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Topic Subject:Atlantean thoughts
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BalanceFX
Mortal
posted 21 September 2004 11:00 AM EDT (US)         
Gaia

Strengths:

  • Great booming capibilities.
  • Most defensive of the atlantean gods. Forested towers + Carnivora or Spider Mines allows for a fast heroic strategy normally with little or no troops.
  • Best economic choice. With all economic upgrades being cheaper you can get them sooner and easily out resource your opponant. Gaia's woods ALSO harvest faster with no upgrades making here ideal for wood heavy strats.
  • Tartarian Gate that heals itself is amazing. (If it does) Also can research Myth Regeneration granting her a titan that can hit and run to recover hps.

    Weaknesses:

  • SLOW starter. She needs to get her economic bonuses early or a second town center to really take advantage of her bonus.
  • Decent raiding will take away her early bonus.
  • Raiding is limited to Automation/Murmillo or Turmas. All are poor raiders under Gaia with Turmas being the best choice.
  • Most of her advantages: Trade carts, fishing ships have more hps/Lush/Autohealing building are for all intents and purposes, useless.
  • Channels allows villagers to move faster, but since Atlantean villagers dont move much to begin with this is generally useless.


    Oranos:
    Strengths:

  • All Human soldiers move faster. This is and excellent advantage. It allows turmas to be fantastic cheeseball raiders. Early game your Oracles get to where they need to be faster.
  • Between faster oracles and LOS to all Expansion town centers Oranos easily has the best Archiac scouting in the game. It is on par with greek scouting but not quite as good as Odin Classical scouting.
  • Shockwave. Devastating Archaic power. While easily defended against by putting your troops in a spread formation, few players do that. Shockwave can also disrupt a town center and allow your troops to kill the peons building it in a pinch, if your lucky.
  • Can take VALOR. A Huge weakness all atties have is vrs Myth. Valor mitigates that.
  • Sky passages. While generally not used it does have some fantastic uses. Destroyers are slow, Fire Siphons are slow. This can be used to move them quickly. This can allow Oranos to defend 1 location at a time with ALL of their troops and quickly switch back and forth.
  • Can take Helios. Helios allows you to make the best Siege in the game hands down. With 2 Mythic techs and a Regular tech for your fire siphons your siege is tougher and does an amazing amount of damage quickly. Helios also grants the power to teleport your troops. See a titan gate going up. Get LOS (Usually a contrarius is great for this, with speed and durability to get there.) Click teleport drop a few four armed buggers, some fanatics, some destroyers and 5 super fire sypons and that Titan gate is history.
    Weaknesses:
  • No notable economic/military upgrades.
  • Mythic tech affects Safe passages only and allows for essentially a weak tower.
  • Predictable early game.

    Kronos:
    Strengths:

  • Can teleport buildings. I often reorg my town occasionally to keep my enemy guessing. I normally build LOTS of Barracks and counter barracks to teleport as walls where I need them.
  • Deconstruct + Prometheans + Valor allows for a great Classical rush. If your forward base gets attacked simply move all your building back home.
  • Cheaper siege! Great bonus vrs infantry heavy civs.
  • Cheaper Myth Units! A great break in cost for myth units.
  • Can take VALOR. A Huge weakness all atties have is vrs Myth. Valor mitigates that.
  • Can take Helios. Helios allows you to make the best Siege in the game hands down. With 2 Mythic techs and a Regular tech for your fire siphons your siege is tougher and does an amazing amount of damage quickly. Helios also grants the power to teleport your troops. See a titan gate going up. Get LOS (Usually a contrarius is great for this, with speed and durability to get there.) Click teleport drop a few four armed buggers, some fanatics, some destroyers and 5 super fire sypons and that Titan gate is history.
    Weaknesses:
  • Mythic Tech helps Oracles move faster and see faster. Generally useless for the cost.
  • No economic bonuses.
  • Can't Take Hekate. This means Kronos is the only Attie without a regenerating titan, No Tart Gate which is considered one of the stronger Mythic god powers allowing you to both destroy buildings and release a virtually never ending assault at the targetted location.
  • Can't take Thei. So Kronos has no way to block God powers when building his titan gate. Can't get the five extra overpop Dryads which have the potential to change so many battles for atties. (Which is really to bad because they'd be cheaper under Kronos)

    So theres my random Attie thoughts for the day. Oranos far and away looks like the best attie god 2 me, but I think we all already knew that.

  • AuthorReplies:
    Etendorf
    Mortal
    posted 24 September 2004 03:53 PM EDT (US)     51 / 109       
    Turma's are super effective raiders. The whole focus fire thing does alot better than melee unit because they end up really killing something, and can escape attack much easier when not cluttered among a bunch of villies.

    Nobody can raid as well as Oranos.

    Nick: Eten.
    Gods: All of them!
    Vanilla.
    Carwash_II
    Mortal
    posted 24 September 2004 03:54 PM EDT (US)     52 / 109       
    ^^bs...if you think raiding with turma takes just as much skill as raiding with rc or using the centaur strangle you must be an idiot. Also your under the delusion that because im isis i hate atties. You know what they say...if you dont hate atties you must be playing them .If i was any god id hate atties.....even moreso.
    Pwned
    Mortal
    (id: You_Are_Pwned)
    posted 24 September 2004 04:17 PM EDT (US)     53 / 109       
    That's his point, you only hate Atties because that's the only civ Isis has problems beating.

    And Isis is the best god by a long way. It's my belief that if every player practised with Isis they would improve their rat by 50-100 points (excluding experts). PLaying Isis is not hard, Norse and to a lesser extent Greek are the civs that take most skill to play.

    [This message has been edited by You_Are_Pwned (edited 09-24-2004 @ 04:21 PM).]

    Carwash_II
    Mortal
    posted 24 September 2004 04:50 PM EDT (US)     54 / 109       
    ^^well his point is bs then.Why the @#$% would i not hate atties if i played zeus for instance lol.
    BalanceFX
    Mortal
    posted 24 September 2004 05:51 PM EDT (US)     55 / 109       
    Because All atties even with Valor are weak vrs Myth and Zeus in paticalur has an easy time with Atties. Did you not read the ville rush posted in this thread? Its virtually unbeatable in the rating your talking about.

    Now not the smartest move for zeus, hoplite rush at 6:30 7:00 is near impossible to defend against unless your opponant was massing cheiros...

    Zeus can mass myth easily. Make some hippokins to deal with raiding turma. (And raid with them) While you mass Hoplites and your two heroes. When your get 20 hops, 2 Minotaurs then just attack. Hopefully they will advance under thei and you get a free tree while your there...

    Really Atties are a piece of cake for Zeus/Posidedon.

    Carwash_II
    Mortal
    posted 24 September 2004 08:50 PM EDT (US)     56 / 109       
    ^^wow now enlighten me...how the hell do you propose a zeus hop rush when attie start to turma raid you at the 5 min mark????People have said that even isis has a hard time defending against an early turma raid...so how does zeus fair?horribly...know your facts before making a fool out of yourself .
    Bigsid
    Mortal
    posted 25 September 2004 06:13 AM EDT (US)     57 / 109       
    Wonder which game you ve been playing mr balance....greeks having an easy time vs attie?? rofl Your talking about one of the biggest imbalances in the game. Atties owns zeus + possie sooo hard on non fishing maps. Hades' defensive gameplay vs attie's crappy siege gives hades a bigger change but its still an unfair match up.

    20 hoplites + 2 mino's? You must be on a heavy hunting map... guess what the attie player has an army twice as fast so round the 5 minute mark you will be forced from hunting. No hunting means no hoplite spam.

    Best chance for greek is playing defensive, raid, forward tc + semi fh.

    About the attie hating: although attie takes far less skill to play then any other civ it still isnt a piece of cake to get 1800+. But still.... i can play like crap with attie... sucky micro and all and still win vs a strong opponent.

    [This message has been edited by Bigsid (edited 09-25-2004 @ 06:22 AM).]

    Fenris77
    Mortal
    posted 25 September 2004 11:37 AM EDT (US)     58 / 109       
    They will have a bigger army but not a counter for hoplites. You can't train 10 cheiroballista by 5 minutes unless you advance at 3:30 and even then you won't have many recourses.

    Rating: 1750

    Check out my Bellerophon Guide and my Myrmidon Guide

    Member of the TpC_ Clan
    BalanceFX
    Mortal
    posted 25 September 2004 03:13 PM EDT (US)     59 / 109       

    Quote:

    ^^wow now enlighten me...how the hell do you propose a zeus hop rush when attie start to turma raid you at the 5 min mark????People have said that even isis has a hard time defending against an early turma raid...so how does zeus fair?horribly...know your facts before making a fool out of yourself

    There some recorded games in this thread of Zeus beating atties. I am playing greeks right now (Random Greeks) and dont have any problems with atties.... They are pretty easy actually. I think overall Posideon is the weakest vrs Atties. But heres a low game... like 1600 or something of Zeus vrs Attie: http://www.whatisthedot.com/replay/1600LucantropusVrsAttiepro.rcx You can see a great Attie rush thrown back by Zeus Strong and numerous myth units....

    See your going into each game thinking Atties are OP and unstoppable and its really just false. I see them as pretty weak, not even the pros use them. Last night I was playing Hades and I spent some archiac gold on building some walls. Then I went raiding with mostly hops, backed by like 4 horsies and 10 or so archers and my 2 heros and all my myth. Yeah he had tons of turmas beating on my palisade wall but he had to recall them home for defense. Remember if your back on your heels succombing to enemy raiders... then your not raiding enough yourself.

    Anyways watch that game I thought it was coo

    Carwash_II
    Mortal
    posted 25 September 2004 04:27 PM EDT (US)     60 / 109       
    ^^first off he was gaia which doesnt really count as the atties im talking about (oranos/kronos). Also, that was the weakest most pathetic rush ive ever seen by an attie...Didnt get to classical around 5:45...and didnt attack until much later.On top of that the greek player sucked to because that attie attacked really really late and the greek player still didnt have hops to defend for a while.If the greek player faced a real attie advance time and rush he wouldve been died long ago.(also that attie player was a moron because he was attacking in tc/tower fire the whole time...(a real attie advance time is actually 3:30 or 4:30...with a strong eco)

    [This message has been edited by Carwash_II (edited 09-25-2004 @ 04:29 PM).]

    BalanceFX
    Mortal
    posted 25 September 2004 06:06 PM EDT (US)     61 / 109       
    Dude Gaia is an Attie. And if Atties are so OP why are you not 2k with them eh?

    Second... Why dont you post some games of Attie Turma Rush being OP... You have done alot of mouthing off and talking in this forum but you have nothing solid except your opinion which is you think Atties are OP. Well Good 4 U, that doesnt make it so.

    Bigsid
    Mortal
    posted 25 September 2004 06:20 PM EDT (US)     62 / 109       
    Even if u make no cheiro's at all you would still own. First of all attie can attack early... too early for greek. 4.30 advance and still have 3 barracks pumping non stop with insane training times is too much for greek. Youll be forced in to the defensive from 4.30 up
    no time to mass anything especailly if u cant hunt.
    If u whant to spam MU's u need at least 3 "prayers". If u advance early to match attie advance times u need all the gatherers u have for res.

    BTW: Fenriss.... whats your TPC name? I thought i knew all 1750+ TPCers? But i could be wrong....

    Im round the 1800 mark btw (eso name TOAO_Lisciare)

    BalanceFX
    Mortal
    posted 25 September 2004 06:20 PM EDT (US)     63 / 109       
    ex_Hopes comments on the game's balance:

    Quote:

    Atty classic is strong but not really dominant, kronos rush is uncommon. FT isn't what it used to be and isn't really too hard to stop.

    In rated you'll find isis FH and greek booms the most potent.

    I think it's pretty well balanced, a few strong tactics, but nothing unbeatable imo.

    For this thread: http://www.rtscentral.com/readTopic.asp?PostingId=1643511

    BalanceFX
    Mortal
    posted 25 September 2004 07:42 PM EDT (US)     64 / 109       
    http://www.whatisthedot.com/replay/juggs.rcx

    Another example of Turma raiding and Fast Titan being not all its cracked up to be....

    Carwash_II
    Mortal
    posted 26 September 2004 00:23 AM EDT (US)     65 / 109       
    ^^im not even gonna bother watching this game because your last one was just pathetic. If you think raiding attie raiding is considered fast with a 5:45 advance to classical you know nothing. You also think zeus is strong against attie which yet again proves you know nothing. Stop defending your civ and just admit that attie is was to OP in the 1600-1720 range.
    BalanceFX
    Mortal
    posted 26 September 2004 00:27 AM EDT (US)     66 / 109       
    read the thread, watch the games, I'm going to go back to playing. You've provided zero proof, not a single game, and just hate playing atties.

    I will concede again that you think turma raiding is OP. It still doesn't make it true.

    Carwash_II
    Mortal
    posted 26 September 2004 00:44 AM EDT (US)     67 / 109       
    ^^and what proof have you provided???Everything youve said just makes you look like you know nothing.And the games you uploaded, particulary the first one, are just crap. I would explain why i think they suck but theres no point because you actually seem to think they are decent and illustrate your points when in fact they do not. and the second game...did not have early turma raiding im talking about and the ft your talking about is non-existant. (im sorry 30 min. into the game doesnt qualify as a FT)Also, that attie player had no military upgrades the whole game(besides first line armory) and he still managed to hang in the game for 40 min...The attie player made so many mistakes it was ridiculous...such as heroizing turma to combat colussus...Also,look at 13 min mark or so and look at their ecos...Greek is running on practically nothing...if the attie player decided to build something other then turmas at the beginning (murmillo), it would have been over faster then you could say "OP!"

    [This message has been edited by Carwash_II (edited 09-26-2004 @ 01:02 AM).]

    BalanceFX
    Mortal
    posted 26 September 2004 02:32 AM EDT (US)     68 / 109       
    If the Attie goes Murmillos, you spam myth and archers and use Ceasefire to pull of a FH. Myth for Turmas, Archers for murms...

    In heroic you build a castle and utilize range siege and build counters to whatever the silly attie made.

    Btw: I love your critique of juggs game. The kid is like a 1700-1800 player and so is his attie opponant and your dictating that their style doesnt work?

    Dude if this game was won by running your mouth you'd be 2k by now.

    Bigsid
    Mortal
    posted 26 September 2004 05:32 AM EDT (US)     69 / 109       
    Mr balance. First of your quoting hope....hes talking about the situation in the top 100... which is totally different from your situation. Totally different skilllevel and playstyle so.... not even close to comparable.

    First of almost no expert player uses attie. Why? Not because there so weak.... no because there so lame, boring and easy to use(less micro, more room for mistakes) Next to that hes talking about the overall situation... NOT the situation attie vs greek. Every expert knows this matchup is unbalanced....just go in to expert chat and give them your thoughts about this and ill bet they'l just laugh at you.

    There are some exeptions: watermaps and if you get lucky with your tc food, gold placement and overalll layout of defensive maps like alfheim, wateringhole.

    BTW: check Juggs game vs Live4_cheveau.... rofl live4 oranos vs juggs'possy. No chance in hell he was gonna win this. Open map with this matchup means death for greek player.

    [This message has been edited by Bigsid (edited 09-26-2004 @ 05:43 AM).]

    Bigsid
    Mortal
    posted 26 September 2004 06:28 AM EDT (US)     70 / 109       
    I watched the rec....mr balance you profided the proof yourselve. Did you even watched the rec yourselve? This game is one of the biggest proof of an imbalance there is. How can somebody who micro's so poorly be on top for so long? If you have like 5000 wood and next to no food after like 10 minutes you dont deserve to be on the winning side. Ask yourselve what would happen if you micro like this with greek. Next to that he did nothing with his resources/(while he had thousands!!!)next to no upgrades ,made no extra barracks and didnt even make one destroyer. Argh....so imbalanced.
    BaMbOo_OwNz_YoU
    Mortal
    posted 26 September 2004 08:58 AM EDT (US)     71 / 109       
    i play atties. i know atties. played them for half a year. atties very op in first 10-13 mins.shocksaves are op. valor isnt very op, seriously, valor isnt. 9 heroes overall for the whole game sux. must is still very good. once the oranos/kronos player has used all hs 3 valors. its gg vs mu. valks are very good vs everything atties have, except heroes, minotaurs and cyclops are all effective. FU eins gg, trolls are very effective, hall of thanes makes loki roxoz. atties are op but i have lost amny games where i have 80% map control,4 vs 2 tc vs isis players. if ur smart, a few walls are what makes u win vs an atty. atty wont raid if theres towers and walls and preists, trust me. oranos is oper than isis btw, but not by a lot though, not at all if u do the right thing at right time. isis is more versatile than oranos even oranos is quite versatile but oranos wins again!!!

    PS: carwash u sux

    Etendorf
    Mortal
    posted 26 September 2004 12:23 PM EDT (US)     72 / 109       

    Quote:

    Everything youve said just makes you look like you know nothing.

    Honestly, people should have stopped listening to BalanceFX when he said Zeus hoplite rush owns atties.

    Quoted from BaMbOo_OwNz_YoU:

    carwash u sux

    Ironic and funny. I suppose if you spam some 11's it will make us believe you, too.


    Nick: Eten.
    Gods: All of them!
    Vanilla.
    G3_
    Mortal
    posted 26 September 2004 01:10 PM EDT (US)     73 / 109       

    Quote:

    Mr balance. First of your quoting hope....hes talking about the situation in the top 100... which is totally different from your situation. Totally different skilllevel and playstyle so.... not even close to comparable.

    Top 100 player = OP
    1600-1720 player = UP

    Do you know what happens to people who have cars and no driving skills?

    Yohan Hoogland
    Mortal
    posted 26 September 2004 01:49 PM EDT (US)     74 / 109       
    Are you guys too moronic to face the facts?

    Atties are not that OP, it's just that they don't require as much (economical) micro as other civs. That, combined with a very, very strong early economy (some say OP), very very strong military in Classical make them very effective to play for beginners. Less micro certainly works for them.

    Atties in 1750- are considered newbie, and their ratings are considered inflated, some say they should be -50 to -150 points lower.

    Isis however, is more micro heavy, but the effect is way more devastating. How hard is it to FH (8- minutes), build an full popped army of CA's/Siege Towers and Anc/Ecl at the 10 minute mark? If done correctly, there should be no civ who can touch Isis but Isis herself.

    While you're quoting all experts at this game, get your facts straight and try to think for a moment before posting mindless crap.

    I am actually in the DoJo clan, and I can tell you that most of our members hate those pesky Atties


    The Wait Is Over

    DoJo Clan Site
    SocK
    Mortal
    (id: SockGuardian)
    posted 26 September 2004 01:53 PM EDT (US)     75 / 109       

    Quote:

    I am actually in the DoJo clan, and I can tell you that most of our members hate those pesky Atties

    But isn't Titanslaya pure Kronos? And since I assume you are one of the people who hate t3h p3sky Atties, do you hate Titanslaya?

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