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Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy Discussion » Questions about Thor.
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Topic Subject:Questions about Thor.
Im_a_beaver
Mortal
posted 27 September 2004 03:21 PM EDT (US)         
Hi all.

I'm an Odin player, around 1620-1650, but i'm starting to get bored. So i've decided to start playing Thor. I have i few questions:

Thors dwarfes: do they gather wood at the same rate as normals villagers? I think i heard something about them collecting food faster, but not sure about wood.

Thor all dwarf economy: Is this good? in the sybex game guide there is a build order, for a strat with only dwarfs and TAs. is this a good idea?

Thor build order: does anyone have the "perfect" build order for Thor?

Thor jarls: Is it true that Thor jarls are stronger than Odin jarls? i've heard lots of people saying that they are stronger due to the extra armory techs. Is this true?


Thanks in advance.

(SORRY BAD ENGLISH)


"The real Art of Peace is not to sacrifice a single one of your warriors to defeat an enemy. Vanquish your foes by always keeping yourself in a safe and unassailable position; then no one will suffer any losses."
-Morihei Ueshiba, founder of aikido

English is not my first language, so please excuse me.

AuthorReplies:
Fazy
Mortal
posted 27 September 2004 04:19 PM EDT (US)     1 / 15       
Odin fully upgraded jarls just about beat thor ones. But Thor huskarls beat Odin ones.

All dwarf economy is not as efficient as a gathers on food and wood after some upgrades.

Don't have a build order as i don't play thor but i think most people put dwarven mine next to tc, first 2 dwarves on that, then start making gatherers for food and send the oxcart with the foodies. I don't know wat people do after they've got a few gathers on food though... sorry

Thanatos
Mortal
(id: deathmaster666)
posted 27 September 2004 11:01 PM EDT (US)     2 / 15       
There are many good guides Thor in the sticky thread at the top of the strategy forums. I suggest u read them all.

These 2 guides are particularly good.

http://aom.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=11,18349,0,10

http://aom.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=11,19626,350,all


Help me to tally the forums belief patterns, vote in my poll

Tally so far:-
Agnostics:18
Atheists:28
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[This message has been edited by deathmaster666 (edited 09-27-2004 @ 11:06 PM).]

drgnfly
Mortal
posted 27 September 2004 11:12 PM EDT (US)     3 / 15       
A tip on Dwarven mine. The later in the game you use the power the more gold you get. Since there are usually plenty of gold mines out and about in the early half of the game, I would hold onto dwarven mine until late heroic, or mythic before using it. That extra gold gomes in handy if properly managed.
harr
Mortal
posted 28 September 2004 11:35 AM EDT (US)     4 / 15       

Quote:

A tip on Dwarven mine. The later in the game you use the power the more gold you get. Since there are usually plenty of gold mines out and about in the early half of the game, I would hold onto dwarven mine until late heroic, or mythic before using it. That extra gold gomes in handy if properly managed.


Don't use it in late heroic, always use it at the start of whatever age wish, as its value depends on which age you are in when you use it instead of how late in the game it is. I think these are the values for how much gold it gives you depending on the age tat it is used:
Archaic = 500
Classical = 1000
Heroic = 3000
Mythic = 6000

[This message has been edited by harr (edited 09-28-2004 @ 11:36 AM).]

Quircus
Mortal
posted 28 September 2004 11:55 AM EDT (US)     5 / 15       
Trouble is, if you are going to rush or whatever, you wont get into Mythic. I'd use it if you know you're going to win as long as you have enough resources to pump units, and there is not much accessable gold left.
harr
Mortal
posted 28 September 2004 12:08 PM EDT (US)     6 / 15       

Quote:

Trouble is, if you are going to rush or whatever, you wont get into Mythic. I'd use it if you know you're going to win as long as you have enough resources to pump units, and there is not much accessable gold left.


I agree, I was just pointing out that their is no point using it towards the end of an age, it is normally better to use it towards the beginning of whichever age you use it in.

Quote:

Thors dwarfes: do they gather wood at the same rate as normals villagers? I think i heard something about them collecting food faster, but not sure about wood.


Basically it is the same rate, there may be a slight difference, but not anything to worry about.

Quote:

Thor all dwarf economy: Is this good? in the sybex game guide there is a build order, for a strat with only dwarfs and TAs. is this a good idea?


It does work. I'm not very good with norse, so I have only beaten te hard computer with them once, that was using only dwarfs for economic units (not including ox carravans when the gold ran out)

Quote:

Thor build order: does anyone have the "perfect" build order for Thor?


Its not normally best to use a predefined build order. It will depend on many factors.

Quote:

Thor jarls: Is it true that Thor jarls are stronger than Odin jarls? i've heard lots of people saying that they are stronger due to the extra armory techs. Is this true?


It sounds unlikely, maybe though.

[This message has been edited by harr (edited 09-28-2004 @ 12:19 PM).]

Quircus
Mortal
posted 28 September 2004 12:44 PM EDT (US)     7 / 15       
All-Dwarf is bad. Thor Dwarves have +25% Wood and Gold Gather Rates, but their Wood Gathering and Farming Rates are still lower than Gatherers (moreso with Wood), and so will affect you especially late-game.
harr
Mortal
posted 28 September 2004 12:50 PM EDT (US)     8 / 15       
Isn't the diffece something like 8% slower wood gathering (you say that the farming difference is less), so although you might want to phase in villagers later in the game dwarves will do fine in the early game when you need the food for advancing.
crocin
Mortal
posted 29 September 2004 11:18 AM EDT (US)     9 / 15       
well get the dwarves on wood too or may be mix them with gatherers.I m a 1750+ vanilla player & many top thor players have the dwarf:gaterer ratio 1:1 ie exactly equal.
Got it.If not check the 1900++ players.
pete722
Mortal
posted 29 September 2004 01:49 PM EDT (US)     10 / 15       
i used to be 18++ with thor, not anymore, but now i relatively suck =(
but i tend to put dwarfs on wood early on, as thor gets dwarfs for cheapers, but then as you get more econ ups, start to get more gatherers on wood, also i tend to go slighty heavy gold, so if food for gatherers becomes a problem, i have a little back up gold to use.
Meanotaur
Mortal
posted 29 September 2004 08:44 PM EDT (US)     11 / 15       
Thor Article (LONG) or Thor Article(LONG), I'm not sure which, but it has THE best info on thor. If u wanna know about Thor, go there.

One fine morning in the middle of the night, two dead boys got up to fight. Back to back, they faced each other, drew their swords and shot each other. A deaf policeman heard the noise, and ran to bury the two dead boys. If you don't believe this story's true, ask the blind man. He saw it, too.
The wise man will not call himself so. - Meanotaur
Perfection is a flaw because man is not supposed to be perfect. - Meanotaur
DeathAndPain
Mortal
posted 01 October 2004 01:41 AM EDT (US)     12 / 15       
To finally stop the guessing and settle the dwarf question:

  • Thor dwarves get a 25% bonus on their base gathering rate for food and wood, causing them to almost (but not completely) match the gathering speed of gatherers.

  • Thor dwarves only get their econ upgrades based on their base stats (without the 25%). This means that they benefit less from food and wood upgrades, causing your gatherers to become notably better as the game progresses.

  • All dwarves (including Thor) have a slightly longer build time than gatherers.

    Conclusion

    In the early stages of the game, it makes very little difference if you are using a dwarf or a gatherer on a food or wood resource. However, due to the longer training time, you will have less economic units if you make dwarves instead of gatherers. This is the main drawback of the all-dwarf-build.

    In the later stages of the game, when you have an increasing number of econ upgrades, you dwarves will become considerably worse than your gatherers, so it pays relocating them on gold and replacing them by gatherers.

    However, being able to make econ units for gold instead of food is a huge bonus for Norse, especially in the early ages. If you are saving for advancement to the next age (or need food for any other reason), you can always keep making dwarves. Having such a balanced econ is much more worth than the second or two that you save on training gatherers for food that you actually need elsewhere. Food becomes less valuable in the later ages, so you should be able to replace the dwarves with villagers in the long run (and if you forget in the heat of battle, it is no catastrophe either).

    Dwarves are also a main reason why I believe Norse (particularly Thor) are not at a disadvantage on food-scarce maps like Oasis. The other cultures have a constant drain on their food reserves no matter what (unless they stop making villagers). Norse is free to start with gatherers, but can always switch to dwarves and spend the precious food on something else. Odin and Loki are somewhat limited in that respect (because their dwarves pretty much suck on anything but gold), but all civs need units that gather gold, and while making these, Odin and Loki will not have to spend any food, too.

    In archaic I would always start out with gatherers, because then their higher training speed has plenty of time to pay off before you need the 400 food for classical age. If the map is scarce on food, you can switch to dwarves in later archaic and not spend any more food while you are using your already existing gatherers to gather the required food for the advance. If you find that the map is rich on huntables, you place a higher number on gatherers on food so that you gather enough food to keep making gatherers (except for gold) and still get a good classical time. -> flexibility

    Remember: The worst dwarf is way better than not having made any econ unit because you did not have the necessary food.

  • WrathofAtlantis
    Mortal
    posted 01 October 2004 05:21 PM EDT (US)     13 / 15       
    I also like to play as Thor, however, I mostly use the dwarves to gather gold (Thor not only improve dwarves food and wood gathering, but gold as well) and use Gatherers on gathering wood and food.
    Fazy
    Mortal
    posted 02 October 2004 05:14 AM EDT (US)     14 / 15       
    I'm sure thor doesn't improve dwarf gold gather rate.
    harr
    Mortal
    posted 02 October 2004 12:40 PM EDT (US)     15 / 15       

    Quote:

    Thor not only improve dwarves food and wood gathering, but gold as well


    I am almost certain that you are wrong there. Not completely cetain, but almost certain.
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