Do the data files spontaneously "round," as in, change, for an unknown reason, the values that you put into them?
The first time this issue came up was ni GD when an "ordinary" forumer seemed stunned to hear that Skadi's Winter Harvest could possibly give a 20% farming improvement. So he started a thread about it asking the GDers about what they knew. I scan GD from time to time so when I came across that thread, I used my modding skills to show that Winter Harv3st does give a 20% increase. For in techtreex for "Winter Harvest" we find (had to replace certain circumflexes otherwise the text was deleted):
Look at the effects and you should be able to decipher that the upgrade is 20%. Thinking I had settled the matter, I did not check back on GD for a while. When I came back another forumer (who is recognized for his game play advice, but is not a modder) had told me that you cannot rely on the data files because they are faulty and have a tendancy to "round" the values put into them. As an alleged example he stated that Odin's natural hunting Or so this forumer said. I immeadiatly posted back once I discovered that in techtreex under "age 1 odin" there is indeed an effect that improves his hunters by 20%, and I had always heard that it was 10% as well. Though I did not believe him right away, I could not conceive how all my experiances in modding could have betrayed me all this time. Also, think of all the other techs that are set to improve by 10% and in fact do just that. So I posted back with my reasons and logic for rejecting him at that point and for a little while we were in a debate over wheather the data files round or not. Eventually our "debate" (if you could dignify it with that name) degraded into a back-and-forth commentary of him refusing to consider my evidence or logic, he seemed immune to reason and did not shift his position in the slightest. He brushed aside everything I said because, according to him "It was all proven He continued responding a little longer with a thinly-veiled antagonism toward me and my evidence. In effect he was saying "I know I'm right, I know you're wrong, and there is no need to consider your thoughts at all, becuase this was My opponent rejected my test however using a BS excuse. (This was someone who claimed that he would not reject a fact that didn't fit with his worldview, and also someone who spoke extremely highly of test results throughout the thread. Though now that I think about it, he could have been misguided due to his inexperiance with modding.) I gave one last refution, validating my test results. He either did not see the reply (unlikely, as he is a very frequent GDer) or chose to ignore it. And that was the end of the discussion. ( I would have simply shrugged him off as simply one data-ly misguided or ignorant soul, had a few others not also supported him and also I had to get into the same discussion with my friend who made the same claim herself (much later, and this was not on the forums). Becuase my position is easily falsifiable, and no one wants to be believing something untrue, I bring the question to you fellow modders: Do the game's data files somehow round/change the values that are put in them? If you think so, can you find an instance? While I was in the Winter Harvest thread, I realized that several conditions need to be made clear to count as a conclusive case of rounding: 1. The "data files" in question must be those which apply definite values to easily testable qualities. Mainly, if not exclusively, the ones in Data2.bar (Proto and Techtree specifically). A graphics bug would not constitute an error, as the files in question are imprecise do not apply exact values in exact ways. 2. The effect must be direct. One could agrue that the "Kithra of Apollo" makes villies work faster because the spend less time walking back-and-forth from dropsite-to-resource. But this wouldn't count either, because that relic doesn't acually make them This point became important to specify, I noticed, after my opponent pointed out that husbandry increases farming rate because the villagers don't waste as much time walking. The effect here is indirect. Villies get double the food carry capacity and naturally should gather double the food before wastful walking steps. The villagers do not acually 3. If you plan on sharing a test result, either to support or refute my or somebody elses claims, please quote the data file that controls what you are attempting to test (i.e. protox/techtreex), so that we can see what the game says the effect should be, and then conduct your test showing what the result is and compare the two. Screenshots would be nice so that we do not have to rely solely on your raw word. With the above conditions in mind, I have NEVER found a rounding error in proto or techtree. What ever values they have in them, that's exactly what the game goes by. But clearly, others disagree. Do you think, like me, that my opponent and his few supporters were/are simply mistaken in thier convictions, possibly because they know little about modding? Or do you know of an instance that would confirm thier claims are true (this does not have to only apply to villie gather rates)? I'd like to hear your input on this. [This message has been edited by Magnum Pi (edited 08-01-2006 @ 03:26 PM).]
bonus was set at 10% when the game first came out, but the game's data files had rounded the the 10% down to 0% effectively eliminating it. Only when ES raised the 10% to 20% did Odin acually get the desired 10% increase.
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