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Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy Discussion » Versitality of Set
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Topic Subject:Versitality of Set
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lessthanjakeman9
Mortal
posted 06 May 2004 06:49 PM EDT (US)         
OMG i just played three Set games and used three completely different strats and won each game. Its so amazing how different each of the three games were and how strong set is in every situation. The animals may not be OP but they are still very good.

FIRST GAME
Its alfheim. I convert a few bears and make a lot of hyenas (hyenas are IMO better than apes since they take less pop slots for an equal power). My hyenas wreck the Odin players forward base before it really begins. He does mount an attack on me at about 7:30 though but with some mercs and my animals i beat him back easily. I get to Heroic at a bit past 8 minutes (using the priest to give me extra deer). I then vision my opponents base. I see what units hes making and what other things hes doing and note it all in my head. At the same time the vision found one of his nearby tc's. I shifting sands a load of my vills over to the tc and take it at about 9 minutes. I then spam a migdol stronghold at the FB and at my gold mine. I pump out migdol units as well as siege. I figure that i have no real use for all the hyenas and bears that i have so i send them to attack his wood (i didnt want him to get huskarls as they kill migdol units). They kill about 10 vills and run away. Then i send them in to take out some buildings. They take down 2 longhouses, an armory, and a house before they are vanquished At the same time ive taken EVERY other tc at around 13 minutes (there were only 5 tc's. Weird) I am raiding him like hell and he finally attacks my FB. I use ancestors and with my migdol and my army i easily beat him. Then i attack his base. First i meteor it, then i take my army+seige in and wreck his base. I have to say that this was a pretty easy win against a player that wasnt that bad.

SECOND GAME
This game was on watering hole. Seeing as it was watering hole i decided to see if an archaic rush would work. I made a monument right away. I put only 5 vills on food before i put some on gold so that i could get hunting dogs fast. I went pretty gold heavy and got a temple down rather early and pumped out priests. With four priests converting and my pharoah spamming monkeys (not hyenas since pop doesnt matter now) i had an army of 6 rhinos 4 elephants 5 lions 3 hyenas 4 aurochs 2 gazelle and 8-10 apes at about 6-6:30. I immediately attacked. I cast plague of serpents which took care of the Thor players army and used my animals to attack his vills and take down buildings. His military buildings were down easy and i took out at least 2/3 of his vills. My monkeys died to arrow fire but the rhinos eles and aurochs were all still alive taking stuff down. He actually had like 4 hersirs when i attacked but they were so outnumbered that it didnt matter. Anyways i got to heroic at about 9-10 minutes while foiling all his plans to rebuild (i didnt even attempt to take down the tc. However when i cast ancestors on his tc he resigned.

THIRD GAME
The map was oasis. Usually on oasis i aim to animal steal but when i visioned his base i found there werent any animals to steal. So i just used my priest to convert other hunting farther out. This supplied my eco. He also was used to get a few apes and such converted. I got to classical at 5:35 minutes with an army of 15 animals (mainly hyenas and apes). A bit later the Loki rush came. Luckily i had gone very heavy on gold and could afford to spam mercs and priests. The mercs killed his hersirs, the priests killed his MU's and the animals, towers, and plague of serpents killed the rest. His FB was rather close so i spammed a couple of mercs and used the animals to take that down. Now my eco was still good since i had researched eco techs in the transition to classical so i went to heroic. By the time i got there it was 11 minutes. I immediately went to mythic and took a forward tc. I suspected he had a good army but then so did i and i had ancestors at my fingertips. So i went and took the forward tc. I then spammed like 4 migdols there. He attacked before they were all up and as i had thought ancestors saved me. My animals were back defending against raids. Once i was in mythic i researched thoths elephant tech and his eco tech. My eco was then up to par and i was spamming CA and eles a lot. After a few futile attacks on my FB (he couldnt attack anywhere else since i had walled it all up) i started some raids. Then soon afterwards i used meteor on his military buildings ran in with uber elephants and killed him. He used walking woods but my priests took care of it and after that his base was toast.

Basically i am simply amazed at the versitality of Set. I fast heroiced, semi fast mythiced, and archaic rushed to victory using the same god. And these are not strats i usually use. I usually stop early rushes with animals and serpents, mass a barracks army, gain map control, get to heroic at 10 minutes, put an animal at each gold mine, take tc's, spam migdols, raid and use my GP's to win. However some of these strats are very good. The fast heroic was particularly good since i had taken every tc before most norse players even get to heroic. I also liked the migdol spamming since basically my FB was impregnable, my animals were stopping raids, and if he went all out on my base then i would take down his base first with my siege and GP's. The archaic rush was basically unbeatable and the semi fast mythic was very good since the faster you get meteor the more damage it will do and my early animals became uber in mythic. Set kinda has the Thor effect where you have no clue what he'll do. The guy i archaic rushed probably didnt make many defenses since he wasnt expecting that. The guy i fast heroiced didnt go to heroic earlier since he probably was expecting a classical fight.

AuthorReplies:
Pug
Mortal
posted 06 May 2004 06:56 PM EDT (US)     1 / 41       
vanilla?

R.I.P Shiva
lessthanjakeman9
Mortal
posted 06 May 2004 07:59 PM EDT (US)     2 / 41       
yeah
GRUNT
Mortal
posted 06 May 2004 08:04 PM EDT (US)     3 / 41       
Vanilla's the way to go :thumbsup:

I got an exam now, but I'll read this later.....all this time I thought all set was good for was mass infantry or Uber eles + Slingers :P.

Orion_Tok
Mortal
(id: Sp3ctre)
posted 06 May 2004 09:38 PM EDT (US)     4 / 41       
Are the animal stats and convert times in Vanilla the same as in TT? If so, can you email me the recs or post them on this site. I REALLY wanna see the First and Second games!

Proud member of the Orion Clan
Orion_Tok
Check out my Japanese Civilisation Design Here!
lessthanjakeman9
Mortal
posted 06 May 2004 10:03 PM EDT (US)     5 / 41       
No I'm 90% sure that Set was further nerfed in the titans seeing as i swear i made a rhino in mythic for only 2 pop. Anyways i didnt record those games since i dont know how to rename rec games/am too lazy too figure it out and i wanted to watch a game that was #9.
GRUNT
Mortal
posted 07 May 2004 00:05 AM EDT (US)     6 / 41       
You're right, Rhinos DO cost only 2 pop. Although I dont think their HP exceeds 200 until Mythic =/.

4 Priests converting.....hmmmm.......I'd need quite a fair bit of gold for that, wouldnt I? Perhaps a more specific build order would be nice ^_____^.

When you have 4 or so priests converting, do you get them all to convert the same animal at once or have each priest converting something else?

EDIT: Now stop writing stuff like this and go make that uber Set guide :P.

[This message has been edited by GRUNT (edited 05-07-2004 @ 00:06 AM).]

arunprasaad_s
Mortal
posted 07 May 2004 01:44 AM EDT (US)     7 / 41       
Why did they nerf set so much in TT. Vanilla would be great then
SirGrayhorn
Mortal
posted 07 May 2004 02:01 PM EDT (US)     8 / 41       
a good read, had me day dreaming of playing some vanilla. i gonna do that saturday. i love vanilla thats the real age of mythology that TTxpack crap sucks.

SET is under rated, i know from experience. i got a very solid SET animal rush once very early in classical, like about 6:00.

this dude had like 4 preist his pharoe and some boars, polar bears and with vils building barracks. it was ghost lake i think thats what saved me, cause if he had like elephants and rhinos i think it would of been over for me. axemen, 2 valks and some hersir saved my ass big time.

i never felt safe facing SET after that, even thou i met him on the field like 1 time afer that.

i think you should look over your recorded games and try and write in detail how you pulled off these stratergies, i think it would be very welcome by alot of people. i play norse but i experiment with greek and egyptian all the time.

again good write up.


But just as the smoke cleared, a red cloak of silk burnt and battle worn blew past the fire, and from the buring embers of the catapault Sir Grayhorn emerged, Jalmal's Bain still strongly grasped in his right hand and his kite shield lined with steel pierced with arrows held high in his left. The hero had endured.
NoAffinity
Mortal
posted 07 May 2004 02:19 PM EDT (US)     9 / 41       
Nice write-up! And I'm w/ you SirGrayhorn, I play Norse primarily as well, but I always have fun w/ Set...even if I can't ever really win w/ him. I think I will be playing some vanilla Set this weekend, as well.
lessthanjakeman9
Mortal
posted 07 May 2004 07:28 PM EDT (US)     10 / 41       
I just posted a rec game on the site. Its not of any of the games described above but its an animal rush that i did against the comp just to show how to pull it off. I played pretyt badly but it does show the power of an animal rush.

http://aom.heavengames.com/downloads/showfile.php?fileid=2929

[This message has been edited by lessthanjakeman9 (edited 05-07-2004 @ 07:28 PM).]

Theris264
Mortal
posted 08 May 2004 06:17 AM EDT (US)     11 / 41       
I'll add it.

Theris264
former Age of Mythology Heaven and Age of Empires III Heaven forumer||former member of Ambition Designs
"An eye for an eye, and the whole world goes blind" -Gandhi
Johnny_Deppig
Mortal
posted 08 May 2004 07:27 AM EDT (US)     12 / 41       
I dont think the amimals are very good.. Ive never had any problems killing them off - villies + 2 hersirs killed 4 aurochs, 8 gazelles and whatnot when I was rushed - he still won though, since even without animals hes still eggy, and and his camels+CAs + SOO killed mass huskarls with flaming weapons like nothing before they even put a dent in his tc..
Darth Persia
Banned
posted 09 May 2004 10:03 AM EDT (US)     13 / 41       
I listened to this post, then thought I'd give Set another try. I discovered he's excellent! Although his animals suck, the rest is great. I went Ptah, Sekhmet, Horus. With that, you get two techs that help archers, 3 for spears, and 2 for axeman, uber rax!
lessthanjakeman9
Mortal
posted 09 May 2004 10:25 AM EDT (US)     14 / 41       
Set easily IMO has the best minor god path of the eggys.


As for the animals basically ive learned to use very early favor to pump out apes to scout, then use some converted animals and a couple summoned animals to go on a raid on whatever resource is farthest from his base (this is at about 5-7 minutes). They will eventually die but will always kill a couple of vills (on oasis my last raid killed 3 vills and oasis is the weakest animal wise). Then i just try to keep attacking with animals while leaving some back to combat raids. Then i go to heroic and take a forward tc and hold it with my army. At this point i take my attacking animals and move them near gold to act as mobile outposts. Throughout the game ive been using the free gazelles and giraffes at the temple as free food as well as on low food maps stealing my opponents food and possibly summoning food. Then once in heroic i add crocs in my army (typically i have between 5 and 10 of them). During the game i use plague of serpents to help against early rushes and ancestors if they attack my forward base before a migdol gets up there. Basically i just raid them with my quick building CA while i mass eles and siege towers (and rhinos if i went to mythic). Then i use meteor and attack afterwards with my army that will be bigger than his because of the forward tc, and my eles and seige towers that will take down buildings in seconds. Its a pretty good strat and uses the animals at all times.

Mowie666
Mortal
posted 09 May 2004 10:39 AM EDT (US)     15 / 41       
Other Set things to do... (he's my best god atm (1787))

- on alfheim you get 6-8 free kills.. keep a monkey by a cliff, and shifting sands the opponents Raiding cav or hersir or turma up onto the cliff (you need the monkey there for LOS)
No reason not to fast heroic on alfheim with this kind of advantage.

- leave a deer or farm animal next to the opponent gold mine. When they dissapear, you have spot to raid.

- vs Atlantean, slingers are your best hope.. even when they start adding murmillos, keep your force slinger based.. So lots (10+ on wood ). If you get into a dead-heat battle, get the longhouse upgrades..you need them to keep up with attie overpowered-lameness. Don't rely on TC fire or migdol fire to help you, as attie impervious to arrow.

- never autoque your military as eggy, you can quickly use up all pop slots and your econ will stink

- I find wadjets a waste of money, but the rest of ptah is awesome.. (you need your wood for the slingers) Kind of like a mini-Thor

- Vision the center of highland, dock placement helps your econ here big time.

- don't "save" vision.. are you going to raid with spears in classic(probably not)? So use it early to give you scouting advantage.

- Consider fastish-mythic on oasis for the meteor

- build barracks whenever you're sure not what to do

- I would say nephyths is a must for the MU killing tech.. Every civ has a myth unit that can overrun your priests (regular).. For instance valkryies, collosi, heka gigantes (try taking 3 of them out with priests).

- Go Thoth when you control the water, elephants are really that good.. I still dont know though if book of thoth improves your fishing boats.

- only get "Feral" when you have 2 or 3 TCs and are at pop cap, it's really that bad. (ES do you balance test ?)

- Get the Ptah myth techs only after you get the copper armory techs (and before you get the bronze ones.. better value)

- I don't know if Wadjets heal or life-suck, but I think they do one of them. So if you have one at half health, retreat and heal.

- Vs Isis I go slinger/camel with scorpions if I can

- Vs Ra I go heavy on the myth units to get his priests off of empowering.. Consider going bast for sphinx

- If you capture a middle TC, build your barracks behind it (not right next to it).. This way they can't overrun your base without taking the TC first. Also mercs can get out easier.

- Summon alligators, I think they're only animal worth it anymore. And only strategically.. I think they do okay vs siege units and oracles LOL

- Chariot archers also build faster.. Always have 4 of them running around (but not more, because you need wood for slingers and siege)

- Steal opposing hunt with Vision if you can.

- you can empower temple to get shaduf faster.. I've done this once or twice.


lessthanjakeman9
Mortal
posted 09 May 2004 12:06 PM EDT (US)     16 / 41       
Wow Set can really have a GREAT eco. I just played a game where i stole my opponents hunting on alfheim, i hunted my free gazelles and giraffes and i summoned a load of gazelles. I estimate that i got 3000 extra food for being set. This extra food is hunting so not only did i steal my enemys food, and not have to farm as soon, but i was getting FAST food up until 15 minutes into the game. While i was getting the gazelles i still had enough favor to summon some hyenas that went on a raid early and killed 2 vills and 1 ulfsark. It may not seem like much but i essentially got those hyena for free and it hurts your eco to have 2 lost vills right after you hit classical. Basically in this game it was ridiculous i had SO MUCH food it was amazing. I was able to basically pump spears and slings out of 3 barracks pretty constantly (although not completely constant since i dont want to get to pop limit before i have enough vills) while getting to heroic rather early and being able to immediately put down a forward tc, a migdol there, a seige workshop, and a couple more barracks. My eco was awesome and i wrecked my opponents eco by stealing all his nearby hunting by 6:30 minutes. So anyone that says that Set has the worst eco doesnt play Set. There is no way that as any other civ i would have had the eco that i had on that map. I was hunting up to 15 minutes and NEVER left my base to do it. You cant get much better than that.
Mowie666
Mortal
posted 09 May 2004 12:56 PM EDT (US)     17 / 41       
Can you pause the next Set game you play, and add up the amount of free food you get from animals? Also, what animals do you summon for food, the gazelle? how much favor are they? How many monuments did you have. Being able to summon hunting all game would be nice.
lessthanjakeman9
Mortal
posted 09 May 2004 03:29 PM EDT (US)     18 / 41       
Later on in the game you cant summon animals since youll have like 20 food vills so youd need to make every monument and its simply not worth it because of all the micro involved. However early on its very good to summon animals as i have said. The best one to summon on a favor per food basis are gazelles. They cost 4 favor and yield 75 food. Once in heroic giraffes are better. They are 7 favor and yield 150 food.

Also i got that number of extra food from this. I sent 14 deer near his base back to mine. Each of them are 112 food so thats 1568 food. I used the free gazelles and giraffes from the temple which is a total of 525 food. I also summoned about 12 gazelles which is 900 food. Add that together and its 2993 food.

Also BTW i had one monument for most of the time and i may have gotten the next one but it would have been well after 10 minutes and i dont even remember if i got that.

[This message has been edited by lessthanjakeman9 (edited 05-09-2004 @ 03:30 PM).]

arunprasaad_s
Mortal
posted 09 May 2004 06:14 PM EDT (US)     19 / 41       
Set has always been good. He has become unpopular only because of the huge nerf in TT and is no more playable in TT. Prove ur point in TT then I would really apreciate it. TT really is bad. The animals pop slot sucks and feral doesnt seem to boost his animals at all and they provide only half the food that they normally do and the speeds of the animals have also been decreased and coversion takes a hell lot of time. In TT I can never convert an elephant.
Cyber_Set
Mortal
posted 09 May 2004 09:47 PM EDT (US)     20 / 41       

Quote:

I dont think the amimals are very good.. Ive never had any problems killing them off - villies + 2 hersirs killed 4 aurochs, 8 gazelles and whatnot when I was rushed - he still won though, since even without animals hes still eggy, and and his camels+CAs + SOO killed mass huskarls with flaming weapons like nothing before they even put a dent in his tc..

That must have been a dream then. Because Set doesn't get SoO.


C loudNine
lessthanjakeman9
Mortal
posted 09 May 2004 09:50 PM EDT (US)     21 / 41       
I played two more games that really showed the greatness of set AGAIN.

The first game was watering hole. So i got my priest early on to convert animals like hippos and later on pumped priets out of the temple and was converting animals incredibly fast. Basically i attacked his vills at about 6 minutes. He had zero army so my 1 rhino, 2 hippos, 1 hyena, and a lion did kill some vills. Then i saw a HUGE amount of vills in the corner of my LOS going to a hunting spot. I gathered up my animal army which was way bigger than before and attacked them. At this point i had an epic battle with the villagers but i was converting animals faster than they were being killed and his vills went down rather fast. He was reinforcing his hunters with his gold vills but not fast enough to stop me. Of course he did send in some army but nothing to speak of since he had no food. I killed about 18 villagers and had killed 3 earlier on. I did all this for free. Basically after that i had another epic battle with his wood vills but it was a lobsided battle since i now had like 15 feraled animals (mostly hippos and lions). At the same time i had built up a full pop spear/sling army and gotten to heroic at 10 minutes. Once i got to heroic i took 3 more tc's and put up a migdol and a seige workshop in myh FB (which already had 4 barracks). He had zero vills but didnt resign so i just ran in with some eles and seige towers and took down the tc.

The second game was oasis. I got to heroic at 7:20 without any action (i did have an animal army to protect me though). I speed built a seige workshop, pumped out 3 seige towers, filled them all with vills and my pharoah, visioned his base, shifted the seige towers in (this is at roughly 9 minutes which with more experience could be lowered easily), used ancestors which killed his army and stopped vills from getting to the seige. His tc was down 30 seconds later. I popped out my vills and pharaoh and bult a tc over it in 10 seconds. He resigned.

Set just has so many possibilities its amazing.

[This message has been edited by lessthanjakeman9 (edited 05-09-2004 @ 09:51 PM).]

SeaSerpant
Mortal
posted 09 May 2004 09:50 PM EDT (US)     22 / 41       
Ya I remeber when alot of people use to use set. Now the patch has nerfed him. But i still think he is the most underated gods.
Mowie666
Mortal
posted 09 May 2004 10:32 PM EDT (US)     23 / 41       
just played a game and left 5 hunters grouped at home constantly hunting gazelle till 15 mins , let me get through the ages really fast!! Also, boar converted have 225 food!
Cyber_Set
Mortal
posted 09 May 2004 11:17 PM EDT (US)     24 / 41       
lessthanjakerman, he didn't try to attack your animals back with his vills?

C loudNine
GRUNT
Mortal
posted 10 May 2004 02:55 AM EDT (US)     25 / 41       
REPLAYS! REPLAYS!
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