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Topic Subject: A Guide to the Stymphalian Bird
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posted 17 January 2004 01:40 PM EDT (US)   
A Guide to the Stymphalian Bird

Following my Egyptian Myth Unit Guides last year, I'm going to keep up to date with the new Atlantean Myth Unit Guides.

Now, I know that not everyone is a fan of the Atlanteans, but their Myth Units are pretty decent and definitely stand up against the Greek, Egyptian and Norse counterparts.

When AoM:TT came out, the Atlantean MU that interested me the most was the Stymphalian Bird. The reason for this was in Vanilla AoM (apart from the Nidhogg) the only other flying unit with an attack was the Phoenix. As useful as they are, the other flying MUs (Pegasus, Ravens and Roc) never really interested me. Nidhogg and the Phoenix ruled the skies

Now they've not only added a flying healer, the Caladria, but also a bird with a ranged attack: The Stymphalian Bird. Luckily for the Norse, they can now research the Axe of Muspell Tech making it slightly easier for them to fight flying units.. And if that wasn't enough, a Phoenix Egg now only has 300HP compared to the 1000 it had previously.

With the Phoenix weaker (and let's face it, they were never that strong anyway) it left me with only one flying unit that I would actually consider using aggressively.

And recently, I massed these Birds, and I was quite surprised at how well they did.

Here's their stats:

Cost: 180 Wood, 50 Gold, 25 Favour, 4 Pop spaces
HP: 400 Hack armour: 15%
Speed: 3.60 Pierce armour: 30%
Range: 15 Pierce damage: 11

Notes: 3x Bonus vs MUs, 0.25 vs Heroes. Fires three razor-blade arrows each time it attacks. No MU specific upgrades available.

So in general, much like the Phoenix - Slow, expensive, low armour. Interestingly, even the same HP. But unlike the Phoenix, it has a ranged attack, which is the key to its strength.

Well it's all very well knowing a unit's stats, but that doesn't show how it performs in real-game situations.
Let's just see how long it takes to kill a hoplite.

NOTE: All human and hero units used in the tests have Medium upgrades, Heavy upgrades, Copper armoury upgrades and Bronze armoury upgrades. MU' upgrades will be stated.
All attack rates are tested per hit, not second. However, Stymphalian Bird attacks approximately every 1 second.

Test 1: 1 Stymphalian Bird vs 1 Zeus Hoplite.

Hoplite stats:
HP: 143 Hack armour: 47%
Speed: 4.70 Pierce armour: 31%
Hack damage: 11

Stymphalian Bird does approximately 27 damage to Hoplite per hit
Hoplite dies in 10 seconds. (without moving)

Unsurprisingly, the SB doesn't have 100% accuracy like the Petsuchos, and so sometimes one or two of the razor blades does not hit the hoplite. The graphics are deceptive.

From this test we can see that infantry are no problem to SBs, and have no real hope of surviving if attacked by a flock. Obviously ranged units are a much better option.

Test 2: 1 Stymphalian Bird vs 5 Isis Slingers

Slinger stats:
HP: 91 Hack armour: 31%
Speed: 4.00 Pierce armour: 35%
Pierce damage: 5

Stymphalian Bird does approximately 26 damage to 1 slinger per hit.
1 slinger does 4 damage to Stymphalian Bird per hit.

Stymphalian Bird takes 38 seconds to kill all 5 slingers and has 10 HP left.

Hmmmm, even against weak archers like slingers the Stymphalian Bird does pretty badly. My advice: keep the SB's away from large groups of ANY ranged units; they're too expensive to waste like that.

During these tests, I found out that the SB does a small amount of splash damage sometimes when it attacks. By small I mean 4. And it is VERY rare for it to do splash damage. So unlike the Manticore, it is better to micro the SB to the units you want as the splash damage it may do in groups is very small.

The other thing I found was about the SB's accuracy; not nearly as good as the Petsuchos' 100%, but much better than the Manticore. I'd say probably 65-75% of all attacks managed to hit their target. But unlike the Manticore, the hits that missed usually did not hit another unit causing splash damage.

This makes the SB very useful in some ways, but quite irritating in others. The "lost" hits don't even do any damage to other units, and just disspear into the ground.

Anyway, following this "accuracy" investigation, I decided to test how accurate the SB was against moving units.

Test 3: 1 Stymphalian Bird vs 1 Thor Raiding Cavalry

RC Stats:

HP: 131 Hack armour: 35%
Speed: 6.00 Pierce armour: 47%
Hack damage: 11

SB does approximately 16 damage to RC when still
Cannot hit when moving

Hmmmm, not great against moving units.
Like the Wadjet and other ranged MUs, the SB has trouble against fast units like cavalry and fast MUs

From more tests involving Anubites running in circles and a very dizzy Bird, I discovered that the Stymphalian Bird cannot hit units with a speed equal to or faster than 5.00

This is not really a surprise, but it means that the Birds are definitely better against infantry and archers, particularly infantry when they're engaged in battle.

Another surprise to find was that the Stymphalian Bird defeats every single Heroic MU 1 on 1. Obviously, the non ranged units don't stand a chance, but it also beats all other unupgraded heroic MUs.

The only Heroic Mu it is defeated against is a Petsuchos with the Crocodopolis upgrade. In my tests, I found that the extra range helped, but also the bird was a little inaccurate, so it could win if you're lucky.

Unfortunately, it's not invincible. The SB dies to 1: Arcus Hero, Turma Hero, Heroic Pharoah, Heroic Priest and Greek ranged hero one on one. Not surprisingly as they're heroes, but still not too shabby against other units.

Further Notes:

Stymphalian Birds are not affected by:
Medusa Stone Gaze
Perseus Stone Gaze

Stymphalian Birds ARE affected by:
Mummy's Minion Change
Lampades Chaos

And the moment you've all been waiting for - 1 Stymphalian Bird vs 1 Phoenix. Heroic MU vs Mythic MU.....

*sigh* The Atlanteans rule all. The Stymphalian Bird wins with EASE. Not even close. I feel for the Phoenix, it's the ranged attack that really let's the SB do it's job well.

Suggested Usage:

The Stymphalian Bird, being ranged and flying, has many uses. Support, siege, raiding and scouting all work, but I feel that the SBs best usage is the support infantry, archers and cavalry during large battles. If your opponent focuses all their ranged units on the Birds, then you could swipe them up with regular units by using them as a meatshield.
Saying that, massed they are very powerful, and by attacking infantry units with them, it will only suffer attack from ranged units who must come closer towards it (once again, the SB's range comes into play), which will leave your troops to eat up the archers.
Another suggestion is raiding, although slow, they're quite handy against large numbers of villies, mining for example. Only raid with them if you're sure they won't be attacked by ranged heroes or towers.

Conclusion:

Stymphalian Birds are powerful, don't let their stats fool you. Although expensive in terms of resources and pop, they're massive attack makes up for it - sure 11 may not seem too much, but times it by 3 and you have a strong unit. Have 5 of them and you have a formidable army.

Against Greece: Very plausible - just keep them away from Odysseus, Hippolyta and Chiron.
Against Egypt: Bad idea, those Priests will take it down in no time at all.
Against Norse: Yep, good - watch out for Axe of Muspell, Ballistae and Fire Giants though.
Against Alantis: hmmmmm, not such a good idea. massed hero turmas will be the end of your birds. If there are no turmae around, go for it, just don't be surprised when they arrive.

In general, I was surprised with the Stymphalian Bird; in the editor tests and in game. Much better than I expected, and fun to mass. The sight of them sniping off pesky hoplites is worth their high cost IMO.

Because Rheia and Hyperion's GPs aren't that great, it's likely more and more people will be going Theia and getting Stymphalian Birds.

Whether there are 1, or 10 of them, they'll be flying around, killing Phoenixes and squarking about it too.

EDIT: Which Atlantean Myth Unit would you like me to cover for my next Guide? The mysterious Lampades? The bizarre Dryad? Or maybe the juggernaut Heka-Gigantes? The MU with the most votes will feature in my Atlantean Myth Unit guide next Saturday


ESO user name - ChimeraArtemis
Rating - 1662
Favourite Major Gods - Isis, Gaia, Hades, Loki

Creator of the Egyptian Myth Unit Guides - Phoenix, Wadjet, Scorpion Man, Scarab
And the Atlantean Myth Unit Guides: Stymphalian Bird, Satyr, Lampades Heka-Gigantes, Man O'War

[This message has been edited by ArtemisChimera (edited 01-18-2004 @ 04:20 AM).]

Replies:
posted 17 January 2004 11:06 PM EDT (US)     26 / 71  
Argus would be interesting to see because of their capability to instantly kill any unit in the game, besides heros. But thanks ArtemisChimera, your guides are always the highlight of my evening. great information as always and i'll look forward to the next one, hopefully on argi.

Official Brotha of the NMA!
posted 18 January 2004 03:50 AM EDT (US)     27 / 71  
I vote heka-gigantis, the only MU that can use its special attack on heros

Glorfindel -Age of Mythology Heaven
My site Runescape- Awsome Online game! The new 3d verson has been released. My RS name is Tartariandog! My forums Best design team ever!
Eso rates/names= Tartariandog-1600, PW_Glorfindel_- 1556, PW_Glorfindel__-1600.
Winner of the most underated forumer award!

posted 18 January 2004 04:17 AM EDT (US)     28 / 71  
Thanks again guys

Promethean -
Caladria -
Servant -
Carnivora -
Automaton - 1
Satyr - 2
Behemoth -
Dryad - 2
Argus - 3
Heka-Gigantes - 4
Lampades - 2

Looks like those brutes are winning.


ESO user name - ChimeraArtemis
Rating - 1662
Favourite Major Gods - Isis, Gaia, Hades, Loki

Creator of the Egyptian Myth Unit Guides - Phoenix, Wadjet, Scorpion Man, Scarab
And the Atlantean Myth Unit Guides: Stymphalian Bird, Satyr, Lampades Heka-Gigantes, Man O'War

posted 18 January 2004 04:20 AM EDT (US)     29 / 71  
I VOTE ARGUS!
posted 18 January 2004 04:51 AM EDT (US)     30 / 71  
great guide, I'd vote for Satyrs next since they only cost wood and are usefull when you're out of gold for turma spamming
posted 18 January 2004 05:59 AM EDT (US)     31 / 71  
Nice guide, but I found this phrase confusing:

Quote:

But unlike the Phoenix, it has a ranged attack, which is the key to its strength.

You make this distinction throughout your article and it caught my eye every time. In AOMTT, units are either ranged or not. A unit that is not ranged generally does hack damage, and has to be in contact- or very near- the unit it's attacking. The Phoenix flies, so its attack must be ranged. Granted the Phoenix- like the Nighogg, only has a shoot down capability, unlike the Stymphalian Bird (SB) which can shoot slightly offset to its target. But all three have ranged attack. Perhaps a better phrase would be that the SB has greater range than the others? Just a thought.

posted 18 January 2004 06:21 AM EDT (US)     32 / 71  
^^ hmmmm, interesting thought tbarak.

Even though the Phoenix flies, it doesn't "officially" have a ranged attack. It's range is the same as a Hoplite or Avenger, 0. Saying that, I suppose you could count them as ranged because they fly, but that's because they are unique units.

Also, the Phoenix doesn't actually do any pierce damage, only Crush and Hack. Same with the Niddhogg.

The only "range" the Phoenix and Nidhogg have is from the ground to them, which doesn't count as range in the game.

Interesting though


ESO user name - ChimeraArtemis
Rating - 1662
Favourite Major Gods - Isis, Gaia, Hades, Loki

Creator of the Egyptian Myth Unit Guides - Phoenix, Wadjet, Scorpion Man, Scarab
And the Atlantean Myth Unit Guides: Stymphalian Bird, Satyr, Lampades Heka-Gigantes, Man O'War

posted 18 January 2004 08:54 AM EDT (US)     33 / 71  
Nice Guide.

Go for the Satyr!

posted 18 January 2004 10:56 AM EDT (US)     34 / 71  
Nice Guide, those things are evil near gold mines, angels near Odysseus, hehehehe.

The Satyr is probably the most under-used atlantean mu or at least it comes pretty close between it and an argus. So I vote for it

posted 18 January 2004 02:46 PM EDT (US)     35 / 71  
Phoenix and Nidhogg have a range of 4 ... not much to make much difference, but that's their range.
posted 18 January 2004 08:27 PM EDT (US)     36 / 71  
good guide. I say go for Satyr's next. They're too badass to suck.
posted 18 January 2004 09:12 PM EDT (US)     37 / 71  
great guide, I myself would have to say that I really wanna know some more info on either nerids, heckta gigantes (prob. spelled wrong), satyr, lampades (really good when masses, enemy losses entire army and get to watch a battle), or maybe caladrias. (useful sometimes but suck other)

This post was not directed at any one person(s)


"how do you prove that we exist? Maybe we don't exist." Vivi
why does anything happen? because it wants to?
"god created idiots first, for practice, then he created school boards..." mark twain
"drink beer, buy art" glass at the Saint James art festival

[This message has been edited by Pyro_ff7 (edited 01-18-2004 @ 09:13 PM).]

posted 18 January 2004 10:00 PM EDT (US)     38 / 71  
Just curious, but how much does the splash damage of a phoenix affect the SB vs phoenix battle: for instance, if it were 5 SB vs 5 phoenixes, who woud win seeing that phoenixes would damage every SB with each shot.

I vote for the Saytr.

posted 18 January 2004 10:57 PM EDT (US)     39 / 71  

Quote:

I know that not everyone is a fan of the Atlanteans, but their Myth Units are pretty decent

Atlanteans have the best classical MU (promethean - costs only 70G + Favor, 3 pop, and moves fast for a classical siege unit) and the Stymphalian bird is probably the best Heroic MU (same attack as a Manticore 3 x 11P, flying unit, only 4 pop - compare phoenix).

I'd expect the bird to be patched. It should be 5 pop, and should not have an x3 bonus vs MUs, among other things.

The bird is excellent as is Theia's godpower - it's not surprising that most Oranos players will pick Theia over Hyperion.

The bird is only weak against Eggies (because they have ranged heroes / petsuchos). Norse have a real problem vs the bird because it outranges TAs and Axe of Muspell is fairly expensive.

An effective use of the bird is to sit on gold mines - look at KS_Josey_Wales' Oranos' recs.

Note though that the bird has a minimum range of 4 (so range is 4-15). That's why you always get the message "Stymphalian Bird is too close to fire" .

Still a very good guide. I'd like to see a guide on the Lampades next - it seems that no-one is quite sure about the precise effects of Asper blood (except that it adds some damage when the Lampades dies, like Carcinos/Scarab)

posted 19 January 2004 05:06 AM EDT (US)     40 / 71  
Good guide! I wasn't very impressed with the SB though. Even considering it is a flying unit, one would expect better results from a heroic age myth unit...

I would vote for the Satyr next!


[img]http://ratings.fearclan.net/amicus_curious,1.png[/img]
posted 19 January 2004 11:11 AM EDT (US)     41 / 71  
^^ Really? I was actually quite impressed.

Promethean -
Caladria -
Servant -
Carnivora -
Automaton - 1
Satyr - 7
Behemoth -
Dryad - 2
Argus - 3
Heka-Gigantes - 4
Lampades - 3

Looks like more people want to see the Satyr covered now. Keep on voting guys.

Also, I forgot to add the water MUs to the list, they're used SO often you see

Nereid - 1
Man-O-War -

InsertNameHere, I will run some tests to see 5 Phoenixes vs 5 SBs and post them back here.

EDIT: The results are pitiful. With no micro, all Phoenixes die before even killing one SB. With a little micro, they manage to kill 1 SB - and that's if they're lucky and the SBs miss a few times.
Truly pathetic, SBs totally destroy Phoenixes - very sad.


ESO user name - ChimeraArtemis
Rating - 1662
Favourite Major Gods - Isis, Gaia, Hades, Loki

Creator of the Egyptian Myth Unit Guides - Phoenix, Wadjet, Scorpion Man, Scarab
And the Atlantean Myth Unit Guides: Stymphalian Bird, Satyr, Lampades Heka-Gigantes, Man O'War

[This message has been edited by ArtemisChimera (edited 01-19-2004 @ 11:18 AM).]

posted 19 January 2004 07:18 PM EDT (US)     42 / 71  
yes dryads, I've been wondering what is a good way to use those. At first I tried to use them as siege, but i don't think they have crush damage and it takes them a while to bring down buildings. 5 of them could take down a TC but, at 750 gold its pretty expensive and I've also tried to use them for sneak attacks on villagers. Its fun to sneak a scout behind your enemy's town and have five of those guys beating on villagers in about 15 seconds, usually comes as a big suprise. Although considering that your enemy will probally take your tree this isn't maybe such a great idea either. Overall i think they are good because they only cost gold and they train really quick, but im still not sure what they are really good at. I don't think they are worth using if you aren't at your pop limit.
posted 19 January 2004 07:40 PM EDT (US)     43 / 71  
Caladria... The guide is one sentence: It heals, that's it, leave it above your army when you need healing.
posted 19 January 2004 09:06 PM EDT (US)     44 / 71  
You missed a vote on the Argus. They should be at 4. Now 5 cause I vote for 'em.

"War does not determine who is right, only who is left." - Bertrand Russell
"Things are more like they are now than they ever were before."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower
posted 19 January 2004 10:36 PM EDT (US)     45 / 71  
satyr

Official Brotha of the NMA!
posted 20 January 2004 04:51 AM EDT (US)     46 / 71  
Argus - a weird fellow, but do one on him. I think he may be the strongest atlantean MU including cost etc.

Btw. AC wrote: "No.... I did Egyptian ones because the Egyptian Myth Units are my favourite and I used to play with them most of the time.
And now I'm doing Atlanteans because I like their MUs.
The reason I haven't done Norse or Greek MUs is because I don't play Norse anymore, and the Greek ones are pretty basic."

Yes, in some way greek MUs are basic - but strong!

I am pretty sure that actually Norse and Greek MUs are the best in this game. For instance no eggy or atlantean MU has the attack and HP of Collosus, Mountain Giant or even Chimera.



AOM - ESO: 1950+ using mainly Isis, Odin and Set
TT - ESO: 1750+ using mainly Isis, Oranos and Kronos
posted 20 January 2004 02:26 PM EDT (US)     47 / 71  

Quote:

Yes, in some way greek MUs are basic - but strong!

Absolutely agree. The Greek MUs are definitely the strongest, followed by the Norse. Eggy's are still extremely powerful, just not as "strong" as Norse or Greek.
As for the Atlanteans, you'll just have to wait and see how strong they REALLY are

Update on poll:

Promethean -
Caladria - 1
Servant -
Carnivora -
Automaton - 1
Satyr - 8
Nereid - 1
Behemoth -
Dryad - 3
Argus - 6
Heka-Gigantes - 4
Man-O-War -
Lampades - 3


ESO user name - ChimeraArtemis
Rating - 1662
Favourite Major Gods - Isis, Gaia, Hades, Loki

Creator of the Egyptian Myth Unit Guides - Phoenix, Wadjet, Scorpion Man, Scarab
And the Atlantean Myth Unit Guides: Stymphalian Bird, Satyr, Lampades Heka-Gigantes, Man O'War

posted 20 January 2004 03:28 PM EDT (US)     48 / 71  
The birds are op vs norse, no any doubth about it, because thery fly, ta's do crap vs them and they do pierce damage.
Benjamin

Creator of the plenty article
Creator of the odin fast herioc guide
Creator of the The nereid guide
In progress: the scylla guide
posted 20 January 2004 03:33 PM EDT (US)     49 / 71  
Oh good guide.I thought it could be another crappy copy stats guide,but this one is different.

Good job man.

posted 20 January 2004 03:38 PM EDT (US)     50 / 71  
Oh, btw i prefer a guide about the argus. Thx to do these guides .
Benjamin

Creator of the plenty article
Creator of the odin fast herioc guide
Creator of the The nereid guide
In progress: the scylla guide

[This message has been edited by FunClan_zero (edited 01-20-2004 @ 03:40 PM).]

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