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Topic Subject: A Guide to the Stymphalian Bird
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posted 17 January 2004 01:40 PM EDT (US)   
A Guide to the Stymphalian Bird

Following my Egyptian Myth Unit Guides last year, I'm going to keep up to date with the new Atlantean Myth Unit Guides.

Now, I know that not everyone is a fan of the Atlanteans, but their Myth Units are pretty decent and definitely stand up against the Greek, Egyptian and Norse counterparts.

When AoM:TT came out, the Atlantean MU that interested me the most was the Stymphalian Bird. The reason for this was in Vanilla AoM (apart from the Nidhogg) the only other flying unit with an attack was the Phoenix. As useful as they are, the other flying MUs (Pegasus, Ravens and Roc) never really interested me. Nidhogg and the Phoenix ruled the skies

Now they've not only added a flying healer, the Caladria, but also a bird with a ranged attack: The Stymphalian Bird. Luckily for the Norse, they can now research the Axe of Muspell Tech making it slightly easier for them to fight flying units.. And if that wasn't enough, a Phoenix Egg now only has 300HP compared to the 1000 it had previously.

With the Phoenix weaker (and let's face it, they were never that strong anyway) it left me with only one flying unit that I would actually consider using aggressively.

And recently, I massed these Birds, and I was quite surprised at how well they did.

Here's their stats:

Cost: 180 Wood, 50 Gold, 25 Favour, 4 Pop spaces
HP: 400 Hack armour: 15%
Speed: 3.60 Pierce armour: 30%
Range: 15 Pierce damage: 11

Notes: 3x Bonus vs MUs, 0.25 vs Heroes. Fires three razor-blade arrows each time it attacks. No MU specific upgrades available.

So in general, much like the Phoenix - Slow, expensive, low armour. Interestingly, even the same HP. But unlike the Phoenix, it has a ranged attack, which is the key to its strength.

Well it's all very well knowing a unit's stats, but that doesn't show how it performs in real-game situations.
Let's just see how long it takes to kill a hoplite.

NOTE: All human and hero units used in the tests have Medium upgrades, Heavy upgrades, Copper armoury upgrades and Bronze armoury upgrades. MU' upgrades will be stated.
All attack rates are tested per hit, not second. However, Stymphalian Bird attacks approximately every 1 second.

Test 1: 1 Stymphalian Bird vs 1 Zeus Hoplite.

Hoplite stats:
HP: 143 Hack armour: 47%
Speed: 4.70 Pierce armour: 31%
Hack damage: 11

Stymphalian Bird does approximately 27 damage to Hoplite per hit
Hoplite dies in 10 seconds. (without moving)

Unsurprisingly, the SB doesn't have 100% accuracy like the Petsuchos, and so sometimes one or two of the razor blades does not hit the hoplite. The graphics are deceptive.

From this test we can see that infantry are no problem to SBs, and have no real hope of surviving if attacked by a flock. Obviously ranged units are a much better option.

Test 2: 1 Stymphalian Bird vs 5 Isis Slingers

Slinger stats:
HP: 91 Hack armour: 31%
Speed: 4.00 Pierce armour: 35%
Pierce damage: 5

Stymphalian Bird does approximately 26 damage to 1 slinger per hit.
1 slinger does 4 damage to Stymphalian Bird per hit.

Stymphalian Bird takes 38 seconds to kill all 5 slingers and has 10 HP left.

Hmmmm, even against weak archers like slingers the Stymphalian Bird does pretty badly. My advice: keep the SB's away from large groups of ANY ranged units; they're too expensive to waste like that.

During these tests, I found out that the SB does a small amount of splash damage sometimes when it attacks. By small I mean 4. And it is VERY rare for it to do splash damage. So unlike the Manticore, it is better to micro the SB to the units you want as the splash damage it may do in groups is very small.

The other thing I found was about the SB's accuracy; not nearly as good as the Petsuchos' 100%, but much better than the Manticore. I'd say probably 65-75% of all attacks managed to hit their target. But unlike the Manticore, the hits that missed usually did not hit another unit causing splash damage.

This makes the SB very useful in some ways, but quite irritating in others. The "lost" hits don't even do any damage to other units, and just disspear into the ground.

Anyway, following this "accuracy" investigation, I decided to test how accurate the SB was against moving units.

Test 3: 1 Stymphalian Bird vs 1 Thor Raiding Cavalry

RC Stats:

HP: 131 Hack armour: 35%
Speed: 6.00 Pierce armour: 47%
Hack damage: 11

SB does approximately 16 damage to RC when still
Cannot hit when moving

Hmmmm, not great against moving units.
Like the Wadjet and other ranged MUs, the SB has trouble against fast units like cavalry and fast MUs

From more tests involving Anubites running in circles and a very dizzy Bird, I discovered that the Stymphalian Bird cannot hit units with a speed equal to or faster than 5.00

This is not really a surprise, but it means that the Birds are definitely better against infantry and archers, particularly infantry when they're engaged in battle.

Another surprise to find was that the Stymphalian Bird defeats every single Heroic MU 1 on 1. Obviously, the non ranged units don't stand a chance, but it also beats all other unupgraded heroic MUs.

The only Heroic Mu it is defeated against is a Petsuchos with the Crocodopolis upgrade. In my tests, I found that the extra range helped, but also the bird was a little inaccurate, so it could win if you're lucky.

Unfortunately, it's not invincible. The SB dies to 1: Arcus Hero, Turma Hero, Heroic Pharoah, Heroic Priest and Greek ranged hero one on one. Not surprisingly as they're heroes, but still not too shabby against other units.

Further Notes:

Stymphalian Birds are not affected by:
Medusa Stone Gaze
Perseus Stone Gaze

Stymphalian Birds ARE affected by:
Mummy's Minion Change
Lampades Chaos

And the moment you've all been waiting for - 1 Stymphalian Bird vs 1 Phoenix. Heroic MU vs Mythic MU.....

*sigh* The Atlanteans rule all. The Stymphalian Bird wins with EASE. Not even close. I feel for the Phoenix, it's the ranged attack that really let's the SB do it's job well.

Suggested Usage:

The Stymphalian Bird, being ranged and flying, has many uses. Support, siege, raiding and scouting all work, but I feel that the SBs best usage is the support infantry, archers and cavalry during large battles. If your opponent focuses all their ranged units on the Birds, then you could swipe them up with regular units by using them as a meatshield.
Saying that, massed they are very powerful, and by attacking infantry units with them, it will only suffer attack from ranged units who must come closer towards it (once again, the SB's range comes into play), which will leave your troops to eat up the archers.
Another suggestion is raiding, although slow, they're quite handy against large numbers of villies, mining for example. Only raid with them if you're sure they won't be attacked by ranged heroes or towers.

Conclusion:

Stymphalian Birds are powerful, don't let their stats fool you. Although expensive in terms of resources and pop, they're massive attack makes up for it - sure 11 may not seem too much, but times it by 3 and you have a strong unit. Have 5 of them and you have a formidable army.

Against Greece: Very plausible - just keep them away from Odysseus, Hippolyta and Chiron.
Against Egypt: Bad idea, those Priests will take it down in no time at all.
Against Norse: Yep, good - watch out for Axe of Muspell, Ballistae and Fire Giants though.
Against Alantis: hmmmmm, not such a good idea. massed hero turmas will be the end of your birds. If there are no turmae around, go for it, just don't be surprised when they arrive.

In general, I was surprised with the Stymphalian Bird; in the editor tests and in game. Much better than I expected, and fun to mass. The sight of them sniping off pesky hoplites is worth their high cost IMO.

Because Rheia and Hyperion's GPs aren't that great, it's likely more and more people will be going Theia and getting Stymphalian Birds.

Whether there are 1, or 10 of them, they'll be flying around, killing Phoenixes and squarking about it too.

EDIT: Which Atlantean Myth Unit would you like me to cover for my next Guide? The mysterious Lampades? The bizarre Dryad? Or maybe the juggernaut Heka-Gigantes? The MU with the most votes will feature in my Atlantean Myth Unit guide next Saturday


ESO user name - ChimeraArtemis
Rating - 1662
Favourite Major Gods - Isis, Gaia, Hades, Loki

Creator of the Egyptian Myth Unit Guides - Phoenix, Wadjet, Scorpion Man, Scarab
And the Atlantean Myth Unit Guides: Stymphalian Bird, Satyr, Lampades Heka-Gigantes, Man O'War

[This message has been edited by ArtemisChimera (edited 01-18-2004 @ 04:20 AM).]

Replies:
posted 20 January 2004 03:41 PM EDT (US)     51 / 71  
Something I want to mention after reading the guide:
Stymphalian bird cant be used as siege(somewhere in the guide said use it as siege).The bird has no crush or hack damage.It's one of the best raiding unit,but not siege.

Stymphalian bird accuracy is pretty high.When I was complaining about the bird being too strong,some people said they miss alot.Actually it's not true.If the object is still,accuracy is 100%.If the object is moving with a sub 5.0 speed,the accuracy is high(sometimes all hit,sometimes 2 hit).When the object moving speed > 5.0,it misss all(all ranged unit except SoO and Petsucho is like that).

Stymphalian vs phoenix:
Stymphalian bird wins because it gets a *3 multiplier vs MU,while phoenix didnt get any.
If compare stymphalian bird vs human unit/building and phoenix vs human unit/building,you will find phoenix is better.

After all,I believe stymphalian bird is an overpowered unit.

posted 20 January 2004 03:42 PM EDT (US)     52 / 71  
I would like to see some comparation between Scarab,behomoth and colossus.
posted 20 January 2004 03:54 PM EDT (US)     53 / 71  
Automotons...

- Me
posted 20 January 2004 11:55 PM EDT (US)     54 / 71  
Nicely done!
And my vote is automaton

Weird people call for weird signatures.
posted 21 January 2004 03:31 AM EDT (US)     55 / 71  
Thanks again guys.

Quote:

Stymphalian bird cant be used as siege(somewhere in the guide said use it as siege).The bird has no crush or hack damage.It's one of the best raiding unit,but not siege

Absolutely right. Because they're ranged, some people may be tempted to use them against buildings. I did some tests and they're really terrible as seige. Use the phoenix for that.

Quote:

If the object is still,accuracy is 100%

In a way that's true. If the unit is still, then the bird will always hit the unit with at least 1 razor blade. However, not all razor blades will hit that unit, so in some ways it does not have 100% accuracy.

I suppose the Stymphalian Bird is overpowered, and considering that Theia is in most ways stronger than Hyperion and Rheia, it might make her the new Nephthys if nothing's done.

Promethean -
Caladria - 1
Servant -
Carnivora -
Automaton - 3
Satyr - 8
Nereid - 1
Behemoth - 1
Dryad - 3
Argus - 7
Heka-Gigantes - 4
Man-O-War -
Lampades - 3


ESO user name - ChimeraArtemis
Rating - 1662
Favourite Major Gods - Isis, Gaia, Hades, Loki

Creator of the Egyptian Myth Unit Guides - Phoenix, Wadjet, Scorpion Man, Scarab
And the Atlantean Myth Unit Guides: Stymphalian Bird, Satyr, Lampades Heka-Gigantes, Man O'War

posted 21 January 2004 05:07 PM EDT (US)     56 / 71  
I liked tid a lot very informative
and my vote is Heka-Gigantes
posted 21 January 2004 06:29 PM EDT (US)     57 / 71  
Get ready to curse me to hell ... because I think one should be done on the ... .Argus (and no, I did not tie it on purpose)
posted 21 January 2004 06:31 PM EDT (US)     58 / 71  
Awesum Chimera like always. GJ. Pleazed 2 have met u.

Seriously I VOTE PROMMIES. u dont tell about them . U flame themlike in my anthem. im JK.

I vote satyrs to give them the lead


ESO:core4score, Lg_CORE
RATING IN TT: 1700+
Member of Legend Clan

[This message has been edited by core4scoreormore (edited 01-21-2004 @ 06:35 PM).]

posted 21 January 2004 07:49 PM EDT (US)     59 / 71  
Hmm. To me I would like the Heka-Gigantes. You don't have to do it pal, but it would be cool.

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Foreign tourist meat is good.
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Dont run from your fears and sorrows.
Drown em in soda
posted 21 January 2004 10:14 PM EDT (US)     60 / 71  
Lampades. They're just a really cool unit.

And yes, stymphs are overpowered, when you consider that Hesp tree is awesome (it would be great even if it had only one charge and didn't block GPs!), Phoenixes are awful, and the Nidhogg is the worst Mythic GP in the game.

[This message has been edited by jwj442 (edited 01-21-2004 @ 10:15 PM).]

posted 22 January 2004 00:29 AM EDT (US)     61 / 71  
Great job! I vote lampades.

One day, I was sitting in the park wondering why the frisbee was getting bigger. And then it hit me...
ESO: NoFx__Genesis, HellsPoloTeam, DeathByAutopsy
posted 22 January 2004 00:32 AM EDT (US)     62 / 71  
LAPADES ALL THE WAY! satyr=homo

AOM Titan Info.
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ESO : Blunt_69 aka CV_KiNGPiN
posted 22 January 2004 03:00 AM EDT (US)     63 / 71  
Promethean -
Caladria - 1
Servant -
Carnivora -
Automaton - 3
Satyr - 9
Nereid - 1
Behemoth - 1
Dryad - 3
Argus - 8
Heka-Gigantes - 6
Man-O-War -
Lampades - 6

Thanks again guys, close race.

And I agree, something needs to be done about the birds, considering that Theia has much better techs and GP, she's probably used more often.

Also, they complete own Titans.


ESO user name - ChimeraArtemis
Rating - 1662
Favourite Major Gods - Isis, Gaia, Hades, Loki

Creator of the Egyptian Myth Unit Guides - Phoenix, Wadjet, Scorpion Man, Scarab
And the Atlantean Myth Unit Guides: Stymphalian Bird, Satyr, Lampades Heka-Gigantes, Man O'War

posted 22 January 2004 11:44 PM EDT (US)     64 / 71  
I think you should do a guide on th Augus. They're ALMOST the most "mythic" myth unit in the game (I said almost)
Great post!

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The world is futile enough!

posted 23 January 2004 03:23 AM EDT (US)     65 / 71  
i vote servant

curious little buggers

posted 23 January 2004 10:38 PM EDT (US)     66 / 71  
Chimera - I think you added 1 satyr too much. From your two last updates you have added 1 satyr but none of the people wanted to see the satyr done..

Only one mentioend it and he wanted to see the Lampades, but wrote Satyr=home... shouldn't count in favor of satyr I guess.. lol

posted 23 January 2004 10:40 PM EDT (US)     67 / 71  
And btw. I vote Argus - the strongest atlantean MU I think..

so i guess it makes it:

Promethean -
Caladria - 1
Servant - 1 (added one)
Carnivora -
Automaton - 3
Satyr - 8 (minus 1)
Nereid - 1
Behemoth - 1
Dryad - 3
Argus - 10 (added 2)
Heka-Gigantes - 6
Man-O-War -
Lampades - 6

posted 24 January 2004 10:52 AM EDT (US)     68 / 71  
Actually Dominique, these are the final results:

Promethean -
Caladria - 1
Servant - 1
Carnivora -
Automaton - 3
Satyr - 10
Nereid - 1
Behemoth - 1
Dryad - 3
Argus - 10
Heka-Gigantes - 6
Man-O-War -
Lampades - 6

You, like me, miscounted.

This makes it a tie, and the first vote for either Satyr or Argus will swing the result.

Be quick guys, I have to do this guide pretty soon before the forum party

EDIT: I have triple checked the results, I don't think I have missed anyone's vote. Remember that I take each person's first REAL vote.


ESO user name - ChimeraArtemis
Rating - 1662
Favourite Major Gods - Isis, Gaia, Hades, Loki

Creator of the Egyptian Myth Unit Guides - Phoenix, Wadjet, Scorpion Man, Scarab
And the Atlantean Myth Unit Guides: Stymphalian Bird, Satyr, Lampades Heka-Gigantes, Man O'War

[This message has been edited by ArtemisChimera (edited 01-24-2004 @ 10:53 AM).]

posted 24 January 2004 10:53 AM EDT (US)     69 / 71  
Satyr!!

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Current Project: Becoming the Number 1
posted 24 January 2004 10:56 AM EDT (US)     70 / 71  
There ya go, Satyr it is then

ESO user name - ChimeraArtemis
Rating - 1662
Favourite Major Gods - Isis, Gaia, Hades, Loki

Creator of the Egyptian Myth Unit Guides - Phoenix, Wadjet, Scorpion Man, Scarab
And the Atlantean Myth Unit Guides: Stymphalian Bird, Satyr, Lampades Heka-Gigantes, Man O'War

posted 24 January 2004 11:46 AM EDT (US)     71 / 71  
I definitely vote Promethean or Argus, but since proms dont have a chance ill make it ARGUS!

Keep rockin' Chimara!

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