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Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Modding and Scripting » Easier way to model than Gmax?
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Topic Subject:Easier way to model than Gmax?
Magnum Pi
Mortal
posted 04 October 2006 09:54 PM EDT (US)         
I have been trying to improve my modelling, and there is a new unit I want to add to my personal modded game that will require a new model to work properly. The only problem is, Gmax seems to be a good model editor only if you want to very slightly change an existing model, you'd need to create every vertex/face/polygon/edge manually if you wan to create your own model from scratch. (Unless there is some option I don't know about, in which case enlightenment would be helpful).
But creating your own model from scratch like that is nearly impossible! Is there a quicker, simpler program I can use to create custom models?
AuthorReplies:
PrplPplEater
Mortal
posted 05 October 2006 03:07 AM EDT (US)     1 / 16       
Yes. Try Zmodeler, Wings3D, Blender, Rhino 3D, Maya Student Edition...

Gmax is literally specifically built so that you can't use it for anything. Although there are export scripts out there, Autodesk purposefully tried to make it impossible to be useful for anything back when it was still maintained.

Magnum Pi
Mortal
posted 05 October 2006 06:14 AM EDT (US)     2 / 16       
I gotta leave for school, but thanks, I'll try searching for those when I get back.
Argalius
Mortal
posted 05 October 2006 01:43 PM EDT (US)     3 / 16       
The point of 3D programs like GMAX is that you do place every polygone by yourself. There are different manners on which you could do this though. There's so called box moddeling, you start with a box (or multiple) cut, move the vertices, cut again etc. 3D moddeling can be pretty hard, just because it's 3D, good reference would be a good start.

|| argalius.elpea.net
|| Cherub at AoE3H
|| In honor of FlipBizcut
|| Mod: The Age of Crusades
Magnum Pi
Mortal
posted 05 October 2006 04:13 PM EDT (US)     4 / 16       
I tried looking through the modelers that PrplPplEater recomended and so far Z modeler is the easiest. But it still is fairly hard. If what Argalius says is ture then I'm surprised that modelling (in practice) is even possible! You must have to be a genious in order to built each model polygon by polygon/edge by edge, etc. How do some people do it so well?

[This message has been edited by Magnum Pi (edited 10-05-2006 @ 07:29 PM).]

Magnum Pi
Mortal
posted 05 October 2006 07:31 PM EDT (US)     5 / 16       
Hate to double post, but I wanted to bump this up.

I'm at a stand still right now. It looks like modelling is just not going to happen for me. that Z Modeler program makes it acually possible to build models (mostly because I can also move the dang polygons around, unlike in gmax) the only problem is Z Modeler can only export files into .3ds's, not .3dx's.

So I thought I could just save a .3ds in Z Modeler, open it with gmax, then save it as a .3dx, then AoM-Ed could take over. Trouble is, I build a model that looks perfect in Z modeler, then when it gets opened in gmax, all the figures are out of place and distorted, and then I'm stuck, because in gmax, you can't move the figures freely anymore, so I'm simply stuck. I'd like to model very much, but I'm really at a dead end. Does anyone have any good ideas?

Edit: Alright, i figured out how to move objects properly in Gmax, and I started over in creating my models, but now when ever I try to use the "export_gmax" script that I need to use in order to keep the file as a .3ds/.3dx, I get an error saying that "mesh is undefined" or something like that. Any clue?

[This message has been edited by Magnum Pi (edited 10-06-2006 @ 07:59 PM).]

Brownboot
Mortal
posted 07 October 2006 03:24 PM EDT (US)     6 / 16       
@ Magnum: Yes, its very hard. If it was easy everyone would do it and nobody could get a decent job doing this sort of thing. Read some tutorials www.3dtotal.com if you want to learn to model. Read the 3ds max tutorials as well, its the same principals.

My modelling/texturing services are for hire if you get desperate. MSN me (allen@the-whites.net) if you have questions.

Magnum Pi
Mortal
posted 07 October 2006 04:47 PM EDT (US)     7 / 16       
Thank you for the offer, Brownboot. I acually went back to practice AIs for a while because with that exporting error, I was really at a deadend. But the tutorial is good from what I've read of it, and It's good to know I could ask for your help. I'll probably continue, for a little while, the AI things I've been tweaking, but soon it will be back to modelling! (I discovered you can place and move entire geometric figures, rather than exclusively verticies, faces, edges, etc. and that relieves me somewhat.)
Stephen Caines
Mortal
posted 09 October 2006 06:55 AM EDT (US)     8 / 16       
@Magnum Pi: The first time you changed an icon was difficult, the first time you changed an _anim was difficult, the first time you changed a texture was difficult - but you did all of these.

I gave up on modelling five times before one day it just clicked.

I doubt if one modelling package will magically make it happen, but like all aspects of modding a bit of persistence will pay off.

My suggestion is to start with something easy - a six-sided dice for example - and then an eight-side dice, two die in sequence and so forth. Once the basic process is familiar, you will be amazed how easier it becomes.

Argalius
Mortal
posted 09 October 2006 11:30 AM EDT (US)     9 / 16       

Quote:

"mesh is undefined" or something like that. Any clue?


Note that your model should be called "Animated".

|| argalius.elpea.net
|| Cherub at AoE3H
|| In honor of FlipBizcut
|| Mod: The Age of Crusades
Magnum Pi
Mortal
posted 09 October 2006 05:59 PM EDT (US)     10 / 16       
@Stephen: Very true, that's why I said I wasn't giving up completely, just halting a little, and what with that exporting error, I reached a standstill. I did want to work on AI's anyway for a while (which I'm also much better at now!)

@Argalius: All I have to is add "Animated" to my model's name? It's that simple? (Or did I misunderstand you?)

Argalius
Mortal
posted 10 October 2006 12:58 PM EDT (US)     11 / 16       
You should name your model "Animated", you can do this somewhere on the right, there's probably now something like "Box01" or "Plane01" or something similar. Just rename it, also note that your model should only be made up of one object.

|| argalius.elpea.net
|| Cherub at AoE3H
|| In honor of FlipBizcut
|| Mod: The Age of Crusades
Magnum Pi
Mortal
posted 10 October 2006 06:20 PM EDT (US)     12 / 16       
what do you mean by "one object"? Do you mean polygon? (If so, I'm doomed.) Or do you mean that all the polygons, faces, edges, etc. need to be connected? (If so, then I'm a little stuck as well, because for this unit, I'll need to have it's projectile be part of its model, so that part of it will need to disconnect from the rest of the model.)

And when you say I should name the model "Animated", and that I can do this "somewhere on the right." What exactly does this mean... I don't think I get it.

Brownboot
Mortal
posted 11 October 2006 12:07 PM EDT (US)     13 / 16       
Projectiles are usually seperate models. You need to do some more research and understand exactly what you have to do before you proceed.
Argalius
Mortal
posted 12 October 2006 04:09 AM EDT (US)     14 / 16       
*sigh* With one object I mean exactly that, one object, not one polygon (that's one triangle :\) but only one object. You can merge objects together with some sort of button called "merge X" (X is a variable I don't know it from the top of my head) you can find it when you've selected Polygon and then scroll down in the RIGHT menu (also where you should change the name). Also, as Brownboot said, projectiles have to be other models, otherwise they won't do any damage because they'll never collide with the target.

Really, just try some things in GMAX I can't tell you everything you should do.


|| argalius.elpea.net
|| Cherub at AoE3H
|| In honor of FlipBizcut
|| Mod: The Age of Crusades
Magnum Pi
Mortal
posted 12 October 2006 05:06 PM EDT (US)     15 / 16       

Quote:

With one object I mean exactly that, one object, not one polygon (that's one triangle :\) but only one object.

That's a relief, I was wondering if I'd need to cry because you can only have one polygon.

Quote:

You can merge objects together with some sort of button called "merge X" (X is a variable I don't know it from the top of my head) you can find it when you've selected Polygon and then scroll down in the RIGHT menu (also where you should change the name).

I'll look for these. This is what I was looking for.

Quote:

Also, as Brownboot said, projectiles have to be other models, otherwise they won't do any damage because they'll never collide with the target.

I didn't forget this. It's just that the unit I have in mind will throw a projectile straight forward instead of up in the air, like an arrow is used in the proto action "RangedAttack".

This is why, as a hopefully clever work around, I had in mind to have the projectile appear to be shooting straight forward, because that "projectile" would be part of the unit's attack animation. The real projectile, I planned, would be an arrow-like duplicate that would be invisible (no anim file). This way it could fire the projectile out the top of it without that projectile being seen. It would take a lot of testing to get the invisible projectile's speed just high enough where it would collide with the targets at the same time the fake projectile would, but in theory, this could work.

Quote:

Really, just try some things in GMAX I can't tell you everything you should do.

I hope I wasn't coming across as a bother, because my intention was to ask for help on things I couldn't get right myself.

Argalius
Mortal
posted 13 October 2006 02:55 AM EDT (US)     16 / 16       

Quote:

It would take a lot of testing to get the invisible projectile's speed just high enough where it would collide with the targets at the same time the fake projectile would, but in theory, this could work.


Nice idea, except your forgot one thing. Units can fire at different places withing their LOS, the target could be near or far away. With your animation your fake projectile will either not hit the target because it's too far away or it will penetrate the target because it's too close.

|| argalius.elpea.net
|| Cherub at AoE3H
|| In honor of FlipBizcut
|| Mod: The Age of Crusades
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