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Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy Discussion » The most powerful Classic age unit.
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Topic Subject:The most powerful Classic age unit.
KS_Josey_Wales
Mortal
posted 30 January 2003 10:19 PM EDT (US)         
I must say that after a week of playing as Hades that cyclops are easily the most powerful 2nd age MU. However they also cost 250 food and 22 favour as opposed to 175 gold and 15 favour for einhenjars.

Here's why I think that they are the most powerful.

First off they get 600 hp now as opposed to 550 before, that's a lot of hp for classic age. As well they get pretty good attack, and decent armour (40,50 I believe) as well as the all important crush damage. Their special attack can* rock, I did some tests on it tonight and here is what I found.

I surrounded 1 cyclops by tons of ulfsarks (so he wouldn't die too fast ) as well, right beside him I set a different unit beside him in each test to see if different units give different results, which I couldn't really see much of a difference (I could be wrong though). How the cyclops special attack works is that he picks up a unit and throws him (duh), that unit instantly dies when it is thrown (or hits the ground not sure but it's close enough to the same thing). As well any units within a direct line from the cyclops to where the unit lands get injured for varying degrees. Units directly touching the cyclops didn't seem to get injured at all, units that got hit slightly after the thrown unit bounced got hurt for as much as 65 damage (WOW!!!!) that's 65 real damage, I'm not sure how armour affects this attack as I only did the test with ulfsarks as a target, the range of the damage actually seemed to go a little bit longer than the LOS of the cyclops, although units at the outer edges of it's effect got hurt for minimal amounts of around 10 real damage.

The downside to this awsome special is rather large, It seems to be quite random as to the direction the cyclops actually throws the enemy unit. If you were able to control this special it would be absolutely amazing (and possibly overpowered), but if anyone does know of a way please post it here so we can use it to defeat those evil norse players hehe.

In conclusion I really think that cyclops is the most powerful unit in classical, and can even be used very effectively in the later game due to the fact that he gives an insta kill to any normal unit (his special doesn't work on MU or hero's of course), has high hitpoints, and with his elite upgrade from the temple (which is quite expensive since these guys are impossible to mass early on) does a lot of damage.

AuthorReplies:
Chuahtemoc
Mortal
posted 30 January 2003 10:27 PM EDT (US)     1 / 24       
I'll make a trophy out of your Cyclops's eye with my Centaurs.
TheShadowDawn
Mortal
posted 30 January 2003 11:15 PM EDT (US)     2 / 24       
The patch has made me look at the cyclops more seriously too. But...his cost is a bit of a downer. It is very easy to pump two or three more dwarves to have a ton of gold flowing in for einherjars, whereas food comes in slower and needs wood for farming or careful management for free food. (Which you want to do as little as possible of during heavy classic fighting.) So I still lean towards the einherjar.. :/

TheShdwDwn
If you're like me, then it's possible you're a clone generated from my stolen DNA. I suggest you turn yourself in for destruction immediately.
KS_Josey_Wales
Mortal
posted 30 January 2003 11:17 PM EDT (US)     3 / 24       
Oh no doubt about it the einhenjar is much easier to obtain, I'm just saying that the cyclops is a unit not to be overlooked by hades players, he is very powerful throughout all the ages, and can easily swing a battle in your direction in classic age if you can afford him.
PippinTook
Banned
posted 30 January 2003 11:49 PM EDT (US)     4 / 24       
Although Cyclops comes at Classical I highly doubt u can pump more than 2-3 of them in classical without seriously hurting ur heroic time or other troop production.. however with their stats their pretty powerful all the way to the end... BTW does their special work on MU? I don't think it does but I'm not sure... would be really nice if they coudl pick up portable rams too :P

Does the unit getting hurt by the unit thrown differ with different units thrown? I think it would hurt a lot more from being hit by a flying slinger as to being hit by a flying elephant LOL!!!!!:P

hotspur12
Mortal
posted 31 January 2003 01:32 AM EDT (US)     5 / 24       
cyclops are good in classical and heric IMO
but building them in classical is not a good idea because you can't afford the favor

the food is not a problem since hades or poseidon doesn't need that much food, if you dont build hoplites of course

wut is hard to get is the favor
greeks must allocate villies for favor, the implication is you will have fewer villies for food, and that hampers your ability to get more villies for booming

greeks are better off to just forgo cyclops and maybe build them in heroic if you find yourself having a lotta surplus in food and with approdite's villie upgrade, that's not too hard

if greeks really want a classical MU, minos are perfect
they can fling MU's too, not just human units, and they are much more afordable at 16 fav, plus they are faster than cyclops.

imo, the cyclop hp increase is useless. if they can lower cyclop cost to 16 fav, they will be seen more often(the food wont stop ppl from getting cyclops), the 50 hps dont matter at all for eggy's who can mass priest, and norse who can mass hersirs, and of course, greek range heros

giving up prescious food and upgrade time for a slow MU that is not gonna win you battle esp vs norse is not worth it. greeks flourish in heroic, coz of they counter units, that's where the greeks' strongest strength lies.

einherjars are much better because the horn blow affect other units, with the possibility that the norse player will be building lots of TAs, the horn blow just boosts the norse by so much

in fact, that is one of the reasons i think thor is weaker in a norse vs norse match up. since thor doesn't get the building upgrade with Heimdell nor does he get einherjars

we all know how norse vs norse can get into a TA vs TA battle(much like Nite Elf vs Nite Elf in WC3), and RCs dont really dont do that well once the TAs are massed, or maybe with ulfies support.

so cyclops too much fav, build them later
einherjars, hornblows, norse classical glory

Carerra
Mortal
posted 31 January 2003 04:23 AM EDT (US)     6 / 24       
can units get thrown by a cyclpos into water, and do they drown or any effects like a splash, coz that would be cool.
schrammy
Mortal
posted 31 January 2003 04:26 AM EDT (US)     7 / 24       
MY vote go's to the TA

because overall on cost efetive bases i think (he)'s the best

Slaxxy22
Mortal
posted 31 January 2003 10:10 AM EDT (US)     8 / 24       
My vote goes to the Raiding Calvary......I've found them the most useful unit for me in the classical, their pierce armor is so rockin, and lets face it town center and tower fire are crucial that early in the game, so it's nire to have a unit that is effected little by it.......but as far as Myth units are concerned, I would venture to say the Centaurs are the best....cheap as heck(cuz who doesn't have tons of wood) and fast, with a nice powerful ranged attack.....they are quite nice, specially with zeus' fast faith production.....
BSR
Mortal
posted 31 January 2003 12:58 PM EDT (US)     9 / 24       
Myth: Bull Minotaur. I find that I have 150F lying around more often than 200W as Greeks, and I much prefer the Minotaur's eminently useful combo of HP, armor, crush, and gore attack. Close second: Einherjar, for the same reasons, not to mention they cost gold instead of food.

Human: Raiding Cavalry. Inexpensive, fast, pop-friendly, nicely-armored, what's not to love?

Animal: Crocodiles. 21 damage for one pop is all good, great for boosting smaller armies with some extra HP and damage-dealing. Close second: Hyenas, but just slightly too favor-expensive to be #1.

Just my opinion,
BSR

[This message has been edited by BSR (edited 01-31-2003 @ 03:35 PM).]

hades27
Mortal
posted 31 January 2003 01:12 PM EDT (US)     10 / 24       
Cyclops is powerful, but what are the chances of summoning him out?. Youll be rushed hard by the Norse before your Cyclops pop up IMO.

It is powerful in classical, but it is also the unit in classical that never get used. Nore will you have the chance of getting him, even.


- BITE MY SHINY METAL ASS!!
ESO: IamHades27

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Silent Assasin_
Mortal
posted 31 January 2003 01:22 PM EDT (US)     11 / 24       
oook

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iamgameguy
Mortal
posted 31 January 2003 04:20 PM EDT (US)     12 / 24       
can a unit be thrown into buildings?
wrotong
Mortal
posted 31 January 2003 05:43 PM EDT (US)     13 / 24       
try using them in lightning mode, its not too hard to mass them then

the greatest n00b of them all
Kr0n0s
Mortal
posted 31 January 2003 06:57 PM EDT (US)     14 / 24       
Best unit in classical is Loki's Hersir.

Can summon Einherjars, Valkyries, Trolls. Builds and counters your cyclops


ESO2: Munch
Clan: [wW] Weekend Widowmakers
KS_Josey_Wales
Mortal
posted 01 February 2003 02:47 AM EDT (US)     15 / 24       
Further testing reveals.....

After reading The Excalibur's comment over at PAoM about how he thought it seemed to throw at the largest group of units I thought I better do better testing as my oritinal testing wasn't very well controlled. I based my former opinion of pure randomness based on the fact they never really seemed to be aimed directly at anything in the games in which I've used cyclops.


The test:
This time my first test I set up a straight line of units directly in front of the cyclops, not surrounded but only one straight line out from the cyclops. Every time he threw it right at the large group of units there, so my conclusion thus far is that he for sure throws it in the direction of units.

My second test I had that same line of units directly in front of the cyclops, however I also set up groups of two units in a broken circle around the cyclops. Only 1 time did the cyclops not throw the unit at the large group directly in front of him. This however just wasn't proof enough for me as of course the unit he picked up was in a straight line towards the ones he threw it at.

The Final test I had the same setup but instead placed a unit close to him in the opposite direction of the large group of units. Despite this, the cyclops still turned around to throw the unit at the large group, so this puts my original theory of complete randomness out the window, thanks to The Excalibur at PAoM for pointing out his view on this or I likely wouldn't have done any testing on this.


I also came to another conclusion while trying out a test with buildings involved. I surrounded the cyclops by a few (about 8 ulsarks deep) then put houses around there to see if the throw could do any significant damage to buildings. I found that the throw doesn't actually do very much damage at all to buildings (although my test wasn't completely acurate in this regard due to the fact the unit never actually hit directly on the building), but at the same time found that every single time the cyclops threw a unit it didn't even bounce, just died where it landed. This kind of intrigued me as I had thought earlier that the cyclops throw did a random amount of bounces anywhere from none (rare) all the way up to 4 (even more rare). Well this new info just threw that right out the window, so I had to do yet more testing.

Turns out that the thrown unit will continue to bounce so long as there is still a unit further away (but within the radius of the distance of the bounce), in it's direct flight trajectory. If there are units spaced the right amount apart you can get up to four bounces doing approximately 100 hack damage. If there are no other units, the initial throw does approximately 30 hack damage. The chances of getting more than 1 or so bounces in a real game seems rather rare to me, but I didn't get specific numbers on the damage produced by this.

To those of you who claim that the throw does not do insta kill to all units, you are right, it only does insta kill to regular human units, the cyclops can not even do his special attack to MU nor (obviously) hero units. I'm not sure if the lack of attack vs. MU changed with the patch but I did try it vs. a couple of MU and the cyclops did not throw them, merely bashed the living crap out of them instead.

dragons89
Mortal
posted 01 February 2003 03:00 AM EDT (US)     16 / 24       
I think the cyclops are very nice as well. The throwing attack rocks To a weak unit, it's pretty much an instant kill.

However, 250 food IS a lot. But if you're Hades, you'll be going mostly on toxotes which means you don't need AS MUCH food.


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Crazy Horse
Mortal
posted 02 February 2003 10:15 AM EDT (US)     17 / 24       
ANUBITES!!!!!

Not as much hp as those Greek MU's, but much more easy to mass.


"It is a good day to fight! It is a good day to die! Strong hearts, brave hearts, to the front! Weakhearts and cowards, to the rear!" -Tashunka Witco (Crazy Horse)
Toastabal
Mortal
posted 02 February 2003 10:28 AM EDT (US)     18 / 24       
interesting test. So that would mean a cyclops is more effective the more units the enemy has? Since his special does more damage... What about if he throws something large, will it do damage to several units at once and thus make the attack even more deadly?
Bubbu
Mortal
posted 02 February 2003 11:02 AM EDT (US)     19 / 24       
I was just about to commment, then I saw Crazy Horse just said what I was going to say. Anubites are awesome all round, and WAY more manuverable than the cyclops or einherjar. Not to mention their speed and jump attack rule! Just make sure you keep them on stand ground when you're not ready to attack.

Bubbu, what is best in life? "To crush your ememies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women!"

ESO = Lord_Bubbu

Oriental Dragon
Mortal
posted 02 February 2003 01:58 PM EDT (US)     20 / 24       
Anubite's jumping is a powerful attack, a good counter to archers and sieges. Moreover this jumping makes manual tasking of heroes to them difficult!

When grouped in large number (more than 6) anubites can cause trouble to enemy army of any size!

Anubite

Hack Armor: 60%
Pierce Armor: 55%
Crush Armor: 80%
Speed: 5.3 meters/second
(Plus they have a very short training time, if you care)

They are cheap and gold free. With the upgrade they can fight until late Heroic or early Mythic, when more powerful gold-free avengers appear!
(I'm recently Set, so I can get them both! )


Mountain Giants are much handier than Colossi, IMO.
Bane
Mortal
posted 03 February 2003 03:36 AM EDT (US)     21 / 24       
Ya, Cyclops rule for smashing that Norse forwardbuild. If you are not worried about getting to heroic really fast then one is nothing and two cyclops are not to hard to make.

Not as good against an Eggy because they to slow and get sapped by preist. But just for amusment, how may slingers would it take to kill a cyclops with no micro?

hotspur12
Mortal
posted 03 February 2003 04:08 AM EDT (US)     22 / 24       
it just seems crazy to me to delay classical by 1:30 to 2:00 mins just to get a cyclop out while your enemy can get to heroic, get an extra gp, better units, fortress and more tc, a cyclop is not everything, they die to heros way too quickly and darn, they are slow
DeaconRien
Mortal
posted 03 February 2003 04:57 AM EDT (US)     23 / 24       
It's definitly a toss up between

The Guardian Anubite Vs. The Giant-Killer Einherjar


Zone Name= DeaconRien
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That AoM Guy
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posted 25 March 2019 08:20 PM EDT (US)     24 / 24       
cool

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