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Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy and General Discussion » Huskarl?
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Topic Subject:Huskarl?
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Dudis
Mortal
posted 06 October 2008 07:01 PM EDT (US)         
Are they completly useless against other norse?
AuthorReplies:
Koramei
Mortal
posted 06 October 2008 07:03 PM EDT (US)     1 / 39       
No, nothing is completely useless. Not even villagers.
Major_Rackham
Banned
posted 06 October 2008 07:10 PM EDT (US)     2 / 39       
They are excellent raiders and are adept at taking down buildings.
sdw12umdjc
Mortal
posted 06 October 2008 07:26 PM EDT (US)     3 / 39       
As Odin huskarl > ulfsark. I say that hesitently because I don't know the exact stats but I'm pretty sure huskarls have the same attack as ulfsarks so they are better when Odin because of hill fort bonus. I accept that I may be wrong in this instance though because I don't know Norse very well.

Confucious says, "Man who jump through screen door likely to strain himself."
Major_Rackham
Banned
posted 06 October 2008 07:40 PM EDT (US)     4 / 39       
Hmmm...I might not get the gist of what you are are getting at, long name, but they counter two completely different types of units so I do not see why you would pick these two to compare. Care to enlighten me?
sdw12umdjc
Mortal
posted 06 October 2008 07:50 PM EDT (US)     5 / 39       
If they both have the same attack then Huskarl are a better choice because they have better overall stats that Ulfsarks. The key is that it is only true as Odin because of his hill fort bonuses and lack of Bragi to give Ulfsarks bonus damage vs. cavalry. So, Huskarl serve the purpose of melee infantry better than Ulfsark when playing Odin.

But like I said, I'd have to check the exact stats to be sure. I may very well have remembered wrongly concerning their stats.

Also, most people just call me "sdw" since that's the first part of my screen name. Its also my initials so it makes sense that way too. Oddly enough, your screen name has more characters than mine.

Confucious says, "Man who jump through screen door likely to strain himself."

[This message has been edited by sdw12umdjc (edited 10-06-2008 @ 07:52 PM).]

HailToTheOboe
Bitten by a radioactive ostrich
posted 06 October 2008 07:53 PM EDT (US)     6 / 39       
If you are playing Odin (which is to say 23 hp bonus for huskarls and no Bragi), huskarls can do nearly everything that ulfsarks can do, and often they can do it better - especially if fighting near towers or hill forts.

That said, as an Odin player, there are very few situations in a norse vs norse game where I would use huskarls (or even ulfs) if I could use Jarls instead.

awaiting contradiction from DaP concerning Jarls (:

[This message has been edited by HailToTheOboe (edited 10-06-2008 @ 07:54 PM).]

LS_tmac911
Banned
posted 06 October 2008 07:54 PM EDT (US)     7 / 39       
Huskarls are higher ranking fat officials while Ulfsarks are battle crazed men who kill bears and wear them as costumes. Hmmm lemme see, who would I rather want to have to kill the enemy... EUREKA! ULFSARKS>HOSQUIRRELS
Shanks13
Rogue Agent
posted 06 October 2008 08:09 PM EDT (US)     8 / 39       
Be quiet unless you know what you're talking about.

LS_tmac911
Banned
posted 06 October 2008 08:13 PM EDT (US)     9 / 39       
tough crowd tonight and jay gatsby is no man to idolize unless you want to end up merk'd in a pool

[This message has been edited by LS_tmac911 (edited 10-06-2008 @ 08:19 PM).]

Shanks13
Rogue Agent
posted 06 October 2008 08:22 PM EDT (US)     10 / 39       
I fail to see how my quote idolizes Gatsby. It points out the flaw in Gatsby's life, and many people's lives.

LS_tmac911
Banned
posted 06 October 2008 08:28 PM EDT (US)     11 / 39       
you just taught me more than my junior english teacher, thank you
Major_Rackham
Banned
posted 06 October 2008 09:55 PM EDT (US)     12 / 39       
Aww...I see, I didn't know that ulfs were that terrible vs ellies and the like without Bragi. Well, as for my name, I would change it to just "Major" if I knew how (I don't actually believe there is a way). Although, sdw, you'd have to admit that my name is a whole lot easier to remember and/or type than yours.
Dudis
Mortal
posted 07 October 2008 00:44 AM EDT (US)     13 / 39       
Ahhh I thought they wernt as good against norse than other civs cuz of no archers...
Arus_II
Mortal
posted 07 October 2008 00:53 AM EDT (US)     14 / 39       
Aww...I see, I didn't know that ulfs were that terrible vs ellies and the like without Bragi.
arnt huskarls even worse vs ellies because of zero multipliers?
DeathAndPain
Mortal
posted 07 October 2008 04:24 AM EDT (US)     15 / 39       
Are they completly useless against other norse?
Yes. You can train them in emergency if you do not have the food for ulfsarks, but other than that, there is not much reason to make them. Unless you have gone Tyr, that is, but Tyr is only viable for Loki.
They are excellent raiders and are adept at taking down buildings.
Ulfs are even better raiders. Their slower speed is negligible (4.8 compared to 5.0), but ulfs do higher base damage, which is important for raiders because you want to kill the enemy vills before they get a chance to flee. Huskarls would theoretically be better for raiding under enemy building fire, but nobody uses them that way, and for good reason, because in the vicinity of their buildings the vills will simply garrison, so there will be nothing left to raid.
As Odin huskarl > ulfsark. I say that hesitently because I don't know the exact stats but I'm pretty sure huskarls have the same attack as ulfsarks
I am very sure that what you are "pretty sure" of is wrong. Ulfs have 9 attack, huskarls only have 8. Their overall melee combat value is still identical due to the much higher huskarl hp that also compensates their lower hack armor.
so they are better when Odin because of hill fort bonus.
As far as their overall combat value is concerned that is basically correct, however the difference is so minimal that it cannot compensate for the much higher huskarl resource cost as well as huskarls requiring expensive hill forts to train.

Odin gets neither Forseti nor Bragi, but he has a speed upgrade for ulfsarks so they even outrun huskarls. Nonetheless Odin will rarely train ulfs because he is a RC raid and hill fort god, but making ulfs is still better for him than making huskarls vs Norse.
Hmmm...I might not get the gist of what you are are getting at, long name, but they counter two completely different types of units so I do not see why you would pick these two to compare. Care to enlighten me?
They are both fast-paced 2-pop-infantry units, and in fact, huskarls are not worse against non-archer units than ulfsarks are (without Bragi's Swine Array upgrade). So without divine upgrades, you can replace ulfs with huskarls in any possible situation. However, huskarls are much more expensive, so I see no point in doing this vs Norse except in a food emergency.
That said, as an Odin player, there are very few situations in a norse vs norse game where I would use huskarls (or even ulfs) if I could use Jarls instead.

awaiting contradiction from DaP concerning Jarls (:
Jarls serve their purpose in Norse vs Norse games because they require no micro and serve as an excellent meat shield for TA, which are very important units in Norse vs Norse combat.
Ahhh I thought they wernt as good against norse than other civs cuz of no archers...
And that is correct. Do not train them vs Norse. I always celebrate when I see an enemy Norse attempting to achieve anything with his huskarls against my RC/Jarl/Skadi TA force. Skadi TA kill huskarls so quickly it is not even funny.
arnt huskarls even worse vs ellies because of zero multipliers?
No, because non-Bragi ulfs also have zero multipliers vs elephants... Another detail you would have known if you had cared to have a look at the tables. Well, I guess over time you will learn the game this way as well. You will take years longer to understand the game mechanics, and have lots more of embarassing moments like this one, but sooner or later you will have been notified even of your last illusion. Of course, you could achieve the same within a few minutes if you read through the tables now.

Darkness is a state of mind
Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
Arus_II
Mortal
posted 07 October 2008 03:27 PM EDT (US)     16 / 39       
Ive done it, and indeed: they have no multipliers. But how can Odin ever defend against cavalry? Ulfs only have the advantage that they have a bit more hack armour and maybe HP.
Shanks13
Rogue Agent
posted 07 October 2008 05:00 PM EDT (US)     17 / 39       
But how can Odin ever defend against cavalry?
RC beat hippikons pop-wise, camels suck, prodromos are only good against other cavalry, contarius suck... Jarls and Ellies would be the main threats, but at least it's not all cavalry that steamrolls.

LS_tmac911
Banned
posted 07 October 2008 06:49 PM EDT (US)     18 / 39       
Fenris Wolf spam isn't too bad vs calvary. if they spam eles, spam walls- no one knows how well it works
Dudis
Mortal
posted 07 October 2008 07:18 PM EDT (US)     19 / 39       
Ive seen people train Huskarl vs other Norse in bloodsport and I always wonder why...?

And wow I never realised how hard of a time Odin has with cavalry, will make sure to spam elephants like hell vs Odin!

"Quotes are nothing but inspiration for the uninspired"
72% of people agree with me when I say 28% of people disagree with me.
"I'll remove the clit at the end" - Rotaretilbo
" I just snapped off my penis thinking it was a nk" - BeezleBub
"Im a transexual STFU" - Briguy

[This message has been edited by Dudis (edited 10-07-2008 @ 07:23 PM).]

Arus_II
Mortal
posted 08 October 2008 01:02 AM EDT (US)     20 / 39       
Why do contarii suck?
DeathAndPain
Mortal
posted 08 October 2008 03:49 AM EDT (US)     21 / 39       
But how can Odin ever defend against cavalry? Ulfs only have the advantage that they have a bit more hack armour and maybe HP.
Ulfs have less hp than cavalry units... I thought you have read the tables?

True is that 1 ulf loses to 1 RC. But that means little: 1 tox also loses to 1 hop. Things change as numbers increase on both sides though. Cavalry units are larger than infantry units, so they have worse pathing. Ulfsarks are therefore easier to micro and have an easier time focussing their attack on the same target cavalry unit. This causes ulfsarks to win when numbers on both sides are large.

Ulfs also have higher hack armor, and I know of no other military unit in the game that benefits from so many divine upgrades as ulfsarks. Of course this only applies if you choose the corresponding gods, but with Forseti, Bragi, and Tyr all improving your ulfsarks, it is pretty hard to avoid having godly-improved ulfs. In fact, you cannot really avoid it, because all three Norse main gods improve ulfsarks in one way or another (Odin: better speed, Thor: more armory ups, Loki: train faster).

The fact remains that ulfs only barely counter cavalry. They are not far superior. This is why you need Bragi when you are playing against a race with strong cavalry, namely Poseidon and any Eggy.

Returning to your question how Odin is supposed to stand his ground, well, he definitely has the hardest time doing so. However, he happens to be the god with the strongest cavalry after elephants. With his innate bonus on hill fort units, plus the benefits of his natural subgod choices Freyja and Njord, he gets jarls with insane hp, which easily defeat any non-elephant cavalry unit in the game (perhaps excluding Prodromos, but I doubt even that. Would have to test it to be sure). Odin can pick other subgods under certain circumstances, but these are the most common choices because they offer him this op unit.

True is that Odin has a massive problem with elephants. His only hope of countering these are myth units. Frosties are most popular for Odin to counter elephants. The only alternative would be Einherjars. Pretty much any army wins vs elephants when empowered by a couple Einherjars. The problem is that Einherjars are not famous for their pierce armor, and a few heroic priests should be able to pick them off np from safe range.
Fenris Wolf spam isn't too bad vs calvary.
Fenris Wolf spam is a deathmatch tactics that is hardly viable in supremacy games (unless you have won anyway, in which case pretty much everything is viable). You need too much time and temples to accumulate enough wolves to be efficient. And at pop limit your wolves will never spawn, because whenever you lose a unit, one of your longhouse or hill fort units that require less pop and is sitting at 99% will spawn with priority. Under these circumstances, assembling a sizeable wolfpack is way too much effort for too little gain, especially since you could have the awesome fire giants instead (and all three Norse main gods get access to fire giants).
if they spam eles, spam walls- no one knows how well it works
I do. It sucks, as elephants get 3x damage against buildings. And these walls cost money while not fighting for you.
Ive seen people train Huskarl vs other Norse in bloodsport and I always wonder why...?
I do not play scenarios, so I do not know bloodsport, but in my supremacy games I have always wondered the same... no wait... I have not really bothered wondering about it - I simply order my Skadi TA at them and slaughter them.
Why do contarii suck?
Read the tables again and compare their stats to, say, hippikons. Then you should know.

Also keep in mind that Contarii do not come before heroic age, but still you need to research medium cavalry for them. No sane Atl will invest that money for such a crappy unit. If anything, you could go for TCH (Theia Contarius Heroes). These will not require line upgrades because heroes get their line ups for free at every age advance. TCH are nice; they are what hetairoi should have been. However, although TCH are good, they are too expensive to pay off.

Darkness is a state of mind
Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
Dudis
Mortal
posted 08 October 2008 05:51 AM EDT (US)     22 / 39       
I dont know if you already what bloodsport is but its the only scenario i know that 1700+ play, so its not only a noob scenario. Basicly if you dont know already you advance through classic age and you only have a limited amount of resources. you have 1 min to research and create as many units as you can in the time and resource limit. After time is up your 30 units are sent to an arena in the middle of the map to fight your opponents 30 units. It takes ALOT of micro and it helps your micro skills. Once all of the oponents units are dead you win a round. Then next round you advance to heroic age and start the process again, first to win 7 rounds wins.

I can talk alot more about bloodsport but i dont think its necessary :0

"Quotes are nothing but inspiration for the uninspired"
72% of people agree with me when I say 28% of people disagree with me.
"I'll remove the clit at the end" - Rotaretilbo
" I just snapped off my penis thinking it was a nk" - BeezleBub
"Im a transexual STFU" - Briguy
Mythic_Freak
Mortal
posted 08 October 2008 07:55 AM EDT (US)     23 / 39       
Some 1800+ play zelda, so I'm not sure that's good indication...

If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it? - Einstein, A.
Master XS - AoM Code Reference - Trigger Loader - Trigger Requests - Chess

Wow, I never thought that I would actually know something before nottud did... it's actually not all that satisfying ~ Steak
Dudis
Mortal
posted 08 October 2008 07:59 AM EDT (US)     24 / 39       
Just saying half of the people that play bloodsport are 1600+ or 1700+ so its not like other scenarios where only noobs play it...

Still just because someone is a high ranking doesnt stop them from playing scenarios, I know HailToTheOboe quite likes the scenario DFA mini

"Quotes are nothing but inspiration for the uninspired"
72% of people agree with me when I say 28% of people disagree with me.
"I'll remove the clit at the end" - Rotaretilbo
" I just snapped off my penis thinking it was a nk" - BeezleBub
"Im a transexual STFU" - Briguy

[This message has been edited by Dudis (edited 10-08-2008 @ 08:01 AM).]

Arus_II
Mortal
posted 08 October 2008 12:37 PM EDT (US)     25 / 39       
And im shure that some 1900 players still play minigames X for example..
muforseti
Mortal
posted 08 October 2008 05:45 PM EDT (US)     26 / 39       
Fallacy alert

Code red throughout this topic.
i r n00b
Banned
posted 08 October 2008 05:48 PM EDT (US)     27 / 39       
And im shure that some 1900 players still play minigames X for example..
Apparentlyl not 'shure' enough, because you are wrong.
LS_tmac911
Banned
posted 08 October 2008 06:08 PM EDT (US)     28 / 39       
im 1900 and i play it soOz u be wrong
muforseti
Mortal
posted 08 October 2008 06:31 PM EDT (US)     29 / 39       
but i am 3.1k and dont play it so i cancel you out
a_game_a_win
Mortal
posted 08 October 2008 09:34 PM EDT (US)     30 / 39       
However, I developed this game since beta, and I can tell you once you have a group of 32+ huskarls, they gain an extra 35% attack.

pretty sweet, huh?
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