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Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy and General Discussion » How to get used to playing Supremacy?
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Topic Subject:How to get used to playing Supremacy?
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Jo93
Mortal
posted 14 September 2008 12:52 PM EDT (US)         
Hi, I'm a VERY old AoM player (I think I got it when the game was first released) and I used to play Deathmatch (with Norse) a LOT.
I was rated something decent at one point but I've completely forgoton what it was (it wasn't top 100 or anything though.)

After about 4 years (so I have nearly forgotton everything) I've decided to start playing again but with Supremacy and a different god probably (although I haven't decided.

At the moment I'm working my way through the campaign, which I never did when I played before.

I'd like to know if the game has changed much in any particular way, and some tips for Deathmatch players trying Supremacy for the first time.

Other than that, I'd just like to say Hi to all the forum members as well!

PS, I don't own the Titans expansion pack.

Thanks

Returned to AoM after about 4 years
Strictly vanilla player... only..
AuthorReplies:
Arus_II
Mortal
posted 08 October 2008 00:57 AM EDT (US)     61 / 122       
Do you play rated? There you can see better what your skill is.
Dudis
Mortal
posted 08 October 2008 05:36 AM EDT (US)     62 / 122       
Half the time im below 1600 and half the time im above 1600 :/

"Quotes are nothing but inspiration for the uninspired"
72% of people agree with me when I say 28% of people disagree with me.
"I'll remove the clit at the end" - Rotaretilbo
" I just snapped off my penis thinking it was a nk" - BeezleBub
"Im a transexual STFU" - Briguy
DeathAndPain
Mortal
posted 08 October 2008 10:31 AM EDT (US)     63 / 122       
Then you are a true 1600, as your average rating indicates your true skill (although that is also dependent on daily condition).

Darkness is a state of mind
Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
Dudis
Mortal
posted 08 October 2008 07:45 PM EDT (US)     64 / 122       
Thats noob right?

"Quotes are nothing but inspiration for the uninspired"
72% of people agree with me when I say 28% of people disagree with me.
"I'll remove the clit at the end" - Rotaretilbo
" I just snapped off my penis thinking it was a nk" - BeezleBub
"Im a transexual STFU" - Briguy
DeathAndPain
Mortal
posted 09 October 2008 02:27 AM EDT (US)     65 / 122       
It is average. The rating you start with. Depending on your mindset, you can call it n00b. Most will.

Darkness is a state of mind
Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
Major_Rackham
Banned
posted 09 October 2008 07:50 AM EDT (US)     66 / 122       
At this point of skill I think what would probably help you the most is just knowing what to do agaist each civ with each god as you probably have the basics down to a decent level. This is what I would recommend (sp?) anyways.
Arus_II
Mortal
posted 09 October 2008 10:39 AM EDT (US)     67 / 122       
Thats exactly what my problem is: what to do, as Zeus, vs eggy? centaur strangle sucks vs them, and athena rush (at least with minos) doesnt work either. Should I raid with hipps, go hop/tox, or just out-boom him till mythic?
muforseti
Mortal
posted 09 October 2008 11:07 AM EDT (US)     68 / 122       
you go fm and/or standard greek 2tc
Major_Rackham
Banned
posted 09 October 2008 02:14 PM EDT (US)     69 / 122       
No, building raid him with hops in the first 30 sec of him in *edited, sry* classic then just raid with hips to slow down his heroic while at the same time taking as few losses as possible so you can get a decent heroic time as well and maintain your econ so you can get plenty of peltasts for his chariots. Just keep him on the defense and get him to fight a battle that he can't win. That is key, getting him to waste troops in a battle he can't win, I repeat, the only way I ever win vs a decent isis. Then you can flood his (if he as one) forward mig then maintain gold control.

Works for me 80% of time, just stay ahead of the game on him and you will pull out of the game with a victory.

Maybe, DaP or Hells can give you a better plan but this is what I have to offer. Not sure about Muforseti as he doesn't have any credentials back him up. 2 TC has never worked for me but FM does work, I'll back him up on that. I am just more proficient in the strategy I described. Give it a try and see how it works for you, scylla spam if water works pretty good. If highland or anatolia just take his docks by land and u r fine as he won't fight in classy most likely. Good luck, hope it works as well for you as it does for me.

[This message has been edited by Major_Rackham (edited 10-10-2008 @ 09:30 PM).]

Arus_II
Mortal
posted 09 October 2008 03:14 PM EDT (US)     70 / 122       
the first 30 seconds of his Heroic? what should I do in classical then? Should I make any army att al untill the end of classical? And in the first seconds he most of the time will get his miggie up right? Isnt that too late for hop spam? btw: if he sees that i hop spam in classical, he surely will make axes, so he can maintain control.
And when is a good zeus classical/heroic time to get? And what should I attack with hops? Barracks/temples/houses/villies, or what? And should get hermes because of CF his a/e, or athena because of resto?
And whats a good BO vs eggy at start? And how can you flood miggie+army with minimal losses? And should I make any centaurs/minos at all?
And how can you raid him with housed towers?
Nirwanda
Mortal
posted 09 October 2008 03:21 PM EDT (US)     71 / 122       
you go fm and/or standard greek 2tc
DeathAndPain
Mortal
posted 10 October 2008 04:02 AM EDT (US)     72 / 122       
the first 30 seconds of his Heroic? what should I do in classical then?
I once used to be main god Zeus, although that is years in the past. Nonetheless, I would follow him right into heroic age right away (i.e. FH), without much fiddling in classical age. I am not so sure about FM though. While Zeus is a good mythic god, mythic age is also where the Eggy race in general shines. Also, Zeus' myrmidons are not that effective vs Eggy because myrms get no bonus vs axemen, so axemen counter them nicely, and so do chariots.

What I would do is try to fight it out in the age that favors the Greek race: Heroic. His phants will not yet have Thoth, and he will not have any ranged siege yet. But you do! I would try to enforce a forward fortress near remote gold mines and petrobolos-molest him from there. Not making petroboli is perhaps the mistake that I notice most often from Greek players. Having such a unit as early as heroic age is something that makes the Greek race stand out. Not using it means not playing your race to its strengths.

Remember that Eggy's capabilities to counter ranged siege are limited. The only Eggy unit that gets a bonus vs siege are spearmen, and keeping these at bay should be np for a heroic Greek. Camels stink in general, and catapults have too much pierce armor for chariots. Phants are too slow to be considered a siege counter.

So excessively use siege in heroic age. Make sure your petros actually spawn from your fortresses (they are 3-pop-units, and if any 2-pop-units are sitting at 99% in your barracks, these will spawn first, and you will never get your petros).
And should get hermes because of CF his a/e, or athena because of resto?
You should not plan on ceasing his anc/ecl, because it is impossible unless he is messing up by casting the two too slowly. Basing your strategy on your opponent hopefully making a big mistake is no good concept. Nonetheless Hermes is definitely an option. Ceasefire is always useful, in fact it is the best classical GP in existence. Athena is also good though. Both approaches are viable, IMHO.
And should I make any centaurs/minos at all?
Making myth units is always good, and not exploiting Zeus' super-favor-generation would be a mistake. Cents are better than minos vs Eggy, because they are harder for priests to target, but you will have to make what you get. If you go Athena, I recommend getting the Labyrinth of Minos upgrade before training any minos so you save food. Personally, I would probably go Hermes vs Eggy though. Then use cents to raid him. Remember that the combined special shot of 2 cents instantly kills an enemy villager. You can then run and wait until your cents have recharged. Not even priests can kill cents quickly enough to prevent you from pulling this of. And unless he is Ra and using priest empowerment, he will not have priests at every single resource.

Also remember that generally, priests are weak units that are only good vs MU. By making MU you force him to make priests with the pop and money that he would otherwise invest in good units. In main battle, micro your toxotes to shoot at the priests. Priests have 0% base pierce armor and will die like the flies to toxote fire. This can help protecting your minos as well.
And how can you raid him with housed towers?
With Zeus hops and myrms: By destroying them. With hippikons and centaurs: By ignoring them. A lone tower cannot deal as much damage to your raiders as they deal to his vills in a good raid. If you raid with hipps it may pay occasionally checking whether he has already researched crenellations though.

However, do not raid near his home TC. Not only can he quickly garrison his vills in emergency, your losses will also be too high in most cases for the raid to pay off even if he does not garrison, with the TC and 1-2 towers shooting at your men.

Darkness is a state of mind
Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
Arus_II
Mortal
posted 10 October 2008 12:03 PM EDT (US)     73 / 122       
Then use cents to raid him. Remember that the combined special shot of 2 cents instantly kills an enemy villager. You can then run and wait until your cents have recharged. Not even priests can kill cents quickly enough to prevent you from pulling this of. And unless he is Ra and using priest empowerment, he will not have priests at every single resource.
And what of the pharaoh? Your centaur wont be able to kill 1 villie, if they want to stay alive. And if he sees that you are raiding him, he should kepp 1 priest at the recourse points, because I think that will suffice vs centaur strangle.
With Zeus hops and myrms: By destroying them. With hippikons and centaurs: By ignoring them. A lone tower cannot deal as much damage to your raiders as they deal to his vills in a good raid. If you raid with hipps it may pay occasionally checking whether he has already researched crenellations though.
And you said that I should go FH? How do I FH while also strangling/raiding him?

[This message has been edited by Arus_II (edited 10-10-2008 @ 12:04 PM).]

Major_Rackham
Banned
posted 10 October 2008 09:40 PM EDT (US)     74 / 122       
Sry, editted previous post, I see why you were confused (replaced the first heroic with classical). Anyways, what I said works, optimally. If you find that your start was a bit messed up or he still managed to elude your raiders or had safe gathering or w/e may have been the problem (or you just flat out see that it is not going to work {as on maps like alfheim this is at its least efficiency}) I would reccomend doing what DaP said and going FH right with him, doing just as he said and abusing them petroboli.


Also, wtf? I heard someone say recently that you get a 0.15% bonus for fighting on the higher ground. This is total BS, correct? (foolish question, lol, just answer, don't mock)
Dudis
Mortal
posted 10 October 2008 10:43 PM EDT (US)     75 / 122       
If thats true then Myth Units get a 700 % bonus against Heroes if you kill 3 rhino's....

"Quotes are nothing but inspiration for the uninspired"
72% of people agree with me when I say 28% of people disagree with me.
"I'll remove the clit at the end" - Rotaretilbo
" I just snapped off my penis thinking it was a nk" - BeezleBub
"Im a transexual STFU" - Briguy
Major_Rackham
Banned
posted 10 October 2008 10:54 PM EDT (US)     76 / 122       
That is what I am figuring, but, in no offense to you, [W}I was looking for an answer from someone a bit more experienced than you. Although I am rather confident in you on this one, Dudis
Arus_II
Mortal
posted 11 October 2008 12:57 PM EDT (US)     77 / 122       
And whats a good class time for hop/hip raid?
i r n00b
Banned
posted 11 October 2008 01:03 PM EDT (US)     78 / 122       
Also, wtf? I heard someone say recently that you get a 0.15% bonus for fighting on the higher ground. This is total BS, correct? (foolish question, lol, just answer, don't mock)
You do get ein bonus, but I am not sure if it is 0.15.

There is ein bonus though.
YunSun
Mortal
posted 11 October 2008 02:55 PM EDT (US)     79 / 122       
As Zeus for Eggy ur best bet is to FH or FM.
I would go through Hermes since Ceasefire can help u get to Mythic age safely, and then for heroic age gods its debatable but i would most of the time choose dionysus, hit mythic age at around 12 min. or less and cast plenty vault to gain free resources,
then against eggy train all of the heroes then autoque villies again,
Train myrmidons and collosi, (peltasts if he has chariots)
A combination of zeus heroes, myrmidons, and ur collosi should be able to destroy his army with ease and a/e should be dealt with easily
VB_WhiplashJC
Mortal
posted 11 October 2008 09:07 PM EDT (US)     80 / 122       
There is ein bonus though.
+1. iirc you have to be at least about the height of a non upgraded tower for it to kick in, so really (on a standard map) you need to be up a cliff.

www.vbclan.net - Aussie/Kiwi AoT and AoE3 clan
Arus_II
Mortal
posted 12 October 2008 09:02 AM EDT (US)     81 / 122       
As Zeus for Eggy ur best bet is to FH or FM.
I would go through Hermes since Ceasefire can help u get to Mythic age safely, and then for heroic age gods its debatable but i would most of the time choose dionysus, hit mythic age at around 12 min. or less and cast plenty vault to gain free resources,
then against eggy train all of the heroes then autoque villies again,
Train myrmidons and collosi, (peltasts if he has chariots)
A combination of zeus heroes, myrmidons, and ur collosi should be able to destroy his army with ease and a/e should be dealt with easily
But how do you defeat his CA squad while he is in Heroic and you are FM-ing? How many mil. buildings should I make? And what is a good Class and Heroic time while FM? And is there a good BO for it?
YunSun
Mortal
posted 12 October 2008 01:56 PM EDT (US)     82 / 122       
on most maps ur classic time will be a bit later for a better economy I would say from 5:40 -6:30, ur heroic time would be around 7:20-8:20, Mythic time would be 9:20-12:20
U should be in heroic age before ur eggy opponent by a good 20 seconds, and if he does manage to try and raid u or attack u, use ceasefire that gives u another min. to train ur heroes, myrmidons, and collosi or reach mythic age, since u r given free myth units ur manticore or hydra and centaur should be enough to hold him out for a small time
I would make 2 academy and pump myrmidons from both and autoque, then build a second temple and start training collosi from both then train all of the greek heroes then autoque villies (ur plenty vault gives u free resources as well)
In the mythic age u can destroy his midgol units and priests fairly easy ur collosi are meatshields and can destroy buildings in a matter or seconds and take numerous hits(priests with funeral rites still will have a hard time dealing with them), ur Greek heroes also are decent meatshields and cant be taken down easily not to mention Bellerphon is OP early on he can take down his CA easy and u can even raid his vils early, while ur myrmidon take down his units and raze his buildings
if he micros on ur myrmidons with his CA find sometime to throw in an archery range and train peltasts
and there is no true build order for a fast mythic but if u r attempting it i would concentrate on food the most then gold and then wood, so most of ur vils will be on food and i wouldnt get any of the economic upgrades while trying to reach mythic age
DeathAndPain
Mortal
posted 13 October 2008 03:42 AM EDT (US)     83 / 122       
Yes, units on higher ground indeed get a bonus. I do not remember the exact value, because it rarely plays a role in actual games, but afaik it was far more than a mere 0.15.
And what of the pharaoh? Your centaur wont be able to kill 1 villie, if they want to stay alive.
Aw, c'mon.

  • Unless we are talking late mythic, he can never have more than one Pharaoh, who can guard one resource at most.

  • Even if you want to attack the resource with the pharaoh, that is not really a problem. If your opponent is halfway decent, that pharaoh will be busy empowering that resource. This means that he will not attack your cents automatically even if these come in range. Now imagine you have a pair of ranged cents. They suddenly appear out of the unscouted dark and pull off one single special shot. The enemy gets the alarm sound exactly in the moment when his vill dies. By the time he has moved his screen there and is ready to micro his Pharaoh, your cents have already vanished back into the dark to reload and attack again. A centaur sure would survive a Pharaoh hit, but normally, this will not even be necessary. Again, two cents, one special shot, and an enemy vill (not Atlantean, of course) is dead.

    I think this makes it more than obvious that a lone priest will not suffice to protect a resource either. To the contrary: For a non-Ra-player it will be a waste of pop to deploy a useless priest at every single resource. If he wastes his pop space like that, you are probably capable to simply overwhelm his main army with yours, since yours is larger.
    And you said that I should go FH? How do I FH while also strangling/raiding him?
    It is always advisable to maintain a balanced econ, i.e. have a solid income of all sorts of resources (although you may lean your income towards the resources that you will need most in the near future). For your heroic advance, you need food and gold. Your balanced econ should also provide some wood and favor though. And these happen to be exactly the resources required to train centaurs...
    I would go through Hermes since Ceasefire can help u get to Mythic age safely
    No, it cannot. Ceasefire can buy you one minute, but that is not even nearly enough to reach mythic age. Cease can save your day when the enemy forces suddenly show up at your soft and unprotected underbelly, but only to buy you time to move your own forces there. However, if you have no such forces in the first place, because you were rushing for mythic age, then your doom will just be delayed for one minute.
    But how do you defeat his CA squad while he is in Heroic and you are FM-ing?
    Not at all. If you neglect to make proper military in heroic age, you are doomed. Anyway, I see little reason to rush to the age Eggy is best in when the age your race is best in lies on your way.
    U should be in heroic age before ur eggy opponent by a good 20 seconds
    How would you do that, with him having prosperity or rain and Zeus having no economic bonus other than better favor income? Isis also gets cheaper econ ups, while Ra has priest empowerment. Does not work.
    I would make 2 academy and pump myrmidons from both and autoque, then build a second temple and start training collosi from both then train all of the greek heroes then autoque villies (ur plenty vault gives u free resources as well)
    Your myrms will lose horribly to his axemen, and he does not even have to be in mythic to get those. You do not have toxotes because you commanded to just train myrms and colossi. And behind the axemen, chariots will also kill your myrms while your peltasts are far out of range (the chariots target your front melee row, while the peltasts need to move up to be able to target his rear chariot row. As if that was not enough, chariots also outrange and outspeed peltasts, so when you have finally moved into range, meaning that your peltasts are standing amidst his axes and that you have already taken severe losses, the chariots simply back off a little and let the axemen do their job.)

    Colossi are the really good units vs Eggy, but again, you will not reach mythic age quickly enough to train them in sufficient numbers before his CA have raided you to death, followed by his elephants. Not if you neglect to make an army first.

    Also, YunSun, you should definitely consider using proper punctuation and paragraphs. Yes, that does mean additional effort, but you have no idea how many people here do not bother reading through your wall of text in its unreadable state, so you should decide either sparing yourself the effort to write it, or going all the way and writing it in a readable manner. Some people also do not read my usually long replies, but if I wrote them the way you do, hardly anyone would read them at all.

    Darkness is a state of mind
    Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
    Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
  • muforseti
    Mortal
    posted 13 October 2008 08:35 AM EDT (US)     84 / 122       
    So you are claiming a tried and tested 19+ strategy as Zeus vs Isis does not work? Interesting.

    FM does not work on every map, but don't make it sound like it isn't viable, it categorically is by proof of expert rec games.
    DeathAndPain
    Mortal
    posted 13 October 2008 09:04 AM EDT (US)     85 / 122       
    ...such as you who is not even man enough to reveal his true identity...

    Darkness is a state of mind
    Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
    Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
    muforseti
    Mortal
    posted 13 October 2008 12:25 PM EDT (US)     86 / 122       
    ?11
    YunSun
    Mortal
    posted 13 October 2008 03:27 PM EDT (US)     87 / 122       
    Yes, I should use proper punctuation marks but im a bit lazy XD

    As for the FM tactic used against Eggy I dont see how every single unit can destroy Zeus' military.
    As for the axemen most of the time they won't even bother with them since they will be usually massing Midgol units first.
    As for the axemen vs Myrmidons u are forgetting they u also have ur Greek Heroes with u and Jason, Heracles, Bellerphon and Odysseus with u and they can make quick work of his axemen.
    Ceasefire should be more than enough because most players will retreat when this happens and u should be in heroic age by then and then quickly into mythic age.
    Greeks should generally be in heroic age faster because they have an early economic advantage and since u r not getting those economic upgrades unlike Egyptians u should be able to advance quicker.
    Shanks13
    Rogue Agent
    posted 13 October 2008 04:11 PM EDT (US)     88 / 122       
    ...such as you who is not even man enough to reveal his true identity...
    Stop. Now. Have I not made myself clear enough?

    BlackSun88
    Banned
    posted 13 October 2008 08:15 PM EDT (US)     89 / 122       
    Bonus on hill is 40%
    Major_Rackham
    Banned
    posted 13 October 2008 11:10 PM EDT (US)     90 / 122       
    Wow, that is considerable! Btw, I'm pretty sure Zeus gets the first line of upgrades when he FM, 99% sure. In fact, most guides say that (not just ones on this site; hmmm, this site doesn't even say a thing bout Zeus FM).
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