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Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy and General Discussion » Why Set Isn't A Problem (Facts)
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Topic Subject:Why Set Isn't A Problem (Facts)
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JetSolo
Mortal
posted 23 April 2003 00:00 AM EDT (US)         
I ran across a great point that forumer:

LKS_Cyanide wrote on MFO : http://www.mrfixitonline.com/readTopic.asp?PostingId=1263387


Quoted From LKS_Cyanide:


"Why SET isn't a problem. Part II.

Civilization Win Pct Games Used
Greek
Zeus 44% 13,254 12%
Hades 46% 11,094 10%
Poseidon 52% 12,114 11%
Greek 47% 36,462 32%

Egyptian
Isis 50% 11,234 10%
Ra 44% 4,496 4%
Set 55% 10,500 9%
Egyptian 51% 26,230 23%

Norse
Odin 53% 16,412 14%
Thor 51% 13,815 12%
Loki 51% 21,039 18%
Norse 51% 51,266 45%

Source: Aom.Holbert.org April 20, 2003 (WEEKLY STAT QUERIE)

As you can see, the winning percentage for SET is 55%, however, only 9% of all those who play, choose Set. If anything, check out the Norse. 53% for Odin...and it's being played by people who are considerably less skilled than those who are playing SET. (As evidenced by the 14% of those who are playing that civ.)

If anything, the evidence suggests that ODIN is more overpowered than SET is.

A good explanation would be that for ODIN to grab early map control, all he has to do is send his Ulfie forward and not get detected. For SET to grab early map control, well, it requires a hell of a lot more micro'ing.

What about the accusations that only the top 20 players are all SET? Well, let's take a look at the PROOF, shall we?

Top 25 Avg 1736 90% 15 16:19 5:43 12:43 21:17 4.73 7.72 8.09 6.32 0.11 Set (22%) 2003-04-20
1. KGB_Skipper 1761 94% 17 14:33 6:00 11:34 19:12 4.73 7.35 6.91 7.55 0.10 Isis (59%) 2003-04-20
2. ZM_YouLose 1750 100% 17 15:51 6:54 11:43 19:40 4.10 6.28 6.90 3.81 0.13 Set (100%) 2003-04-20
3. FOPT_Trial273 1749 100% 14 14:16 5:05 13:16 21:19 4.92 7.85 8.74 6.57 0.15 Loki (100%) 2003-04-20
4. IamWalker 1748 60% 28 22:09 5:47 12:08 27:02 4.48 7.65 8.55 6.43 0.10 Set (64%) 2003-04-20
5. KGB_Brim 1743 93% 16 15:22 5:47 13:30 22:21 4.46 6.64 7.89 6.24 0.08 Isis (50%) 2003-04-20
6. SethTraining 1743 100% 14 13:32 5:49 12:05 16:59 4.40 7.99 7.35 4.27 0.08 Set (100%) 2003-04-20
7. Schattendrache 1741 86% 15 15:53 5:27 11:47 21:48 4.28 8.08 7.67 5.10 0.07 Ra (67%) 2003-04-20
8. BPSK 1736 93% 16 16:15 5:15 12:27 14:42 5.40 8.29 10.35 6.64 0.12 Thor (100%) 2003-04-20
9. Skipper_TBE 1735 100% 12 13:27 5:52 12:08 17:34 4.80 7.26 5.87 6.69 0.17 Zeus (67%) 2003-04-18
10. limpbizkit_com 1735 89% 19 13:43 5:29 19:38 23:31 4.25 5.50 7.30 6.43 0.15 Thor (79%) 2003-04-20
11. Zg_GoBo 1734 94% 19 15:50 5:34 12:51 21:50 4.98 8.42 8.09 6.99 0.10 Isis (37%) 2003-04-19
12. Anne_Nurmi_be 1733 100% 16 18:53 6:30 13:30 23:21 5.04 8.89 8.88 7.32 0.11 Set (75%) 2003-04-18
13. L_Clan_MuambA 1733 100% 11 13:30 5:15 12:05 16:24 4.15 5.30 8.46 5.44 0.10 Thor (100%) 2003-04-20
14. TSoW_Yang 1732 73% 19 21:36 5:32 13:41 22:54 5.43 9.37 9.32 6.99 0.10 Pos (68%) 2003-04-20
15. SysRq 1732 100% 12 14:00 5:47 12:04 16:15 4.17 6.91 6.57 4.94 0.08 Pos (17%) 2003-04-18
16. L_Clan_XP 1732 100% 12 11:40 5:13 12:37 0:00 4.34 7.28 6.28 5.65 0.11 Odin (67%) 2003-04-20
17. IamYaMa 1731 100% 9 16:06 5:17 11:06 16:47 4.69 6.36 7.65 6.73 0.11 Thor (56%) 2003-04-20
18. camarapa 1730 87% 8 16:32 5:19 13:28 24:03 5.04 7.05 8.25 8.50 0.12 Thor (88%) 2003-04-20
19. Twist_Of_Fate 1729 92% 13 16:54 5:39 15:06 19:27 4.00 5.97 6.41 5.52 0.11 Odin (46%) 2003-04-20
20. Qu4rTz 1729 100% 9 20:51 6:06 12:15 23:31 5.38 8.78 8.99 7.53 0.12 Set (44%) 2003-04-19
21. Caliss_ST 1728 91% 24 19:45 6:06 10:50 20:39 5.61 9.90 10.91 6.42 0.12 Ra (79%) 2003-04-19
22. ArgoNaut_ZenZin_ 1728 60% 20 16:01 5:14 14:56 21:16 4.64 8.11 7.12 6.49 0.13 Odin (80%) 2003-04-20
23. BORN_TO_KlLL 1727 100% 11 11:23 5:21 13:09 23:10 4.67 8.01 7.05 5.50 0.11 Odin (100%) 2003-04-20
24. BaMBOoFoReST 1727 100% 10 14:16 5:33 15:27 26:17 4.25 6.86 7.19 6.62 0.04 Pos (100%) 2003-04-19
25. Andy2k3 1727 100% 10 13:56 5:35 13:32 0:00 4.27 6.83 5.73 6.45 0.09 Pos (100%) 2003-04-20


Source: AOM.Holbert.org (WEEKLY QUIRIE), April 20, 2003.

22% of all games played in the top 25 ARE SET. Well, well, that *could* explain the 55% winning rate of SET in the grand totals. Only FOUR of the top 25 are persistant SET players. In fact, there are more THOR (5) Whores than there are SET whores. Odin too has quite the following.

I think the mass stats speak for themselves. If anything, maybe RA or ISIS need to be given the Dr. Doolittle Ability too!

Other notes: Greeks continue to Suffer. RA has been decimated (4% utilization!) however, the ISIS revival lives on! "

Now, I didn't write this but I would say the evidence is convincing.


[This message has been edited by JetSolo (edited 04-23-2003 @ 00:04 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
Aetius
HG Alumnus
(id: Flavius Aetius)
posted 24 April 2003 01:49 AM EDT (US)     61 / 109       

Quote:

It's lame to say 'when you get to x skill level you'll see'. The only reason you start to have problems at that level is because you have hit your ability ceiling. Your meeting ppl who are finally your own skill level and you lose a few games.


No, it's not "lame", it's the truth. Listen to some of these people, they might actually be telling the truth. Set in the hands of a player who understands the game well enough can be incredibly hard to tangle with, and can actually help that certain player reach a level that he was not able to previously attain. (No offense hades, I know you're a good player, but if you don't mind you can be my example in this case. ) God choice should not effective your rating. Skill should.

<--Aetius-->
<--Ex Angel-->
<--eX Clan - Support HG-->
<--ESO: eX_Aetius-->
The Golden Arm
Mortal
posted 24 April 2003 02:03 AM EDT (US)     62 / 109       
Theres no reasoning with you people. You have the likes of Aetius, Wolf and Hope. Three highly skilled, even a 2000 player TELLING you that Set is overpowered.

But no ofcourse you 16/1700s are right. I mean what would they know.


ESO =AoA_Disarm_,pR150n_53X
Other Nicks IamDisarm ,When_Apes_Attack ,Run_With_Scissors ,Testament ,The_Golden_Arm ,
Have no way as way
Have no limitations as limitations - Bruce Lee

Tsunami
Mortal
posted 24 April 2003 07:21 AM EDT (US)     63 / 109       

Two of the three you mentioned only play Loki. The Loki rush is a well known (recently reduced) exploit that they have obviously been using to there advantage (hence on playing with Loki to bolster there ratings). Now along comes set who is a good counter to their fav tactic, of course they are going to say he is overpowered.

Now hope appears to be playing mostly Greek at the moment so I guess I have to respect his opinion on this matter. Still looking at his last several games and 3 of the 4 vs a set player he wins. I'll check out some of the rec games he has on his site when time avails.


Ignorance is never an excuse for not having and opinion
I don't want to alarm anyone, but it's time to panic

ESO names: au_skeuu; skeuu;
hades27
Mortal
posted 24 April 2003 07:53 AM EDT (US)     64 / 109       
np Aetius

Thing is, Set DO need fixing in Archaic. What I dont understand though, are 1800s-1900s players who DONT use Villies (as part of their army) to kill my animals. When I rush my enemy, I bring a bunch of Apes and a couple hyenas, with a few spearman/slinger. Now, if my opponent would bring about 5 villies as part of their army, more than half of my army would of been dead ><! Not even when I rush, when they try to rush me, they dont have any villies with them!><. I mean, people, you have to expect Set to use animals, its the same as expecting a Hersir rush and building counters for it..Set is still strong anyway >< in archaic


- BITE MY SHINY METAL ASS!!
ESO: IamHades27

Winner of the least favorite forumer AoMH's award 2002!!

[This message has been edited by hades27 (edited 04-24-2003 @ 08:02 AM).]

CSGaidin
Mortal
posted 24 April 2003 09:51 AM EDT (US)     65 / 109       
LKS_Plutonium, I still don't understand how being popular means being overpowered. You seem to have some strong reasoning behind your post, so I'd like it if you'd go into greater depth in regards to this topic.

Ever had one of those weeks where making a smurf account would instantly increase your rating?
futurehermit
Mortal
posted 24 April 2003 10:17 AM EDT (US)     66 / 109       
ummmm...

they don't bring villies cuz they want to keep bringing in resources, d'uh

you definitely should respect hope's opinion. hope's a 2k player who got there with ZEUS, the worst god. u definitely have to respect that. and when hope says that set is VERY tough to contend with, and doesn't say that about any other civilization, that sounds like some reliable advice.

yes, hope has beaten set. i watched his game vs. zworny as set on anatolia and hope bolts that priest. that was nice. however, anatolia is NOT watering hole, savanna, etc.

and, finally, i completely agree that god choice should NOT determine rating...

i.e., picking loki or set shouldn't make you 100pts better and picking zeus or ra shouldn't make you 100pts worse.

es fixed loki to make loki more manageable now. i expect the same with set in the next patch. es has already announced that set will be fixed in the next patch.

so for those of u who bandwagon jump to feel macho about ur rating, u're in for a bit of a shock when u actually have to be as skillful as ur rating says in order to play set.

fh

hades27
Mortal
posted 24 April 2003 10:31 AM EDT (US)     67 / 109       
Bringing in Villies wont slow down there econ much, you have to sacrifice one Hippokon for 3 villies, which will kill 10 monkeys in no time, Duh.

Zeus is not the worst god, duh.


- BITE MY SHINY METAL ASS!!
ESO: IamHades27

Winner of the least favorite forumer AoMH's award 2002!!
RASKAYU
Mortal
posted 24 April 2003 11:18 AM EDT (US)     68 / 109       
If you go to legion clan forum youll see how to get rid of egyptians monks trying to convert animals...
http://www.legion.kz/forum/showthread.php?s=f1b7e0a7c04a42ffe5533cfd78e0c11d&threadid=6011
hades27
Mortal
posted 24 April 2003 11:42 AM EDT (US)     69 / 109       
Hey thanks for the great post RASKAYU.

Quoted from the link above

"U may already know this but just incase u dont, if u want to stop the priest converting animals dont attack the priest with ur kataskope/ursfalk as by the time he has half his hp left the animal will be converted and will protect him. Hit the animal(s) that he is converting once and run before it attacks u . Once an animal has been attacked it cant be converted and if the priest tries to convert this animal it will attack him and kill him. this is a very easy way to stop set massing a big animal army in archaic."

So maybe Set CAN be stopped, although I have not tried this yet, anybody want to try it with me? If so, Set may not be too much of a killer after all .


- BITE MY SHINY METAL ASS!!
ESO: IamHades27

Winner of the least favorite forumer AoMH's award 2002!!
WK_WOLF
Mortal
posted 24 April 2003 11:43 AM EDT (US)     70 / 109       

Quote:

Two of the three you mentioned only play Loki. The Loki rush is a well known (recently reduced) exploit that they have obviously been using to there advantage (hence on playing with Loki to bolster there ratings). Now along comes set who is a good counter to their fav tactic, of course they are going to say he is overpowered.

I don't just play Loki. Currently Odin is the God that i use the most. I've gotten 1900+ with Odin, Loki, Thor, Poseidon and Set. I don't just take advantage of "a well known exploit". My worst Culture is egyptians, not because they are weak, only because they do not suit my playing style. I've gotten 1860+ with Isis but never got over 1900. I decided to try set to see it from the other perspective and i got 1900 right away with 100% wins(on a secret account, so don`t check my stats). It was really easy as i wasn`t even trying hard. You can win with a weak economy because half your army is free. Now for someone who is already good with egyptians will have no challenge getting 2k with Set. Any isis or Ra player who switch to Set will most likely gain a 100 to 150 rating increase in a day or 2.
Set just has too much oing for him with his animal bonus. ES already said that they are patching him next so why are we still talking about it? Set is overpowered.


-eX_WOLF
hades27
Mortal
posted 24 April 2003 11:56 AM EDT (US)     71 / 109       
"I decided to try set to see it from the other perspective and I got 1900 right away with 100% wins(on a secret account, so don`t check my stats). It was really easy as i wasn`t even trying hard."

But geesh Wolf, we at least need proof for you to post something like that ><. So that cant be true, if we dont have proof, you see?

Yes Set is overpowered(?)><


- BITE MY SHINY METAL ASS!!
ESO: IamHades27

Winner of the least favorite forumer AoMH's award 2002!!
WK_WOLF
Mortal
posted 24 April 2003 12:01 PM EDT (US)     72 / 109       
Ask Aetius, he's knows my name and he's seen my stats. I went straight to 1920 100% wins. It's the truth.

-eX_WOLF
hades27
Mortal
posted 24 April 2003 02:00 PM EDT (US)     73 / 109       
I can ask Aetius, but it still does not prove anything. I need to see it for myself. Or you can just create a new account (non-secret) and show us, use Set and get to 1900++ with a 100 percent win ratio. Anyhow, Set is overpowered ><

- BITE MY SHINY METAL ASS!!
ESO: IamHades27

Winner of the least favorite forumer AoMH's award 2002!!
LKS_Plutonium
Mortal
posted 24 April 2003 02:07 PM EDT (US)     74 / 109       
Talked to 'Nide today. It's final exam seaaasooon. He's pretty piszed off.

Ah, with regards to the whole idea about 'markets'; he just repeated what he said before. Basically, IF you believe in the capitalistic market, you're forced to accept the fact that the most powerful civ will be overplayed. I mean, you're assuming people are rational, and they'll gravitate towards the civ that gives them the greatest bang for their skill level.

Now, if you were going to go along with that line of reasoning, which, he gueses that most Euros and North Americans will, you'd be forced to accept then that since people are getting more bang for their buck with a given CIV, you're going to see more and more gravitate towards it; which means that you're forced to accept that it's overpowered. Ie. (A 1650 Odin player is inferior to a 1700 Ra player, for instance.)

Then he started rattling off things that he saw from recorded games at MFO. 'Nides a bastard. He watches tons upon tons of games and rubs it in my face. He tells me, based on his hunches and what he's experienced, that a 1750 ISIS would be a 1850 Odin, that a 1850 SET would be a 1950 Odin, that a 1750 Loki would be a 1700 Thor, and that a 1700 Thor would be a 1675 Odin...and he just rattled on and on. He was pretty loose about it, but he implied that skill does matter. Because each civ has different strenghts and weaknesses, you'd see 'the market' react accordingly.

He went on to blabber about AOC, which I thought was farking hillarious. He told me that a Byzantine player would often get rushed right off the map in 1.02 by a Mongol player, mainly because the two civs played very differently. He said that there tended to be this correlation between ROOKISM and EXPERTISM. An Expert always chose 'Rushing' Civs, and a Rook chose 'Wall up and boom' civs.

He then told me that the difference is quite marked in AOM. In the begining, he chose Odin, because it was the fastest rushing civ. When ppl started doing that Loki bug lameness, he tried out ISIS for a change; to learn how to go defensive. He tells me that SET is a special breed because not many ppl are very familiar with Classical age warfare.

He tells me that most ppl, the 'Trenders', only really know how to FH, and the only civ they know how to rush with now are Loki and sometimes Thor. They must feel really confindent with RC whoring.

So, if you accept free market principles, you're forced to accept that the more overplayed a civ is, the more overpowered it must be. The logic that the more overplayed a civ is, the more experts there must be, must also be proportional, doesn't follow. The best example is with SET.

He tells me that he has a very hard time at 2:00 moving 3 monkays around, plus a lion or a phant, plus micro'ing his econ. Most build orders for Odin and even Thor...and especially the greek builds, are very much dumbed down for the average player...basically, they just have to micro a scout, and sometimes they have to watch the Ulfie.

Set requires a lot more skill than Odin, which means that it doesn't return as big 'bang' for your skill buck. You'd have to play 35 games to achieve a 1725 rating with SET, but the same person would prolly only have to play 15 games to reach the same skill level with Odin. However,the capacity to get beyond 1725 with SET is that much higher, because of the ability to push the enveloppe further and benefit from your micro'ing skills that much more.

He told me to go away at that point cos he has a killer Spanish final tommorow. So I went away. He just added that there was a lot more theory behind his reasoning, but most of it would be lost on the majority of the AOMH crowd. Which is fine, because the 3 or 4 ppl who 'get it' is well worth the fuss.

ColdWind2Valhala
Mortal
posted 24 April 2003 02:07 PM EDT (US)     75 / 109       
Well I have a "secret account" that is 2k+ with post patch RA - 100% win ratio, but don't check for my stats they are secret.

lol

JetSolo
Mortal
posted 24 April 2003 02:08 PM EDT (US)     76 / 109       
Sets bonus doesn't make him "overpowered". If anything Sets poor economy and tough micro-manage skills make up for any animals Set can convert.

The lack of adaptness in players can be seen across the boards on .rec games. Even at the 2000+ levels - players will stick and play as if it was a regular civilization.

The mistakes are huge and cost the player the game. You have to remember that Set is very unique, his strategy is very unique, so a counter must be very unique.

What better way to counter animals attacking your dock by placing your woodies right by the dock?

What better way to counter an animal rush than to use "Villagers". I've already thought of a way to counter any animal rush (Yes, I do have Norse Accounts and played them extensively.) I will not post "my" way of countering a animal rush - except that Set will be very surprised.

*Hint* it deals with you advancing a bit later then usual to classical.

Well, the article that LKS_Cyanide should have shown the

"Set OMG NERF NERFF LAZERSS OH NO"

People, that Set isn't played as extensively as people clain. This article was written backed up by facts and the simple truth is that.

Top players play with "Odin, Loki"

Hence, "Norse".

Take a look at the main article for that information.

hades27
Mortal
posted 24 April 2003 02:18 PM EDT (US)     77 / 109       
I think RCs should get nerfed. ><

- BITE MY SHINY METAL ASS!!
ESO: IamHades27

Winner of the least favorite forumer AoMH's award 2002!!
CSGaidin
Mortal
posted 24 April 2003 03:20 PM EDT (US)     78 / 109       

Quoted from LKS_Plutonium:

He tells me, based on his hunches and what he's experienced, that a 1750 ISIS would be a 1850 Odin, that a 1850 SET would be a 1950 Odin, that a 1750 Loki would be a 1700 Thor, and that a 1700 Thor would be a 1675 Odin

Set requires a lot more skill than Odin, which means that it doesn't return as big 'bang' for your skill buck. You'd have to play 35 games to achieve a 1725 rating with SET, but the same person would prolly only have to play 15 games to reach the same skill level with Odin. However,the capacity to get beyond 1725 with SET is that much higher, because of the ability to push the enveloppe further and benefit from your micro'ing skills that much more.

So, once you've got micro skills down, Set becomes overpowered? I see your logic on overplayed=overpowered, but I'm still deciding if I agree or not. My indecision basically hangs on the inclusion of personal skill. I agree newer players are going to have a harder time with Set than with any other civ. I'm just not sure if that holds true once a basic skill set is developed. After that it becomes practice.

Also the current stats, as reported in real time at www.resort.net.tc , say the following.
Weekly Stats
Rank Player Games Fav. God (Played) Win/Loss Last Game Rating
1 Arn_Magnusson 8 ISIS (88 %) 100 % 24.04.03 - 18:41 1723.41
2 sub7_sanka_ 16 ODIN (100 %) 62.5 % 24.04.03 - 18:41 1711.05
3 Andy_Dusfrene 12 SET (100 %) 100 % 24.04.03 - 16:27 1710.29
4 Olympus_Gizmo 8 SET (100 %) 100 % 24.04.03 - 10:56 1706.83
5 NariPrincess 10 LOKI (80 %) 100 % 24.04.03 - 19:42 1703.11
6 Perfect_Bob 11 ODIN (100 %) 100 % 24.04.03 - 17:51 1702.04
7 JN_Dawni 15 SET (100 %) 86.67 % 24.04.03 - 13:37 1702
8 ChAoX_rulez 9 ODIN (100 %) 100 % 24.04.03 - 14:54 1700.23
9 Good_begets_Good 12 SET (33 %) 91.67 % 24.04.03 - 01:17 1698.67
10 IamSky_tw 10 POSEIDON (90 %) 100 % 24.04.03 - 03:37 1698.52
11 Anubis_AOMDE_Pro 8 SET (100 %) 87.5 % 24.04.03 - 19:10 1697.95
12 Pe4Ce 8 ZEUS (100 %) 100 % 23.04.03 - 16:52 1696.81
13 nex_Rahti 6 SET (100 %) 100 % 24.04.03 - 12:30 1695.71
14 NW_seLen 9 ISIS (100 %) 88.89 % 24.04.03 - 17:31 1694.94
15 KOTERU 12 SET (100 %) 66.67 % 24.04.03 - 17:33 1694.39
16 Segane 9 LOKI (100 %) 100 % 23.04.03 - 12:52 1692.57
17 IamCia_tw 6 SET (100 %) 100 % 24.04.03 - 10:38 1691.65
18 TobyTobyToby 10 ISIS (100 %) 80 % 24.04.03 - 20:08 1691.23
19 Shun_Di 10 LOKI (50 %) 90 % 23.04.03 - 18:23 1690.37
20 NoRsE_RuShEr_ 7 LOKI (71 %) 100 % 24.04.03 - 11:26 1690.16

Monthly Stats
Rank Player Games Fav. God (Played) Win/Loss Last Game Rating
1 tOrMeNtIuM 38 LOKI (45 %) 84.21 % 24.04.03 - 20:08 1857.86
2 L_Clan_ShaDowZ 25 LOKI (88 %) 96 % 16.04.03 - 22:10 1845.94
3 KOTERU 18 SET (100 %) 66.67 % 24.04.03 - 17:33 1840
4 tounfa 41 LOKI (66 %) 80.49 % 21.04.03 - 18:10 1834.05
5 speedalex 24 THOR (83 %) 95.83 % 21.04.03 - 18:10 1831.08
6 Tombo 82 POSEIDON (94 %) 54.88 % 23.04.03 - 09:09 1826.4
7 cheez_snap 39 SET (100 %) 82.05 % 24.04.03 - 13:46 1824.26
8 dita_ 24 THOR (71 %) 91.67 % 22.04.03 - 21:32 1821.38
9 L_Clan_Nagash 34 SET (21 %) 82.35 % 22.04.03 - 22:32 1820.53
10 Good_begets_Good 20 SET (20 %) 95 % 24.04.03 - 01:17 1820.16
11 Zg_Basics 40 RA (30 %) 70 % 24.04.03 - 15:48 1816.43
12 Lord_KroaK 27 SET (56 %) 88.89 % 24.04.03 - 20:08 1814.1
13 arki_tyame 77 ISIS (100 %) 63.64 % 19.04.03 - 05:25 1813.69
14 Vni_SalSkA_ 31 LOKI (32 %) 83.87 % 22.04.03 - 17:27 1812.88
15 IamWalker 42 SET (71 %) 66.67 % 22.04.03 - 19:20 1811.04
16 urmombozi 113 SET (100 %) 57.52 % 21.04.03 - 04:43 1810.9
17 Co_Co_Can_Co_Co 23 SET (100 %) 100 % 19.04.03 - 00:17 1810.41
18 FOPT_Trial273 16 LOKI (100 %) 100 % 21.04.03 - 15:14 1809.42
19 skoal_dips_ 20 LOKI (100 %) 95 % 24.04.03 - 19:48 1808.61
20 HarLeQN 90 ODIN (41 %) 56.67 % 22.04.03 - 23:48 1808.42

***Edit***
Monthly Totals
Set - 8
Loki - 6
Thor - 2
Poseidon - 1
Odin - 1
Isis - 1
Ra - 1

Gotta give some props to the Ra player.

Also, is there some place to get a trendline of a person's rating history? I could've sworn I saw that somewhere.


Ever had one of those weeks where making a smurf account would instantly increase your rating?

[This message has been edited by CSGaidin (edited 04-24-2003 @ 03:55 PM).]

Pascal9872
Mortal
posted 24 April 2003 04:11 PM EDT (US)     79 / 109       
Looking to see who is played the most is one thing that you would want to look at to determine who is overpowered however. Odin has a lot of features that would attract a noob.
-Faster Food gathering
-Great Hunt so you can multiply your 'safe' food.
-Ravens so you can fly over and burn your oponents trees down.

Set is a little more difficult to learn than Odin and thus that keeps away the noobie crowd, which let's face it is a large percentage of the online market. Players with even a little bit of micro skills (1700-1750+) can use Set and begin to exploit his overpoweredness. As you get further up and your ability to micro gets better then the overpoweredness of Set increases.


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Pascal9872
Mortal
posted 24 April 2003 04:14 PM EDT (US)     80 / 109       
Nice Stats Gaiden, seems to be a lot more Sets up there than Odins.

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A monk I need a monk.
I thought therefore I was.
CSGaidin
Mortal
posted 24 April 2003 04:40 PM EDT (US)     81 / 109       
The thing that bothers me is where are the 1900+ players? The top rated player for the month is at 1857!
The other thing is that, for the most part, they all have insanely high win percentages.

Ever had one of those weeks where making a smurf account would instantly increase your rating?

[This message has been edited by CSGaidin (edited 04-24-2003 @ 04:43 PM).]

Toastabal
Mortal
posted 24 April 2003 05:30 PM EDT (US)     82 / 109       
I believe the monthly stats just takes the games you've played that month and calculate the rating you would've had if that was all you played, hence the ratings are lower on that list than what they're actually supposed to be.
Erags
Mortal
posted 24 April 2003 09:54 PM EDT (US)     83 / 109       
I'm sorry jetsolo...I know you don't like being flamed, and I'm sure i'll probably get into trouble with mods, but I can't resist this (BTW several of these things are irrelevant, since I got this from the SC forums) I'm sorry jetsolo...these don't ALL apply to you but..

Dear:

[x] Clueless Newbie
[x] Loser
[ ] AOLer
[ ] 12 year old
[ ] Troll
[ ] Pervert
[ ] Geek
[ ] Spammer
[ ] Wannabe
[ ] A*skisser
[ ] l337 d00d
[ ] Flamer
[x] Whiner
[ ] Other:

You Are Being Flamed Because

[ ] You posted a .99999... = 1 thread
[ ] You posted a Release Date thread
[ ] You posted a Patch thread
[ ] You posted a PC vs Mac thread
[ ] You posted a System Specifications thread
[ ] You posted a (InsertRandomRPG) vs DiabloII thread
[ ] You posted a Starcraft vs War3 thread
[x] You posted a big slobbery kiss on Blizzard's *** (ES)
[ ] You posted a "Where is Starcraft II" thread
[ ] You posted a (War3/WoW) vs DiabloII thread
[ ] You continued a long, stupid thread
[ ] You committed crimes against pork biproducts
[ ] You posted a "YOU ALL SUCK" message
[ ] You haven't read the FAQ
[ ] You don't know which forum to post in
[x] You just plain suck
[ ] You posted false information
[x] You posted something totally uninteresting
[ ] You doubleposted
[ ] YOU POSTED A MESSAGE ALL WRITTEN IN CAPS
[ ] You posted racist crap
[ ] I don't like your tone of voice
[ ] You are not civilized enough to post in these forums
[ ] Yuo mispeled evry sengle wurd.

In Punishment, You Must:

[ ] Give up your AOL Internet account
[x] STFU & GTFO
[x] Jump into a bathtub while holding your monitor
[ ] Actually post something relevant
[ ] Read the f****** FAQ
[ ] Be Pat Buchanan's love slave
[ ] Call Bush and inform him he sucks
[ ] Go to your room with no supper
[ ] Apologize to everybody on this forum
[ ] Go stand in the middle of a Highway
[x] Recite the Greek alphabet backwards
[ ] Take a bath in bleach
[ ] Drink out of a spitoon
[ ] All of the above

In Closing, I'd Like to Say:

[ ] Blow me
[ ] Get a life
[x] Never post again
[ ] I pity your dog
[ ] Go to hell
[x] Your IQ must be 7
[ ] Take your s*** somewhere else
[x] STFU & GTFO
[x] Learn to post or f*** off
[ ] Go jump into some industrial equipment
[ ] All of the above

Pascal9872
Mortal
posted 24 April 2003 11:47 PM EDT (US)     84 / 109       
ROTFLO. That was hilarious. Let me just add.

[X] Go jump into some industrial equipment


Guide to Debugging RMS
Download my RMS here
Help improve RMS reviewing here
A monk I need a monk.
I thought therefore I was.
WK_WOLF
Mortal
posted 24 April 2003 11:58 PM EDT (US)     85 / 109       
Hades27,

Alright don't believe me if u don't want to. Many people make claims that they got 1900+ with everyciv and blabla, why are u giving me a hard time with this? It's a secret account for a reason, and i don't feel like making another from 1600. The fact is i did it, and i did lose once i got 1920 around, but i'm a set noob. I can probably get 1950 or higher but after every game people complain and i don't want to promote set anymore. With isis the top i got was 1860 and i worked a lot harder. This is me, thats bad with egyptians, not that isis is weak or anything(altho Ra is). I'm simply trying to explain to Jetsolo my point. Jetsolo is so dense. He doesn't listen to anyone. He keeps going back to his 1 argument that players cant adapt. Which is completly false because i play 100% different vs set.


-eX_WOLF
GOTD_FireCobra
Mortal
posted 25 April 2003 00:20 AM EDT (US)     86 / 109       
Jet, just by looking up stats stuff is not going to prove which god is overpowered.

You fail to realize that not everyone is going to play egyptians of course, because some of us don't like them. (For various reasons, sure, but we still don't care.)

You must also realize that ES is NOT going to remove the norse from the game just because you whine about them so much.

I personaly have not had a problem fightning Set, because I use Thor. (You got a problem with that? Tough.) The only civ. that gives me grief is greek, because they are hard to counter with norse now.

Azarath
Mortal
posted 25 April 2003 01:16 AM EDT (US)     87 / 109       
Id like to start off with I hate Jetsolo and your arguments dont make sense.

With that aside. No one uses monkies on vilagers. They have 41 pierce, you use them to take out heavy cav and anything that uses hack damage on you. Monkies cost favor, for eggies that means you dont do anything. THEY ONLY COST 3!!!

Use 3 monkies on 1 stray villie you get 3 monkies back. If you fight two vilies you may lose 2 or 3 monkies he still loses 100-150food plus 30-45 secs off his TC. Almost a minute cause a set player used 9 favor on you.

The real problem is that the Set scout/free animal/free army/rush/ or Fast heroic has no counter. He's always got something to defend against. The Ra FH is weak against a good rush or coutner FH. The Loki Hersir rush is weak against anti-infaltry units. The odin Jarl/TA takes HUGE amoutns of resources and doesn't come into play until 14 minutes in to the game plenty of time to attack early (This is why loki is so strong vs Odin cause Loki hits early).

The fact is every strat has a counter. The Set one does not have an economoical answer period along with the fact that he can bring to the board the BEST STATS ANIMAL army in the game THE FASTEST and it COSTS HIM NOTHING. When can you counter set? archaic? with what? Classical? he's got the army out. Heroic? He's hit heroic at 10min with 115 full pop bulding new TC's with his free army guarding everything. Mythic? Mythic? he's almost like friggin Isis.

Where and when are you supposed to beat set? He's just got too many good things that build on each other cumunitatively making him unstoppable in most situations.

People complaling about his econo, he's got the same econo as RA but with with Better GPs that will lay waste to the opposing army wasting any minor economic advantage.

FACT: If you dont see any problems with Set, You are using him. I've yet to see a person who majorily play another civ defend set as being well-balanced.

hades27
Mortal
posted 25 April 2003 08:00 AM EDT (US)     88 / 109       
"The real problem is that the Set scout/free animal/free army/rush/ or Fast heroic has no counter. He's always got something to defend against."

If Set rushes someone, his animals will die to TC, Guarded Towers, + Villie arrows. Villies ARE counter to Animals, plus anything that does Pierce damage.

"People complaling about his econo, he's got the same econo as RA."

Hes only got the same economy as RA ONLY if RA players do not use the PRIEST EMPOWERMENT.

EDIT: Wolf, I just thought that, that was a bad example you made about Set being overpowered, because there is no proof there at all, although he is overpowered. I just wish ES would patch him already so I can still continue to kick butt with him without being called Set-Wh__e or Lamer >< What losers

Even I wasnt that son of a ___ch when I was complaining about RA FH and when I face them online.


- BITE MY SHINY METAL ASS!!
ESO: IamHades27

Winner of the least favorite forumer AoMH's award 2002!!

[This message has been edited by hades27 (edited 04-25-2003 @ 08:16 AM).]

Kittina
Mortal
posted 25 April 2003 08:45 AM EDT (US)     89 / 109       
Well, for now Hades hon, you're a Set Wh**e.
But after that patch, you know you're a Set Supa Puppetmasta!
~.^

Yes, I still think Set is overpowered.
But asides from the hardcore Ra overnerf, I trust Es' patches to balance things out.

-Kitty


With wisdom comes knowedge, but wisdom does not come with knowledge
STFU Jetsolo
The Golden Arm
Mortal
posted 25 April 2003 10:26 AM EDT (US)     90 / 109       
Does no1 watch these rec games provided?
Am i alone in seeing these higher players just totally own there opponent?
And i keep asking these people how you could possibly beat these guys, and no1 has answered me?


ESO =AoA_Disarm_,pR150n_53X
Other Nicks IamDisarm ,When_Apes_Attack ,Run_With_Scissors ,Testament ,The_Golden_Arm ,
Have no way as way
Have no limitations as limitations - Bruce Lee

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