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Topic Subject:Build Orders
Pug
Mortal
posted 12 May 2005 08:23 PM EDT (US)         
Ive seen a few posts (though its really slow now) about build orders. So hey, lets post good build orders for each civ. And please only post known solid bos for each civ on water, hunting and those other maps.

Here is my Thor hunting map bo, which is what Vagabond_Ourk uses almost every hunting map.

AQ vills

Cast Dwarven Mine, two starting dwarfs to that mine


Vills 1-7 + ox cart to same hunting, get hunting dogs right away and have your second created vill shoot a different animal to get that one favor and get pig sticker.

Next 4 vills + an ox cart to wood (build a house near gold or a tc)

2 dwarfs to gold

ox to gold

aq dwarfs to gold (build the temple as soon, AS SOON as you have the res , so have this spot in mind and have your ulf near it as the res get close.)

AQ dwarfs to gold

Click up

You will get sub 5 min advances regularly with this. But you cant miss a beat and always have the next food source visible.

AuthorReplies:
TOAO_Power
Mortal
posted 12 May 2005 09:21 PM EDT (US)     1 / 26       
Thor On Medit for AoM Vanilla

Cast Dwarven Mine.
2 Dwarves(starting) to the mine

4 villis to wood with the oxcart.)

1 vill to food

1 Dwarf food. Alternate 1 vill, 2 dwarves to food.

Build temple around 2:15. Click up at 3:10-3:15.

For food, if you can get an auroch or boar near TC, do it. Otherwise you need 6-7 sheep. As soon as you get enough food to advance, switch all food gatheres and dwarves to wood.

Leave your initial 2 dwarves on gold, make an ox cart as soon as you are up, and send them to big mine when GP mine runs out.

Build a 2nd dock in transition, scout out your enemy, if he has triple dock, you'll need a triple dock

Build armory around 6-7 minutes, you'll need pierce and weapons ups. And Flaming Arrows wouldn't hurt.

Artiem
Mortal
posted 13 May 2005 02:07 PM EDT (US)     2 / 26       
The problem with build orders, of course, is the huge amount of variables. The type of map, the opponent's God choices, team game vs 1v1, and your intended strategy are obvious examples of factors that will (hopefully!) change your build order. But I agree that a BO is a big help for people learning the game, and a great fall-back position if you're just not sure what you want to do. So in the spirit of participation, here's a couple of Hades BO's:

1. Land map, good hunting: Your dream map
2 ways to go, quick up to fight a rusher or to rush him yourself, and power up to boom and utilize map control.

To go up quick:
1 vill builds granary while other 2 immediately begin to hunt; Get hunting dogs.
Next 3 vills also hunt, total of 6.
Next vill builds woodpile or chops stragglers (look for spot near wood AND gold, build there if at all possible).
Send another vill to wood.
Next vill builds a house, then goes to gold.
Another Gold, then wood, then gold. You now have 6 on food and three each on wood and gold.
Now just keep putting vills on food; as you near 100 gold, grab one to build your temple and pray.
You should end up with about 22 to 23 vills. I recommend getting a hero, THEN hitting the button for classical.
You can get up more quickly with just 2 vills each on wood and gold, but your economy will suffer badly.

To power up:
Same start, except put 8 vills on food to start.
Then 4 on wood, 4 on gold. Remember to build a house!
Back on food... and get the hand axe and pick axe upgrades ASAP. Husbandry is also helpful. You're not worried about rushing to classical, you're going for the boom. Your population will likely be 27 or 28 (have the temple builder put up a 2nd house before praying). When you hear the gong signifying you're classical, take a quick look at your resources... woohoo! If I'm using this power up, I'll have 2 on the temple, and put out a 2nd Cyclops ASAP. I'll get those second econ upgrades, then decide whether to spam military buildings or grab a couple of TC's.

As TOAO_POWER said, know where your hunters will be going next. Don't let them go idle while you decide what to do!

2. Water map, esp Mediterranean
I don't use the same build exactly on all water maps, but it's pretty close. This one's for a fish boom.

Initially, two guys go to wood, third builds dock, then house, then goes to wood. Autoq fishing boats at dock.
First five vills out of the TC go to food -- preferably hunting, pigs if not, berries if desperate. Scout should find several pigs as well while scouting.
Next 12 or 13 vills go to wood. You'll need another house and another dock about the time you get to pop 20.
When foodies run out of food, put them all on gold. You may want to put one or two more vills from the TC on gold as well. Start the temple when you see you're at about 300 food. Advance, and then get hand axe, and possibly pick axe.

This is a little off topic, but here's a couple ideas about winning that all-important early naval engagement. You have 2 great choices for god powers, Restore, which can heal your whole navy, docks, and fishing fleet, or Pestilence, which can render some of his docks useless for a while. One thing I try to do is throw down an armory and get the first pierce armor upgrade, it really helps your ships. If you're doing well on wood a third dock is nice during the transisition to classical as well. Meanwhile, watch your back! Have some hoplites standing by in case the enemy decides to blow off the water and make a land army.

Woof, long post. Sorry about that...


(8-{)aRTieM

[This message has been edited by Artiem (edited 05-13-2005 @ 02:08 PM).]

Pug
Mortal
posted 13 May 2005 05:09 PM EDT (US)     3 / 26       

Quote:

As TOAO_POWER said, know where your hunters will be going next. Don't let them go idle while you decide what to do!


Where does he say that?

TOAO_Power
Mortal
posted 13 May 2005 10:42 PM EDT (US)     4 / 26       
Not exactly like that, but you need to plan ahead, whether you can get the auroch or boar close enough, if you have enough sheep...
crazy_thor
Mortal
posted 14 May 2005 07:35 PM EDT (US)     5 / 26       
Heres my BO for thor fast heroic. I do this on high hunting maps versus isis, ra and hades.

starting dwarves to dwarven mine
9 gatherers to food
5 gatherers to straggler trees
Ox Cart to wood
dwarf to nearby gold mine
Ox cart to gold mine
Build temple as soon as you have the resources
2 dwarves to gold
Advance through freyja
should have 9 on food, 5 on wood, 5 on gold.

During transition train 2 hersir, build a couple of houses and an armoury. Research handaxe and pickaxe. When you reach classical, AQ dwarves to gold, and build 2 longhouses. When you have 10 dwarves on gold, you should have enough resources to advance through bragi, train ulfsarks while advancing to help build your 2 hill forts.

Is this build order any good?

Lord of terroR
Mortal
posted 15 May 2005 03:26 AM EDT (US)     6 / 26       
i would say swith some woodies to food during advance, otherwise you might get food probs

The power of hell is coming...
FoH; Forces of Hell
Pug
Mortal
posted 15 May 2005 09:14 AM EDT (US)     7 / 26       
Yeah, because your electing to not get hunting dogs or pig sticker you would surely need more on food. 8 might be fine on foow with both pig sticker and hunting dogs though.
TOAO_Power
Mortal
posted 15 May 2005 09:58 AM EDT (US)     8 / 26       
My FH as Odin, which I got 1755 100% wins with O_o

Reseach hunting dogs.
First 2 vills to food, cast great hunt if decent sized.
5 vills to food
1 vill to wood
1 vill+oxcart gold
1 vill gold
1 vill wood
1 vill gold
1 vill wood
1 vill gold
1 vill food
1 vill gold
1 vill gold
Click up around 4:35-4:50.
Make dwarves if you have the gold, but remember the temple and house.
When in classical, make 3-4 dwarves to gold, make armory right away.

Use ravens to find his main wood source. Burn it down.

Once you get up, lay down 2 HF's in the middle of the map, preferably covering gold or a TC.

Make jarls/husks depending on who your facing.

Take a TC when you can

Cast WW on his 2nd gold source if Greek. If Eggy, use while in a fight. Or on his gold, make sure you have a few jarls there too

Mighty Noldor
Mortal
posted 15 May 2005 11:13 AM EDT (US)     9 / 26       
Thats the reason why the shift button was made.
Clicking on aggressive animals with shift is much easier. Especially when you´re Thor and have Pig Sticker (or if you´re Ra and have Skin of the Rhyno).

"Let me hear the batlle cry, Calling on the wind
Let me see the banners fly, Before the storm begins
Let me feel the spirits soar, Destroy the enemy
Striking at the evil core, For all the world to see"
Judas Priest - One Shot at Glory
nick2
Mortal
posted 15 May 2005 05:40 PM EDT (US)     10 / 26       
toao_power is that for vanilla or titans and does it matter which?
TOAO_Power
Mortal
posted 15 May 2005 06:31 PM EDT (US)     11 / 26       
First Post: Vanilla

2nd Post: AoT. Haven't tried it on AoM yet

crazy_thor
Mortal
posted 16 May 2005 00:38 AM EDT (US)     12 / 26       

Quote:

Yeah, because your electing to not get hunting dogs or pig sticker you would surely need more on food. 8 might be fine on foow with both pig sticker and hunting dogs though.

I get both pigsticker and hunting dogs as soon as I can.
With that BO I can get to heroic at about 7:40 with 8-10 military (excluding free myth)units and enough resources to build 2 hill forts.

I seem to do well with that build order, however after getting to heroic I seem to suck

Reckless_Boomer
Mortal
posted 16 May 2005 04:26 AM EDT (US)     13 / 26       
depends on what minor gods you chose and what units you make next. for example, as thor you could easily just make some huskarls with jarls and rams, and just go to the enemy TC and wipe it out. however, it really does depend on your opponent's choices and attacks.
Pug
Mortal
posted 16 May 2005 07:14 AM EDT (US)     14 / 26       

Quote:

I get both pigsticker and hunting dogs as soon as I can.
With that BO I can get to heroic at about 7:40 with 8-10 military (excluding free myth)units and enough resources to build 2 hill forts.

Odin doesnt get Pig Sticker.........Only Thor does.

When posting a bo, it does matter to mention which archaic techs you get.

TOAO_Power
Mortal
posted 16 May 2005 08:08 AM EDT (US)     15 / 26       
With my odin FH I get 2 forts down with 6-7 military units, and can pump out medium jarls. Or heavy jarls, matters what map
nick2
Mortal
posted 16 May 2005 03:52 PM EDT (US)     16 / 26       
ok toao_power 2 things first were you the one that made the odin guide on aotsanctuary.com if you're not shouldn't you say thats where you got your strat from and 2nd in your fh strat you dont use dwarves? i just wanna clarify i am not questioning i just wanna clarafy plz anwser (i can't spell) ASAP!!!!!!

[This message has been edited by nick2 (edited 05-16-2005 @ 03:54 PM).]

TOAO_Power
Mortal
posted 16 May 2005 06:12 PM EDT (US)     17 / 26       
1) No, I made that BO myself, and didn't make the guide on AoTs. I also did not consult the guide on AoTs, but only used the BO I used for the Odin FM.

2)I make dwarves in classical, usually 3-4.

nick2
Mortal
posted 16 May 2005 08:09 PM EDT (US)     18 / 26       
well you've got about 6 gold people on the fh thig so which ones are dwarves? =( not as fast reply as i was expecting

[This message has been edited by nick2 (edited 05-16-2005 @ 09:10 PM).]

crazy_thor
Mortal
posted 16 May 2005 11:44 PM EDT (US)     19 / 26       

Quote:

Odin doesnt get Pig Sticker.........Only Thor does.

I mentioned at the start of my build order that this is for a THOR fast heroic.

Sorry about the techs, I forgot to mention that.

DeathAndPain
Mortal
posted 17 May 2005 03:46 AM EDT (US)     20 / 26       
The following TT BO (probably viable in vanilla as well, although untested there) is good on most RM land maps (especially hunting maps, but also Ghost Lake) against non-Loki Norse opponents:

  • initial dwarves to Thor mine, research HD and pig sticker asap
  • Your ulf builds the obligatory house and goes scouting. Do some scouting around your base first if you have no huntables in sight range yet, but do not forget the house.
  • 6 villies & initial ox cart -> hunt
  • 3 villies with a new cart after the first of them -> wood
  • 2nd ulf -> near enemy base, make temple asap. One ulf will do, but using both is safer, because he might spot your construction site with his scouting ulf and harass your builder. When you get the second ulf, you do not have the wood for the temple yet, but that is fine, as you need to run towards the enemy base first. When he gets there, you should have got the required wood just in time.
  • dwarf -> Thor mine (you do not want to spend wood for another cart yet, as you need it for the temple). Needless to say that you waypoint your three Thor mine dwarves on your regular mine so that they go there on automatic when the Thor mine is done.
  • dwarf + cart -> your regular mine
  • aq dwarves to the regular mine until your temple is complete and you have the 400 for classical age
  • Advance to classical age with Freyja. Do not get any econ upgrades. You are going for a rush and need every bit of resources right now.
  • aq hersirs in the temple as soon as you have the food (which will be very soon after you started the advance
  • make one more house during the advance. Do not make more houses yet as you need to save wood for longhouses
  • when you hit classical age, make longhouses as your wood supplies allow and aq ulfs in them using food that you stockpiled during the advance)
  • Attack his main base. If he has made a forward build as well, attack that one. You are most likely earlier in classical age and have an economy which is not strong, but tailored to produce what you need now. Your TC keeps making dwarves for the mine. Go for his buildings that are not under TC fire. Attack any units he may have in the area as long as they are not protected by TC fire. Destroy his houses, temple, longhouses, towers, whatever you can get.
  • when your food reserves are depleted, switch to RC. If your food income still is not high enough, you can consider stopping hersir production in the temple. Later you can use more food for aq valks. Be careful when considering making TA: You are only cutting wood with three villies and will need more houses and perhaps longhouses!

    This rush is usually successful at a 1750 level. You hit classical age earlier and destroy several of his buildings, which further delays his unit production. Unless he has done a similar build, you should be able to destroy his forward build if he made any. If he did not, you can still destroy several buildings at his home base and have secured map control.

    However, having played this BO often I found several mistakes that are pretty tempting, but can be avoided with discipline:

  • Do not start with RC instead of ulfs. RC may be the overall better units, but train way slower than ulfsarks. Making RC right away will slow your rush so that it fails. You can switch to RC when your food income is no longer able to power the fast ulf production anyway. By then, your TC will also have produced enough dwarves to make the gold-intensive RC. Do not be afraid of enemy TA: TA train slowly, way slower than your ulfs. He cannot get enough of them quickly enough to impress your ulfs. If he gets one or two, attack those with priority. Your ulfs can easily kill a few TAs if the latter have no proper meat shield.

  • In the long run, you can send dwarves to tasks other than gold, but do not do this too early. Subtract 4 from your number of dwarves when determining if you have enough on gold, because you need the income of 4 dwarves to keep up your continuous dwarf production.

  • When you have smashed several enemy buildings, do not believe you have already won! You are in a good position, but a good enemy will be able to make new longhouses close to his TC and get towers. Doing a kamikaze attack on his TC or otherwise fighting within his building fire will get you killed! Expect him to get a few RC soon. While defending his base (at which you are smoking up your units), he will send them into your rear land and raid your weak economy. In order to prevent this, you must stop your rush when there are no more buildings left which you can safely attack (safely means without fighting in enemy building fire). Remember that while you did severe damage to him by killing his buildings and perhaps a few combat units, you have not weakened his economy, which is likely stronger than yours because he went to classical later. Your map control and the damage you have inflicted is worth more, but only if you are cautious. Expect him to mass a pop-limit army, perhaps with lots of TA, and then strike out at your forward build. In order to prevent that, you must end your rush in time and then secure your FB with a few towers immediately! This may allow him to go heroic earlier than you do, but a fat fortified forward build in the middle of the map, right besides his home base, is worth more than being in heroic age! Needless to say that you should also go heroic as soon as possible.

  • I cannot emphasize it enough, the main trap of this BO is being gleeful about the successful rush and spending your time and resources doing small battles that no longer have much importance, while he is making raiding forces, assembling a pop-limit army, or going for heroic age. Instead, once you no longer have tasty targets in range, seal your advantage with a few towers at your FB and send a few units home for raid defense. By then you should also have some RC, so you can start raids of your own. In the long run he will also have problems with farming, because he most likely made his new longhouses close to his TC, where his farms should be. Your task is to find his remote hunters and take them out. Strangle him and go heroic, and the game is won!

  • Just for those who did not pay attention: This BO is primarily for use against Odin and Thor, so spare me with comments how it will not work vs Isis or whatever.

    Darkness is a state of mind
    Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
    Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
  • nick2
    Mortal
    posted 17 May 2005 03:46 PM EDT (US)     21 / 26       
    could anyone assume which gold villi's are dwarves in toao_power's fh w/ odin?
    DeathAndPain
    Mortal
    posted 20 May 2005 02:23 AM EDT (US)     22 / 26       
    no

    Darkness is a state of mind
    Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
    Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
    cake0792
    Mortal
    posted 21 May 2005 03:38 PM EDT (US)     23 / 26       
    is this only for norse? That's all I see, but it doesn't say that in Pug's first post.

    ¸ ¸ ¸ ¸ ¸ ¸
    | | | | | |
    |¯¯¯¯¯¯|
    |¯¯¯¯¯¯|
    mmm.... cake....
    TOAO_Power
    Mortal
    posted 21 May 2005 05:12 PM EDT (US)     24 / 26       
    I only make 1-2 dwarves in my Odin BO in archaic. I make them around 4 minutes.
    Once classical, I'll make 3-4 more and then advance to heroic.
    Artiem
    Mortal
    posted 23 May 2005 01:53 PM EDT (US)     25 / 26       

    Quote:

    cake0792 says:
    is this only for norse? That's all I see, but it doesn't say that in Pug's first post.

    Um, that's upsetting because I spent a long time typing out some ideas on Hades BO's. It's the second reply under this topic.


    (8-{)aRTieM
    Pug
    Mortal
    posted 23 May 2005 05:20 PM EDT (US)     26 / 26       
    Well of course Vagabond_ourk is #1 atm and he plays thor.
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