT (US)     15 / 19       
I don't like the idea of having a handicapped game. My rating is 1734. If i was matched against a 1950 player, i would not want any advantage from a handicaping system. If i beat him, i want it to be because i played better, not because it was fixed. If i lose, which is most likely, i would only lose 1 or 2 points, no big deal. My opinion, don't handicap any games! (unless you choose it in advance setup.)

-eX_WOLF
Pure_Madness
Mortal
posted 22 December 2002 07:26 AM EDT (US)     16 / 19       
really on christmas morning we can be thrashing newbies if we are lucky.

Dude, I ROCK
IB_Agilulfus
Mortal
posted 23 December 2002 04:25 AM EDT (US)     17 / 19       
From what Kidd said, and knowing from ESO FAQ that's an Elo rating it's not difficult to guess at the right formula.

The Elo formula for winning chance is:

P = 1/(1+10^(-D/100))

where D is the difference in ratings: winner-loser

Score earned is K(1-P)where K are the points at stake, the winners gains the points the loser loses them.

Hope this helps.

Shurafa
Mortal
posted 24 December 2002 04:11 AM EDT (US)     18 / 19       
Great info IB. If you can put that into a table I am sure TSD would love to post it on the site and give you credit for doing it. Then millions of AOMH fans will love and adore you for all time ;b

NYC_Shurafa NYC 4 Life!!!
goodbaby
Mortal
posted 24 December 2002 02:26 PM EDT (US)     19 / 19       
on the countary,i played a game
1600&1618 vs 173x& 174x

No handicap and I lost 1.64 point after the game.LOL

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