You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Strategy and General Discussion
Moderated by Yeebaagooon, TAG

Hop to:    
Welcome! You are not logged in. Please Login or Register.72 replies
Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy and General Discussion » Night and Day
Bottom
Topic Subject:Night and Day
« Previous Page  1 2 3  Next Page »
AoM God
Mortal
posted 29 January 2002 06:30 PM EDT (US)         
"... night and day will be available in the scenario editor only..." - Bruce Shelley

I sure hope that we can change to night in regular scenarios. I think it would be cool to fight battles at night. God powers and myth units glowing at night and fire-lit arrows and catapolts flying in the air. These are just a few ideas that would make the game that much more spectacular to look at. Even building your city at sun set or sun rise (or whatever time you want) would be interesting to, it would give your city a whole new look.

AoM God

AuthorReplies:
Kong_KK
Mortal
posted 29 January 2002 10:41 PM EDT (US)     31 / 72       
No, you must not completely understand how a 3D engine works because you can't just simply add a few lines of code to make the sun rise and make the stars go away. The lighting aspect of it would probably be easier since there really wouldn't need to be any outside art needed for it, but they would need to create a bunch of in between skybox textures in order to make the sky progressively change so you're not just staring at a bunch of stars and *poof* it's a nice sunny day.

[added]

Also I'm pretty positive ES said that their won't be transitions while in-game.

[This message has been edited by Kong_KK (edited 01-29-2002 @ 10:46 PM).]

deadlydentures
Mortal
posted 29 January 2002 10:43 PM EDT (US)     32 / 72       
*cough*
HELLO!!!
No textures will have to be created at all!!!!
Its all about shading and stuff.
Take my word for it.
You have your original object, that has a frame, and then a base texture. Then the 3D engine adds lighting(whatever it may be) and manipulates that objects looks.

The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference.
The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference.
And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.
robdude11
Mortal
posted 29 January 2002 10:43 PM EDT (US)     33 / 72       
ES maybe wants to give the mod community more variables to work with, so that the scenarios created will be brilliant! if there are transitions in the scenario editor, then u could, say, change form night to day after a big fight. the point is, they maybe don't wanna take away from the campaigns or generated scenarios by adding night/day to RM or DM.
robdude11
Mortal
posted 29 January 2002 10:47 PM EDT (US)     34 / 72       

Quoted from deadlydentures:

You have your original object, that has a frame, and then a base texture. Then the 3D engine adds lighting(whatever it may be) and manipulates that objects looks.

yes, but u have to create multiple lighting effects just to create a smooth transition. and, u'd do in on every single object. and that's just lighting! u'd have to change shadows, sky, and other things.

[This message has been edited by robdude11 (edited 01-29-2002 @ 10:47 PM).]

Kong_KK
Mortal
posted 29 January 2002 10:48 PM EDT (US)     35 / 72       
Different skybox textures would have to be created. Regular ground textures wouldn't have to be changed but it wouldn't work the same way with the sky.
deadlydentures
Mortal
posted 29 January 2002 10:48 PM EDT (US)     36 / 72       
*switches to debater mode*

Quote:

the point is, they maybe don't wanna take away from the campaigns or generated scenarios by adding night/day to RM or DM.


The point is? Just a few seconds ago you were talking about performance, and now you've changed it??

It wouldn't hurt to put it in both.

But i do agree on the point that it will have a significantly better effect in the scenario editor, period. It will add to the story, everyone wants to raid a town at night


The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference.
The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference.
And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.
deadlydentures
Mortal
posted 29 January 2002 10:50 PM EDT (US)     37 / 72       
you never see the sky..

The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference.
The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference.
And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.
robdude11
Mortal
posted 29 January 2002 10:51 PM EDT (US)     38 / 72       

Quoted from deadlydentures:

The point is? Just a few seconds ago you were talking about performance, and now you've changed it??

i'm just trying to explain that transitions would take away from the gameplay, AND they would require a lot of work for the graphics, which requires more logarithms, scripts, and increase in sys req.

[This message has been edited by robdude11 (edited 01-29-2002 @ 10:52 PM).]

deadlydentures
Mortal
posted 29 January 2002 10:54 PM EDT (US)     39 / 72       

Quote:

graphics, which requires more logarithms, scripts, and increase in sys req

first off, i've proven how it won't hurt graphics wise.

second, LOGARITHMS, please explain.

scripts for what, the screnario editor?


The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference.
The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference.
And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.
pokethejohn
Mortal
posted 29 January 2002 10:56 PM EDT (US)     40 / 72       
I saw keep the day and light in RM but kick it out of DM.

I think they should have an option. Day and night changes. Because it would get annoying after a while to have it constantly changing from say to night every game. But it would be an AWESOME pre-game option!


Personal site- www.stellar-sky.net/immix -not active at the moment.
AOM site I help run- www.age-of-myth.com -check out the new layout.
Age site I post news for- www.aoe2.com -back up and running

Kong_KK
Mortal
posted 29 January 2002 10:56 PM EDT (US)     41 / 72       
DD you're still making it sound as if it is a simple process that you could spend 10 minutes on and you'd be done. It's just not that simple.

[added]

Yeah, pokethejohn, I think it'd be great if they had a pregame setting for that.

[This message has been edited by Kong_KK (edited 01-29-2002 @ 10:58 PM).]

deadlydentures
Mortal
posted 29 January 2002 10:59 PM EDT (US)     42 / 72       
Thats because it is!!!

Quote:

I saw keep the day and light in RM but kick it out of DM.

Why RM, but not DM?


The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference.
The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference.
And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.
robdude11
Mortal
posted 29 January 2002 11:00 PM EDT (US)     43 / 72       
logarithms = aritmetic functions tabulated for use in calculation.

these are basically different instructions for accomplishing a task. i.e. for transition from night to dawn

1. timer reaches designated time (ie 15 minutes)
2. time= time +1
if time=1 then
Call modChangeTime.Dawn
elseif time=2 then
Call modChangeTime.Day
elseif time=3 then
Call modChangeTime.Dusk
elseif time=4 then
call modchange time.night
time=0
endif
(here i am using vb code, whereas c++ is even more complicating)
secondly, scripts as in maybe at night animals sleep, during the day they walk around, stuff like that. you also have to actually write all the code for the modules (modChangeTime.*whatever*), and this is the difficult part.

[This message has been edited by robdude11 (edited 01-29-2002 @ 11:02 PM).]

Kong_KK
Mortal
posted 29 January 2002 11:05 PM EDT (US)     44 / 72       
"The time of day won't change over the course of a game." taken from AoM Heaven FAQ.

Also D3D has more functions you have to go through to do certain things. Here is an rough example of the functions called to draw a polygon in both GL and D3D:

OpenGL:

glBegin (GL_TRIANGLES);
glVertex (0,0,0);
glVertex (1,1,0);
glVertex (2,0,0);
glEnd ();

Direct3D:

v = &buffer.vertexes[0];
v->x = 0; v->y = 0; v->z = 0;
v++;
v->x = 1; v->y = 1; v->z = 0;
v++;
v->x = 2; v->y = 0; v->z = 0;
c = &buffer.commands;
c->operation = DRAW_TRIANGLE;
c->vertexes[0] = 0;
c->vertexes[1] = 1;
c->vertexes[2] = 2;
IssueExecuteBuffer (buffer);

This isn't the exact stuff called but it gives you the general idea of what's going on. This is one of the reasons why some developers still opt to use OpenGL, because it is easier to use in some cases.

pokethejohn
Mortal
posted 29 January 2002 11:05 PM EDT (US)     45 / 72       

Quote:

Why RM, but not DM?

Because in DM you are rushing to beat the other player really fast with lost of resources the begin with. Day and night would just mess it up.

Rm on they other hand it build and then distroy..well building some more. They day and night would look really good on RM. As long as they dont overdo it.

I AM ALL THEY WAY FOR A PRE-GAME OPTION FOR DAY AND NIGHT!
ES PLEASE TAKE THE SUGGESTION AND AT LEAST THINK OF USING IT...thanks


Personal site- www.stellar-sky.net/immix -not active at the moment.
AOM site I help run- www.age-of-myth.com -check out the new layout.
Age site I post news for- www.aoe2.com -back up and running

robdude11
Mortal
posted 29 January 2002 11:07 PM EDT (US)     46 / 72       
<gives Kong_KK high five>
we should make a game. u can make the graphics, and i the programming code. hehe
deadlydentures
Mortal
posted 29 January 2002 11:10 PM EDT (US)     47 / 72       
*can program in c++ with hands tied behind backs*
Logarithms are functions used to help with exponitial funtions
ie log x = 10x

sooooo
//lets assume game_time is a global varible
void Timer()
{
//no tabs
int static time ; // length of game so far
game_time = time/45*constant ; //45 minutes lets say, so what fraction of the 45 minutes
//have we been through, and the constant depends of engine
if( game_time >= 100 ) //depends on engine of cource, but we want it to cycle
game_time = 0 ;
}

Wow that was hard wasn't it!!!
Basically since the 3D engine uses the game_time all the time, whether it changes or not, thats all i need.


The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference.
The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference.
And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.
Kong_KK
Mortal
posted 29 January 2002 11:10 PM EDT (US)     48 / 72       
Eh, I suck at graphics and art and that stuff. I've tried my share of modelling, mapping, and skinning, and the only thing I was half way decent in was coding. I'm especially having fun with the Quake 2 engine source released awhile back. It's yummy.
deadlydentures
Mortal
posted 29 January 2002 11:11 PM EDT (US)     49 / 72       
pokethejohn
well said, and i see you point.


Whose the man? I'm the Man!!!!!
WOOT!


The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference.
The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference.
And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.

[This message has been edited by deadlydentures (edited 01-29-2002 @ 11:14 PM).]

Kong_KK
Mortal
posted 29 January 2002 11:14 PM EDT (US)     50 / 72       
The timer part of it would be very simple. You just keep calling functions every min or so that make the environment get lighter or darker. The part that would be difficult would be making light blend properly and getting the right amounts of color in. Also I'm assuming shadows would be shut off during the night so the shaders for those would have to be slowly added onto the landscape.
robdude11
Mortal
posted 29 January 2002 11:14 PM EDT (US)     51 / 72       

Quoted from deadlydentures:

*can program in c++ with hands tied behind backs*

so how will u type? and logarithms are both the log u were talking about and the CPU instructions i was talking about.

deadlydentures
Mortal
posted 29 January 2002 11:15 PM EDT (US)     52 / 72       
and its a shame CPUs can only computer billions of calculations per second.

EDIT
also, as i have said, the 3D engine checks the time of day all the frieken time anyways. Trust me, it won't slow it down.

Now back off!! I'm tired of uz noobs trying to prove me wrong with your ignorance.


The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference.
The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference.
And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.

[This message has been edited by deadlydentures (edited 01-29-2002 @ 11:17 PM).]

Kong_KK
Mortal
posted 29 January 2002 11:18 PM EDT (US)     53 / 72       
and it's a shame that some people don't have GeForce3's that are able to dynamically render lightmaps...
robdude11
Mortal
posted 29 January 2002 11:18 PM EDT (US)     54 / 72       

Quoted from deadlydentures:

and its a shame CPUs can only computer billions of calculations per second.

how many calculations do u think are already being calculated . i've had my AMD 850mhz Duron freeze for 5 seconds while calculating a move in my chess game made in vb!

deadlydentures
Mortal
posted 29 January 2002 11:20 PM EDT (US)     55 / 72       
and theres a huge difference b/t 5,000,000,000 and 5,000,000,010 isn't there.

The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference.
The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference.
And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.
robdude11
Mortal
posted 29 January 2002 11:21 PM EDT (US)     56 / 72       
the 3D engine doesn't have to check the time of the day if it is not needed, like in other rts wihtout day/night.
deadlydentures
Mortal
posted 29 January 2002 11:23 PM EDT (US)     57 / 72       
Alrighty, let me just tell you this straight.

IT WON'T SLOW IT DOWN>
In fact there was a movie a while back, like from E3 where the dude had a bar and he changed the day and night on the game. Smmmooooothh assss siilllkk. Not even a hint of slowness. You guys don't understand this.


The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference.
The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference.
And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.
robdude11
Mortal
posted 29 January 2002 11:24 PM EDT (US)     58 / 72       
but that was a movie, and there were no other things bieng processed. all i can say is, AoM is gonna be a great game, and good night
deadlydentures
Mortal
posted 29 January 2002 11:25 PM EDT (US)     59 / 72       
good night!!!

*sigh*


The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference.
The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference.
And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.
AoM God
Mortal
posted 30 January 2002 01:36 AM EDT (US)     60 / 72       
WHOA MAN! lol . I make a post on something I was surprised to hear about (from bruce shelly) and I come home and I see 59 replies! Well guys Im still awake I just finished reading this huge debate. But really the point I was trying to make was if ES was going to put the night and day into the campaigns why not put it into the random maps as well.
Its not a timer thing that changes from night to day every 3 minutes or whatever you guys were arguing about.

Deadlydentures I saw the video too, and thats what I'de love to see in the game. The little bar that lets you choose to turn it to night or sunrise or whatever (like a daily cycle), its your choice, its not something where you have to wait till its day time to play again. Well thats what I saw in the video and that is what im 100 % for.

And to thunder , yes it does make a difference to me and alot of other gamers. But I agree with you though, Gameplay before graphics, but if this option was in the game before why take it out now. I say they keep it for the beta test and there we can decide if its good or not.

I read something in an article that said that attacking at night was better since the buildings and people have less of a radius to see. There are many other ways this can effect the gameplay and make it more fun. If you read the very first thing I said I talk about how it would look amazing, its all awesome eye candy.

Im sure ES will figure it out the game will be amazing no matter what, but I just hope they keep this night and day switching for us.

AoM God

« Previous Page  1 2 3  Next Page »
You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Hop to:    

Age of Mythology Heaven | HeavenGames