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Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy and General Discussion » RA Gets Nerfed in Next Patch
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Topic Subject:RA Gets Nerfed in Next Patch
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Parthianfury
Mortal
posted 19 December 2002 07:37 PM EDT (US)         
I was talking to GX_Iron along with a bunch of other guys on ESO when he stated "RA will get Tweaked down or Nerfed because of fast heroic in next patch" I figured coming from iron , its carries some weight, i guess we'll have to wait see.
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hades27
Mortal
posted 19 December 2002 07:43 PM EDT (US)     1 / 52       
Yup thanks for posting sweet info

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[This message has been edited by hades27 (edited 12-19-2002 @ 07:44 PM).]

enyak
Mortal
posted 19 December 2002 08:28 PM EDT (US)     2 / 52       
The question is how could they nerf RA fast heroic without actually nerfing him for all non-FH game strategies?
proq
Mortal
posted 19 December 2002 08:45 PM EDT (US)     3 / 52       
removing the priest empowering would be nice

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deadlydentures
Mortal
posted 19 December 2002 08:49 PM EDT (US)     4 / 52       
migdol units will be weaken is my guess.

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hades27
Mortal
posted 19 December 2002 08:50 PM EDT (US)     5 / 52       
not remove it, just make it much less effective, and tone down fast/hp camels and archers.

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BrazilianRaider
Mortal
posted 19 December 2002 08:51 PM EDT (US)     6 / 52       

Quote:

removing the priest empowering would be nice

And while we're at it let's remove Odin's ravens, lokis MU summoning, Isis GP protection and all other cool atributes that make civs unique. Ra is not overpowered. Raid his gold mines early and he is dead. No Gold = no Migdol, CAs or camels.

deadlydentures
Mortal
posted 19 December 2002 08:54 PM EDT (US)     7 / 52       

Quote:

And while we're at it let's remove Odin's ravens, lokis MU summoning, Isis GP protection and all other cool atributes that make civs unique. Ra is not overpowered. Raid his gold mines early and he is dead. No Gold = no Migdol, CAs or camels.


Thats what i keep saying, but noone listens to me!!! i just kinda assume that perhaps it might be aproblem. I have no trouble against Ra.

[This message has been edited by deadlydentures (edited 12-19-2002 @ 08:54 PM).]

Maximus_
Mortal
posted 19 December 2002 09:00 PM EDT (US)     8 / 52       
yeah, Ra's really isn't a problem for me, playing eggies or norse. I think some people *cough* hades *cough* arn't taking eggies weaknesses to their advantage.

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[This message has been edited by Maximus_ (edited 12-19-2002 @ 09:46 PM).]

Parthianfury
Mortal
posted 19 December 2002 09:14 PM EDT (US)     9 / 52       
Rotherson said the same thing and agreed with Iron, thats 2 Top Players complaining so......I guess when 1 Civ is used too much along with the same strat it suggest a probable imbalance. Should be interesting to see what ES_Deathshrimp has to say about this. Prime example is the Hip Rush.

[This message has been edited by Parthianfury (edited 12-19-2002 @ 09:15 PM).]

DDT_DriverX
Mortal
posted 19 December 2002 10:28 PM EDT (US)     10 / 52       
I sure hope they don't make changes to Ra, the two reasons i like Ra is the empowering preists and the stronger midigol units. Although now that the norse are fixed i might go back to playing as odin.
deadlydentures
Mortal
posted 19 December 2002 10:31 PM EDT (US)     11 / 52       
yea, Odin is what i mainly played during the alpha.
I didn't play it b/c of the bugs.

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proq
Mortal
posted 19 December 2002 11:15 PM EDT (US)     12 / 52       
Ra was well balanced up until i played a 3v3 with one of them being Ra. Ra hides away for a good lot of the game until he has a poopload of camels and chariots and he seems never lacking gold for some reason. I can handle a RA in a 1v1 or 2v2 because I don't allow him to get that far, but 3v3 is a bit tough because they aren't always near me and for some reason they get the middle (lucky punks). The migdol is way too cheap to build... My partners and I were destroying his migdols all game and couldn't get to his economy with enough units to do anything. He just keeps massing the migdol. I think that is the only imbalance, the speed chariots and camels are coming out and the cost to build a migdol which is close to none. If I build as many fortresses as he does migdols I would be a dead man.

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proq
Mortal
posted 19 December 2002 11:22 PM EDT (US)     13 / 52       
But then again... how can you weaken the FH without weakening Egypt civs in general? That's the hard job QA will have to wrestle with. I say the priest empowering is too strong... Remove the priest empowering and maybe make the pharoah 5% more empowering. I think migdols should cost alot more, and maybe the speed which the chariots and camels come out should be slowed down yet make the units themselves a lil stronger to even it out.

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bigboss
Mortal
posted 19 December 2002 11:41 PM EDT (US)     14 / 52       
One suggestion that I think would be fair is to increase the time it takes to research heroic age.

Making any changes to the Major (or even Minor) God bonuses at this point would be a bad move. Tweaking of research/unit creation time I can understand. I have faith that ES won't do anything knee-jerk like remove the Ra Priest empowering.

On a related note, I don't see why Ra's Priests are the first thing everyone complains about. Take a look at some good Ra recorded games. Other than the initial empowering of the Granary, priest empowering doesn't get used much. Even the empowering that does happen has little effect on the outcome of the match.

Do people forget that Egypt villagers collect resources 10% slower than the other civs?

It's also strange that these "top players" are making comments only a day after a balancing change was made to Egypt (not to mention the new uber Norse Raiding Cavalry). If these dudes are so good at figuring out game balance in one day, then why aren't they working for ES (and if they are, then why do these "problems" exist)?

[This message has been edited by bigboss (edited 12-19-2002 @ 11:45 PM).]

bennyboy4308
Mortal
posted 19 December 2002 11:43 PM EDT (US)     15 / 52       
Yea, I'm mainly an egyptain player but I don't do the Ra Fast Heroic, i'm not good enough to pull it off, but I shouldn't be "punished" because I don't follow a certain stratagy. A possible solution is to maybe slightly lower the empowering rate or make them take up more pop or something to that extent. W/E. I don't really know what I'm talking about, so just disregard everything I just said.
Kyum
Mortal
posted 20 December 2002 00:35 AM EDT (US)     16 / 52       
its simple leave all the units alone as they seem fairly well balanced.the only nerf they need is to slow there fast heroic right?i cant believe no one said this yet.

his rain power is 300 percent.well change it to 100 percent.boom its fixed.still has a nice god power and its a bit slower.just eliminate helping enemy farms.

proq
Mortal
posted 20 December 2002 01:03 AM EDT (US)     17 / 52       
the rain power isn't the only factor to the FH...

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_Boo_
Mortal
(id: Buu_Dragon)
posted 20 December 2002 01:13 AM EDT (US)     18 / 52       
proq yea it is, imagine odin getting a 300% hunting bonus for one minue, instead if eating those 3 boar in 2 minutes, youd eat it in 30 secs (hypothetical) ra is to overpowewed. 1v1, players of same skill, rating, one ra one other RA wins the *thing* is 2 powerful

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dragons89
Mortal
posted 20 December 2002 08:03 AM EDT (US)     19 / 52       
Maybe migdols made more expensive? Removing the option of being able to place migdols close to town centers? That would make killing migdol builders much more easier.

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vader42xx
Mortal
posted 20 December 2002 08:42 AM EDT (US)     20 / 52       
The best option has already been mentioned....leave the rain GP just as it is in all respects except two.

- Only give a 100% bonus to the Ra player.

- Give no bonus to enemies or allies.

That takes care of the thing just fine. It leaves Ra balanced and good but not TOO good.


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BalanceFX
Mortal
posted 20 December 2002 08:44 AM EDT (US)     21 / 52       
I guess when your the designer of the game its easy to nerf something every time you lose to it. From now on lets always let the ESO folks win that way they will think the game is balanced.
Sir Lose a lot
Mortal
posted 20 December 2002 09:36 AM EDT (US)     22 / 52       
I would have to agree that Rain GP is the main factor for Ra's FH. What about giving it 100% bonus in Archaic and Classical (and 0% bonus for enemies) and normal 300% bonus in Heroic and Mythical?

It would give an additional strategic choice. Either less bonus earlier and not anymore so fast Heroic or 3 times bigger farming bonus in Heroic and Mythic.

They have done similar thing to Poseidon's Hippikons - 5 seconds slower production time in Classical (20 seconds instead of 15 seconds) and normal, 15 seconds production time in higher ages.


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[This message has been edited by Sir Lose a lot (edited 12-20-2002 @ 09:51 AM).]

Sir Lose a lot
Mortal
posted 20 December 2002 09:49 AM EDT (US)     23 / 52       
I also completely disagree that the solution to the Ra's FH would be lowering units' statistics, taking away or lowering bonuses or increasing price/time for building migdols.

Why to punish Egyptian players for the length of the whole game because of one strategy. What about those who don't choose FH at all. Why they should be punished?


Human beings perform good and evil karma; they experience the fruits of their own actions. How can the Lord be held responsible? (Mahabharata 3.181.5)
Funky_Chicken
Mortal
posted 20 December 2002 10:07 AM EDT (US)     24 / 52       
Perhaps ES could make Egyptians need an armours AND a barracks to advance to heroic, this would slow down FHers and wouldn't affect 'normal' players.
jwj442
Mortal
posted 20 December 2002 10:11 AM EDT (US)     25 / 52       
Take away priest empowering? Are you insane?! While we're at it, let's take away Thor's dwarf bonus, Loki Hersir summoning, Set's animals, and the defining attributes of everyone else. I think that just making it so that you don't get a full refund from destroyed or deleted foundations might be enough. Instead, make it so the refund is in proportion to the amount of the building that has been completed, like in AoK. Then it really will hurt him to kill the migdol before it's finished.

But I think that they should wait a couple of weeks before patching it. I think that it's only overpowered vs. other Eggies. Norse can blitz them early, and Greeks can stop the migdol cold with pestilence or ceasefire.

[This message has been edited by jwj442 (edited 12-20-2002 @ 10:11 AM).]

ARF_MonteCristo
Mortal
posted 20 December 2002 11:42 AM EDT (US)     26 / 52       
Hmm, I do think that the Ra Egyptians need to be adjusted a bit to compensate. Not because the strat is unbeatable, but because it is really powerful and really easy to execute.

In rated I'm able to beat it, but only because the other player (while good at Ra FH) really sucks at all other aspects of the game (i.e. map control, resource management, effective counters, lacking micro skills). The problem really lies in the fact that a 1500-1600's player playing Ra can effectivly compete in a 1700+ environment because Ra's advantage is easily exploited.

I think that the key to adjusting is to increase the time that the Migdol units train slightly. Increasing the rax cost has made it more risky, but I think that increasing the time should slow it down as it has with Poseidon.


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BalanceFX
Mortal
posted 20 December 2002 11:57 AM EDT (US)     27 / 52       
I find Norse RC raids more effective then posiedon calvary raids.

Fast Ra Heroic. I lose more often when I rush to heroic then when I take my time.

Almost all the other races can keep pace with RA NP. I love Ra as my opponant. I stay in archiac a little longer then normal and take my herdable early and start farming the second I get to classical. Hopefully RA Uses Rain and I get so much food.

I never had problems against any of the eggies except Isis Blocking monuments can be somewhat annoying.

finn
Mortal
posted 20 December 2002 02:23 PM EDT (US)     28 / 52       
people say only 100% food, and no bonus to enemys but isnt that the same as 300% with 200% bonus for enemys, 300-200 =100?????

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new_gun_Sliver
Mortal
posted 20 December 2002 02:57 PM EDT (US)     29 / 52       
Not really, because normally, non-RA players dont use any farms until 3rd age, so is more like 300% for the RA and 0% for the opponent.
finn
Mortal
posted 20 December 2002 03:02 PM EDT (US)     30 / 52       
but surely its a fairly obvious tactic, if they are ra build at least a few farms early so you can benefit from his gp?

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of patriots from time to time"
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