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Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy and General Discussion » A Guide to the Cyclops
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Topic Subject:A Guide to the Cyclops
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ManticoreKiller
Mortal
posted 06 March 2004 02:25 AM EDT (US)         
A Guide to the Cyclops

by ManticoreKiller

I think that this was prbably the first MU I used in AOM in the vanilla spc and I remembered being very pleased with it. Big, slow one eyed dudes with a club. Those familiar with pro wrestling (WWE) may see the resemblance this unit has to 'Kane'. They even have the same chokeslam.

The Unit


Cyclops (Greek Classical age MU)
Melee MU with superb capability against buildings.
Available to players who choose Ares (Posiedon/Hades)
Can be upgraded to the Elder Cyclops by researching the Will of Kronos 200F 25Fv

Stats (Stats of the Upgraded unit with a breakup of how the upgrade affects the original unit ):
HP: 650
Hack Damage: 22 (15 + 7)
Crush Damage: 24 (12 + 12)
Hack Armour: 50%
Pierce Armour: 50%
Crush Armour: 80%
Speed: 3.50

Special: Picks up any human unit (even elephants) and throws them a distance (between 8 and 14 metres) causing splash damage where they land. The amount of splash damage depends on the unit's hitpoints (well done ES!). Values I got were between 37 hack damage (for a hoplite) to over 70 (for a war elephant). If the poor unit's corpse bounces (ugh!), the damage is multiplied per bounce. Typically, they bouce 2-3 times. This is very inconsistent but inconsistency is this unit's middle name as we shall see later. Recharges in 20 seconds. Some important points to note are-

1. The throw is in the direction it was pointing when it lifted the unit up.
2. It takes 5 seconds to act. The cyclops takes damage while it is up.
3. The range has nothing to do with the size of the unit. It throws a War Elephant farther than an Arcus! (Really!!)
4. The AI works such that without any micro, a cyclops will follow a pre-targeted unit in a group round and round until it is able to 'chokeslam' it taking damage all the time without retaliating. This causes the infamous pathing problems it has given its slow speed.
5. The Area of effect of the special is only a small circular area around each place the flying corpse bounces.
6. Buildings and heroes do not get damaged.
7. MUs take 3x damage if hit by a flying corpse even though they cannot be lifted by the Cyclops
8. Whew! this is confusing. If someone has more light to shed on this please do so.

Bonuses: 3x damage vs other MUs

Cost: 250F 20Fv 4Pop

Looking at the stats you might be forgiven for thinking this was a heroic age MU. It isn't though it acts and costs as much as one. I have always believed that food is the most important resource in calssical so it is unlikely that you would be using large groups of cyclopes. The upgrade is hideously expensive but is huge in terms of the amount it improves this unit. I did not mention that it also reduces training time by 25% (Not as if you can afford to queue them up like that). What I want to know is- where in all of Erebus do you get 25 Favour in classical without wrecking your econ??? In absolute terms as a unit, this looks good even if you compare it to the heroic and even some Mythic MUs. It's also really, really slow. Let's see how it does in the tests. For the tests, I have usually considered an unupgraded Cyclops because of a few factors that make using the upgrade in classical next to impossible. Firstly, the Cyclops is so expensive in all aspects that getting the upgrade could be suicidal by delaying your heroic age. Second, the upgrade also costs food- usually, upgrades cost a different resource but this one adds to the food cost of an already expensive unit. It just isn't viable. The only scenario I see a need for this upgrade is if you choose Apollo in heroic and need a big, poweful meatshield for your Toxotes and Manticores. In all other cases, you get all round better MUs in heroic which will do the same job much better.

Tests
Note: all human units have full classical upgrades (Medium All and Copper All)

1. vs Infantry - 1 Zeus Hoplite (126hp 10 hack damage 41% hack armour)l:
First of all, the Cyclops normal attack takes two forms. First, it has an underarm swing of the club which it does about once a second. Second, it has an overhead swat which it does once every two seconds. Which shot it uses is random and though they might do varying amounts of damage per shot, they will do the same damage on a per second basis. To cut a long story short the cyclops kills the hoplite in 15 seconds finishing with 570hp.
For an Elder Cyclops, the story is the same- only shorter. It takes just 10 seconds to kill the hoplite with 600 hp left.
I disabled the special for this test.

2. vs a Town Center (2800 hp)
In this test, I hope to show you that a Cyclops can be used as a rush unit to take down a town center (undefended). I used two normal cyclopes (unupgraded) costing a total of 500 Food, 40 Favour and 8 pop slots. You can take down the town center unassisted in 95 seconds losing one cyclops in the process. In comparison, using one Elder Cyclops (costing with the upgrade- 450 Food 45 Favour and 4 pop slots) only results in leaving the TC with 1600 hp left. This could be a viable strat for an early greek rush particularly for Hades players using a supporting force of toxotes to keep heroes away. You could advance to classical early and build an academy (or a stable for poseidon players) and an archery range. Build another cyclops to add to the free one you get with the age advancement. Rush your opponents base using your archers to keep away heroes and take down the TC with your cyclops. Cast pestilence on his rax/LH only well into your attack so that he loses any units he queued. Use your hoplites or hippkons to attack his/her houses and rax. Once the TC goes down move your toxotes to take out those villies that are left and use your remaining cyclops to take out his remaining buildings. It's just a suggestion but I think it should work.

3. vs a Mountain Giant (1200 hp 20 hack damage 25 crush damage 50% hack armour x1.5 bonus vs MUs):
I decided on the Mountain Giant to demonstrate how this unit rules vs MUs. Not only does the Cyclops get an uber bonus but it also does a huge amount of crush damage which MUs are more suceptible to. The MG is almost like a bigger, badder Cyclops. True, it does not have the Cyclops' bonus against MUs but it still does reasonably well. I used an Elder Cyclops for this one coz the MG is a heroic MU. The Elder Cyclops does between 39-51 damage to the MG per shot (two attack styles). The MG does between 15-26 damage per shot (two attack styles as well- the kick and the swat). Net result- the Elder Cyclops kills the Mountain Giant in 42 seconds with 75 hitpoints left. In general-

The Elder Cyclops beats all classical MUs except the Bull Minotaur (it's special does 180 hp worth of damage to the Cyclops)
The Elder Cyclops aso beats the following fully upgraded Heroic MUs-
Nemean Lion
Mountain Giant
Manticore
Satyr
Petsuchos
Battle Boar
It loses to all other MUs not mentioned

What about the normal Cyclops- more likely to get into a fight with a classical MU
It beats all classical MUs except the Bull Minotaur and the Giant Killer Einherjar (without its delaying horn blast)

The Cylops is affected by all special attacks including the Minotaur's throw, the Battle Boar's spinning kick and the Hekagigantes' ground pound which usually do not effect other MUs.

4. 3 Cyclopes vs 10 Medium Hoplites (126 hp, 10 hack damge, 41% hack armour) supported by 5 Medium Toxotes:
You must be thinking that I just lost my marbles. This is no contest- the Cyclopes will win. Well, they didn't. The pathing is so bad that two of the three spent almost 15 seconds going round in circles after particular units. In the end the three Cyclopes were all killed with 5 hoplites and 2 toxotes surviving in 65 seconds

These tests prove that the Cyclops is an exceptional combat unit which has a few problems with pathing without which it would be even better. While it all looks very impressive, in all honesty, I found the cyclops a very slow unit, almost too slow to be useful. Ranged units would be able to eat them alive by adopting a shoot- move- shoot strategy.

Suggested Usgae

The early rush described earlier can be sucessfully used vs all civs except the Egyptians.

vs Greeks- Great to use a few against the greeks' expensive military buildings in classical. If properly microed, the special can also take out key greek units like hippkons and the UUs later on.

vs Norse- Not advisable because of the Hersirs you are sure to encounter. Still, with weak buildings, its a better choice than the Minotaur. One of the few classical MUs with no problems agianst Jarls.

vs Egyptians- Rather not. With their priests and pharohs, they can take out a Cyclops in no time at all. If you really want to use it, this unit is a successful counter to the war elephant but that's only post heroic.

vs Atlanteans- Weak Attie buildings makes this a temptation to use this against them. The only problem is that this unit is very easy to kill with Turmae which can shoot- move- shoot with no problem as the Cyclops is one of the slowest units in the game. This is even more pronounced when valor is used on the Turmae.

Conclusion
First of all, let's look at the overall Ares package. The techs are very useful and the GP can be a superb foil for an attack. This is a great unit per se. The only problem is that it can be prohibitively expensive to use in Classical. Poseidon players are definitely better off going in for Hermes who has a better overall package with an all important cavalry tech. Hades players however, would do well to go with Ares as Athena is a weak package overall, the excellent Minotaur notwithstanding. Hades players can also use the upgraded Cyclops as a weaker substitue for the Hydra in heroic given they can't take Dionosyus. However if Hades players want to take Aphrodite in heroic, the Nemean Lion is a better all round unit so the Cyclops would not be much use in that case.
After that long technical discourse- let's come to the unit. There is no denying that as a unit- it's awesome. It has a few minor weaknesses, but nothing to deflect from its near invincibility one on one. The problem is that it is so costly that a player is unlikely to have more than two or three Cyclopes until the later ages where it will be largely outmatched by stonger later age MUs. As a unit, I will admit that I stuggled to find a use for this one. True, it is great against buildings but so are almost all the Greek MUs. In addition, both Hades and Posiedon get great building killing UUs in Mythic which add to the already formidable Petrobulos and Heliopolis seige capability. What is worse is that the Cyclops quickly becomes redundant unless you are a Hades player planning to take Apollo. Even by Heroic standards, it is a very expensive unit. The only viable strategy I could think of for the Cyclops is to use it for a rush in classical which I have described before. Barring that, I cannot repeat enough how costly this is for a Classical MU. Food is the most important resource in Classical and Heroic. This is because not only do you need it for an age up, but you also need a lot of it for infantry and cavalry. Most important of all is the fact that you need 50 food for a villager. It is my conclusion that using more than a couple of Cyclopes in classical will not only set you back for your Heroic advancement, but it will also wreck your economy by denying you the food for more villies as well as weakening your human unit force which is quite frankly, still the most important component of any army. In short, the Cyclops is a self contradictory unit. It is awesome, but is impossible to use when it really has its edge. It has one of the best upgrades in the game, but it is almost impossible to research it when it counts. It is a great unit, but it is not something anyone can use to its full potential.

Right- now vote for Norse MU you want to see in a guide next week except the ones already covered. Remember NORSE MUs ONLY next week-


Einherjar
Troll
Valkyrie
Battle Boar
Frost Giant
Mountain Giant
Kraken
Fenris Wolf
Fire Giant
Jormund Elver

Try making your choice in bold. You can do this by enclosing the text with tags-


[b]Text[/b]
AuthorReplies:
Flank
Mortal
posted 06 March 2004 02:37 PM EDT (US)     31 / 85       
erm, if you are going to use 3 elder cyclops and not micro them you should expect to lose. I think the cyclops is a great MU and I think it is ynfair to test them without micro. If you are going to let units walk around and not fight then they will die. if you are going to use instant-kill specials on weaker units then you are just dumb.
SaveFerris
Mortal
posted 06 March 2004 02:55 PM EDT (US)     32 / 85       
battleboar
Orion_SonY
Mortal
(id: Blackhawk0099)
posted 06 March 2004 03:10 PM EDT (US)     33 / 85       
Einhrjar

I'm Spicy
White_Wizard
Mortal
posted 06 March 2004 03:13 PM EDT (US)     34 / 85       
I have been waiting for this one. Go Valkyrie!

ESO name: WND_WiseWizard
Proud to be a Wanderer
Check out our clan at our AoM: TT home page.
VAL_The_Speaker
Mortal
posted 06 March 2004 04:19 PM EDT (US)     35 / 85       
valkyrie plz
id also like to see how much the upgrade of the valk improves them, there are three so...

(-speaker-)
:unsure:
Shrapnel
Mortal
posted 06 March 2004 05:44 PM EDT (US)     36 / 85       
cyclops are great! already knew they owned but i was supprised at the lost of the MG.
i was gonna vote Fire Giant but many ppl picked valkarieso i wanna join them

Sane and the Second Army's Coming
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BSR
Mortal
posted 06 March 2004 07:58 PM EDT (US)     37 / 85       
I vote Fenris Wolf, even though the Valkyrie is obviously winning. I'd actually like to see a chart of how much their attack and speed increases as you add more and more wolves, how fast they can possibly get with speed mods (faster than Valks), and so on. It would be a complicated guide, but an interesting one.
Shiva
HG Alumnus
posted 06 March 2004 08:13 PM EDT (US)     38 / 85       
It would have been, if he had done it for Vanilla. In the last patch, their speed has been reduced to 15% with packs. Meaning, that if you have like 9 of them..they'd only go 5-6 speed. Previously, back in the day..they could go up to 8-9 speed (fastest ever)

Their attacks ~40-44 with 9-10 of 'em


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jschwartz173
Mortal
posted 06 March 2004 11:46 PM EDT (US)     39 / 85       

Quoted from NIB:

Except all poseidon players go hermes. So only hades players get them.


Except for me I guess.
good guide
Valkyrie

Member of the Orion Clan
Orion_Schwartz
Phat Fox
Mortal
posted 07 March 2004 00:39 AM EDT (US)     40 / 85       
Valkyrie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AOM Titan Info.
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ESO : Blunt_69 aka CV_KiNGPiN
ZeusThorOranos
Mortal
posted 07 March 2004 01:04 AM EDT (US)     41 / 85       
yey Valkyrie is leading ( i think )
Liquid_
Mortal
posted 07 March 2004 01:36 AM EDT (US)     42 / 85       
Valkarieb-e-a-u-tiful guide manticore.
ManticoreKiller
Mortal
posted 07 March 2004 01:42 AM EDT (US)     43 / 85       
Current Standings-

Einherjar 3
Troll 3
Valkyrie 18
Battle Boar 2
Frost Giant
Mountain Giant
Kraken
Fenris Wolf 3
Fire Giant 4
Jormund Elver 2

ArtemisChimera- Great! uve come out of ur sabattical. Sure, if u want we can do alternate weeks. Still, u don't have to wait for me buddy! Why not tommorrow? Personally- I really want to see u do the Argus asap.

Shiva- The Fenris Wolf maxes out attack and speed in groups of 8. If u use more, u actually increase the distance between the memebers of the pack and weaken their attack and speed. U can maximize all bonuses using a box formation. I really don't think 5-6 speed is that bad. U can negate the effect of the 1.02 patch using the Thuriasz Rune (Bragi). I actually don't think they suck at all. No other MU does 45 hack damage and costs just 3 pop slots.

A lot of u guyz seem to think I undersold the Cyclops. That's not true. In fact, I did say that they are awesome as a unit but are unusable effectively due to economic reasons.

Blitzkrieg go
Mortal
posted 07 March 2004 04:22 AM EDT (US)     44 / 85       
valkerie
elite_greek69
Mortal
posted 07 March 2004 04:26 AM EDT (US)     45 / 85       
once again great guide. very interesting to read.
ive always liked the cyclops.
next i would like..
Frost Giant
Frost Giant
Frost Giant

-----MOLON LAVE-----
syzygi_II
Mortal
posted 07 March 2004 06:56 AM EDT (US)     46 / 85       
i think the [bold] fire giant [/bold] would be good especially after the crush damage nerf
syzygi_II
Mortal
posted 07 March 2004 06:57 AM EDT (US)     47 / 85       
i mean fire giant !!!
Seretur Ambalnor
Mortal
posted 07 March 2004 08:44 AM EDT (US)     48 / 85       
Fenris
Shiva
HG Alumnus
posted 07 March 2004 09:20 AM EDT (US)     49 / 85       
Manticore, If you'd ever been a top 100 Deathmatch player in Vanilla; you would have known how powerful wolves really were. Now, they are honestly: terrible.

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Bel_Garion
Mortal
posted 07 March 2004 09:34 AM EDT (US)     50 / 85       
Once again i will be your spelling correcter....
first paragraph: prbably- think you meant probably
and also there is "spc"
What is that? Is it an abbreviation i have never heard of or a typo? O well.
also you need some semi colons and commas to keep about 7 sentences from being run ons. I don't feel like pointing them out because i am lazy.
anyway, nice guide, but i would have liked much more detail about the special exactly how far the splash damage went. I am sorry if i seem like i am critisizing you, i'm not.
anyway again, i vote for the Valkyrie

Edit: i did the html wrong...

[This message has been edited by Bel_Garion (edited 03-07-2004 @ 09:36 AM).]

Shiva
HG Alumnus
posted 07 March 2004 09:43 AM EDT (US)     51 / 85       
SPC - Single Player Campaign.

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Amon_Ra121
Mortal
posted 07 March 2004 10:24 AM EDT (US)     52 / 85       
AWW!! Mountain Giant is the strongest building killer there yet!!! As with the fire giant(vote is for Mountain Giant). People want the valkyrie for some personal reason, huh? Or is it the fact that it can heal?

[This message has been edited by Amon_Ra121 (edited 03-07-2004 @ 10:24 AM).]

Germ_
Mortal
posted 07 March 2004 10:55 AM EDT (US)     53 / 85       
Valkyrie

They are just so friggin hot.

ChimeraArtemis
Mortal
posted 07 March 2004 11:10 AM EDT (US)     54 / 85       

Quote:

AWW!! Mountain Giant is the strongest building killer there yet!!!

It isn't. Not by a long way.

Sure its special is great against buildings, but Heka-Gigantes are the best building killers in game apart from Sekhmet's catapults and siege towers and maybe Baldr's portable rams.


ESO user name - ChimeraArtemis
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Creator of the Egyptian Myth Unit Guides - Phoenix, Wadjet, Scorpion Man, Scarab, Petsuchos
And the Atlantean Myth Unit Guides: Stymphalian Bird, Satyr, Lampades, Heka-Gigantes, Man O'War, Dryad, Automaton

DeafPride_Fang
Mortal
posted 07 March 2004 11:30 AM EDT (US)     55 / 85       
Good guide.

[b]Valkyrie[/b}


ESO name: ChazFang &DeafPride_Fang
Playing against a better player is one of the most effective way to improve...
What matters most is how you see yourself...
"Our fears and doubts are our traitors"-William Shakesphere
The last 3 lines are very true...
The last 4 lines are very true...
VAL_The_Speaker
Mortal
posted 07 March 2004 11:35 AM EDT (US)     56 / 85       
the reason i voted for valkyrie is because i play thor now and raid with valks all the time, so id like to see some tests

and MK, plz do it with the ups and wihout the ups plz


(-speaker-)
:unsure:
Cheesewiz
HG Alumnus
posted 07 March 2004 11:45 AM EDT (US)     57 / 85       
very good guide!


Valkyrie


Ex-Seraph Cheesewiz - Former WICH Webmaster, AOE3H Webmaster, & RTWH Staff, HeavenGames LLC
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amicus_curious
Mortal
posted 07 March 2004 01:19 PM EDT (US)     58 / 85       
Thanks for the guide!

I vote for the TROLL!


[img]http://ratings.fearclan.net/amicus_curious,1.png[/img]
tulkos
Mortal
posted 07 March 2004 02:41 PM EDT (US)     59 / 85       
Battle Boar

"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower (1887-1956)

"Don't be so humble - you are not that great."
- Golda Meir (1898-1978) to a visiting diplomat

AoS_Master
Mortal
posted 07 March 2004 06:54 PM EDT (US)     60 / 85       
Mountain Giant

they have an awesome special attack! and instant kill vs. dwarves!


Official Brotha of the NMA!
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