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Topic Subject:Atlantean thoughts
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BalanceFX
Mortal
posted 21 September 2004 11:00 AM EDT (US)         
Gaia

Strengths:

  • Great booming capibilities.
  • Most defensive of the atlantean gods. Forested towers + Carnivora or Spider Mines allows for a fast heroic strategy normally with little or no troops.
  • Best economic choice. With all economic upgrades being cheaper you can get them sooner and easily out resource your opponant. Gaia's woods ALSO harvest faster with no upgrades making here ideal for wood heavy strats.
  • Tartarian Gate that heals itself is amazing. (If it does) Also can research Myth Regeneration granting her a titan that can hit and run to recover hps.

    Weaknesses:

  • SLOW starter. She needs to get her economic bonuses early or a second town center to really take advantage of her bonus.
  • Decent raiding will take away her early bonus.
  • Raiding is limited to Automation/Murmillo or Turmas. All are poor raiders under Gaia with Turmas being the best choice.
  • Most of her advantages: Trade carts, fishing ships have more hps/Lush/Autohealing building are for all intents and purposes, useless.
  • Channels allows villagers to move faster, but since Atlantean villagers dont move much to begin with this is generally useless.


    Oranos:
    Strengths:

  • All Human soldiers move faster. This is and excellent advantage. It allows turmas to be fantastic cheeseball raiders. Early game your Oracles get to where they need to be faster.
  • Between faster oracles and LOS to all Expansion town centers Oranos easily has the best Archiac scouting in the game. It is on par with greek scouting but not quite as good as Odin Classical scouting.
  • Shockwave. Devastating Archaic power. While easily defended against by putting your troops in a spread formation, few players do that. Shockwave can also disrupt a town center and allow your troops to kill the peons building it in a pinch, if your lucky.
  • Can take VALOR. A Huge weakness all atties have is vrs Myth. Valor mitigates that.
  • Sky passages. While generally not used it does have some fantastic uses. Destroyers are slow, Fire Siphons are slow. This can be used to move them quickly. This can allow Oranos to defend 1 location at a time with ALL of their troops and quickly switch back and forth.
  • Can take Helios. Helios allows you to make the best Siege in the game hands down. With 2 Mythic techs and a Regular tech for your fire siphons your siege is tougher and does an amazing amount of damage quickly. Helios also grants the power to teleport your troops. See a titan gate going up. Get LOS (Usually a contrarius is great for this, with speed and durability to get there.) Click teleport drop a few four armed buggers, some fanatics, some destroyers and 5 super fire sypons and that Titan gate is history.
    Weaknesses:
  • No notable economic/military upgrades.
  • Mythic tech affects Safe passages only and allows for essentially a weak tower.
  • Predictable early game.

    Kronos:
    Strengths:

  • Can teleport buildings. I often reorg my town occasionally to keep my enemy guessing. I normally build LOTS of Barracks and counter barracks to teleport as walls where I need them.
  • Deconstruct + Prometheans + Valor allows for a great Classical rush. If your forward base gets attacked simply move all your building back home.
  • Cheaper siege! Great bonus vrs infantry heavy civs.
  • Cheaper Myth Units! A great break in cost for myth units.
  • Can take VALOR. A Huge weakness all atties have is vrs Myth. Valor mitigates that.
  • Can take Helios. Helios allows you to make the best Siege in the game hands down. With 2 Mythic techs and a Regular tech for your fire siphons your siege is tougher and does an amazing amount of damage quickly. Helios also grants the power to teleport your troops. See a titan gate going up. Get LOS (Usually a contrarius is great for this, with speed and durability to get there.) Click teleport drop a few four armed buggers, some fanatics, some destroyers and 5 super fire sypons and that Titan gate is history.
    Weaknesses:
  • Mythic Tech helps Oracles move faster and see faster. Generally useless for the cost.
  • No economic bonuses.
  • Can't Take Hekate. This means Kronos is the only Attie without a regenerating titan, No Tart Gate which is considered one of the stronger Mythic god powers allowing you to both destroy buildings and release a virtually never ending assault at the targetted location.
  • Can't take Thei. So Kronos has no way to block God powers when building his titan gate. Can't get the five extra overpop Dryads which have the potential to change so many battles for atties. (Which is really to bad because they'd be cheaper under Kronos)

    So theres my random Attie thoughts for the day. Oranos far and away looks like the best attie god 2 me, but I think we all already knew that.

  • AuthorReplies:
    Carwash_II
    Mortal
    posted 26 September 2004 02:59 PM EDT (US)     76 / 109       

    Quote:

    I watched the rec....mr balance you profided the proof yourselve. Did you even watched the rec yourselve? This game is one of the biggest proof of an imbalance there is. How can somebody who micro's so poorly be on top for so long? If you have like 5000 wood and next to no food after like 10 minutes you dont deserve to be on the winning side. Ask yourselve what would happen if you micro like this with greek. Next to that he did nothing with his resources/(while he had thousands!!!)next to no upgrades ,made no extra barracks and didnt even make one destroyer. Argh....so imbalanced.


    correct

    Quote:

    Atties are not that OP, it's just that they don't require as much (economical) micro as other civs. That, combined with a very, very strong early economy (some say OP), very very strong military in Classical make them very effective to play for beginners. Less micro certainly works for them.

    Atties in 1750- are considered newbie, and their ratings are considered inflated, some say they should be -50 to -150 points lower.

    Isis however, is more micro heavy, but the effect is way more devastating. How hard is it to FH (8- minutes), build an full popped army of CA's/Siege Towers and Anc/Ecl at the 10 minute mark? If done correctly, there should be no civ who can touch Isis but Isis herself.

    correct but not that it matters considering ive been saying this the whole thread and balance still is blind...

    Tordenskiold
    Mortal
    posted 26 September 2004 05:16 PM EDT (US)     77 / 109       
    @Balance & Carwash

    You have both reached a point where arguments no longer can convince the other of any thing. Therefor this thread has lost it's point, which was to have a discussion about Atlanteans strong and weak points.

    Please both be mature enough to stop while the thread is still open and just accept that you have different opinions on the subject, which is perfectly fine


    TORDENSKIOLD(1690-1720)

    During the Great Nordic War (1700-1720), he was commander of the danish navy, which defeaded the swedish army at Kristiania (modern Oslo). After the war, he was killed in a duel on Nov. 12, 1720 just outside Hamburg, Germany, during a travel to England.

    ESO: TORDENSKIOLD
    Carwash_II
    Mortal
    posted 26 September 2004 05:27 PM EDT (US)     78 / 109       
    only thing is my arguement holds water and people are agreeing with me in some ways...i dont see anyway saying "OMG balance your so right all civs, escpecially zeus, have such an easy time versus atty!!lol!1!"
    ben_smith999
    Banned
    posted 26 September 2004 06:35 PM EDT (US)     79 / 109       
    Why don't you guys settle it and say the truth: "Atties are good early game, but same as everyone else later-game"

    Settled

    BalanceFX
    Mortal
    posted 26 September 2004 07:57 PM EDT (US)     80 / 109       
    I'm not saying Atties are OP or UP. I just agree that their fairly balanced. They are strong classical vrs SOME civs but Myth Heavy civs, like Ra, Loki, Kronos and Zeus they have problems with. They really cant do much to stop a classical hop rush with 4-5 minotaurs. (Really cheap if you get the 250 + myth upgrade that makes them cost 150 food.)

    If you use your heroes to kill their LAME heros in classical you have a VERY good chance against them. Hop/Minotaur army + two heros is not bad to maintain. And if you can't figure out how to set your economy up for such a rush I don't know what to say. Its not hard.

    ESP on water maps where early fishing can allow a 4:30 -> 5:00 minute aging.

    If I ask anyone: What one weakness do Atties have? Everyone answers Myth. So Myth heavy civs own them. Hades turtle is a close second to beating atties and OP Isis is everyones first choice.

    Funny thing about Isis is that everyone says shes Micro intensive. Got to get the pharoah doing this or that and this second, have to empower because train time is reduced 20% blah blah... Shes not that micro intesive and with all the crutches Isis players get (Listed on the 1st or 2cd page of this thread) she should have NP.

    This thread started as Thoughts on Atties and a few Recorded games on Easy ways to beat them in the 1600-1700 range. Ville Rush has yet to fail except against a 1694 Gaia opponant who Built their building around their TC and Forested it as well....

    Anyways I concede Carwash hates Turma Raiding which to me says he needs to change he play style so Turma raiding is either not an option or is just a plain dumb choice. He on the other hand Says Turma Raiding is OP and I just lose to it everytime and I hate Atties.

    If your not willing to learn and adapt your game to beat the cheeseball turma raiding then enjoy the 1600s. Its a strat, its beatable and its really not OP. Just learn, adapt and overcome.

    Carwash_II
    Mortal
    posted 26 September 2004 10:40 PM EDT (US)     81 / 109       
    didnt even bother reading the rest of your post when yet again you prove your ignorance when you say attie has problems with zeus...
    BalanceFX
    Mortal
    posted 27 September 2004 00:46 AM EDT (US)     82 / 109       

    Quote:

    didnt even bother reading the rest of your post when yet again you prove your ignorance when you say attie has problems with zeus...

    If atties uniforms weakness is muth... And Zeus's focus is myth... (/infantry) YES they should have a problem with Zeus...

    All this from guy who has yet to add ammunition in the form of a recorded game as Atties being OP. And who believes, and the rest of you too, who critqued a 1750+ game as That guy was just dumb or retarded. Dude, I mean Carwash, hes ranked higher than you, and your playing the most OP god of all time! Isis!

    So WTF. Upload a game or think or read. Attie classical is strong. I know this. But Greek Boom is stronger, and so is Isis. If your having problems with Atties as Isis you need to Adapt, Change and Overcome. (I reiterate I know but he doesn't read Squat)

    Atties are OP. LOL rofl. Oh wait, carwash's point is their OP in the 1600!!! Even though I UL games of VILLE rushing and winning every time in this rate, this foo STILL thinks their OP!!!!

    He kills me. They die to a VILLE rush! Very few people in 1600's are going to be able to stop it too. Its kinda funny to me that your still arguing. All the games I UL'ed are real ESO online games. their not vrs a computer. Your just DENSE or stubborn. I dunno and I don't really care. Atties are balanced. The are feasibly better for noobs because they require LESS economic micro. But other than that their just another race to kill. And as greeks I always smile when I see an ATTIE opponant. Its almost a guaranteed win!

    Hades, Loki and Isis on the other hand give me the willies. Very tough dieties!

    Yohan Hoogland
    Mortal
    posted 27 September 2004 09:31 AM EDT (US)     83 / 109       

    Quote:

    But isn't Titanslaya pure Kronos? And since I assume you are one of the people who hate t3h p3sky Atties, do you hate Titanslaya?

    Yes, TS is Kronos, but I have never played with him, I have never spoke with him. I don't really know him, but he seems a cool guy

    I do hate the civ he plays, because it's just too easy. Not too OP.


    The Wait Is Over

    DoJo Clan Site
    Carwash_II
    Mortal
    posted 27 September 2004 04:26 PM EDT (US)     84 / 109       
    once again you say zeus is strong against attie and once again your prove yourself to be a moron. By saying zeus is strong against attie you prove you know nothing about aom:tt so your opinion is pretty much crap.Also, as bigsid said, your provided a game yourself in which atties are a civ for mentally disabled drooling monkeys so why should i have to provide a rec? The attie player was dominating the greek player(i didnt see any hops did you) at the beginning and he didnt even do a true attie rush...he took an extra tc and he could still raid very effectivly (look at their economies at the 13 min.mark) Also i dont know if your realized this but when i say atties that doesnt include gaia..(its common knowledge that when a person says they hate atties, it doesnt generally include gaia)
    BalanceFX
    Mortal
    posted 28 September 2004 00:19 AM EDT (US)     85 / 109       
    You are absoultely correct sir! Atties Weakness is MAss Myth and Zeus excels at Mass Myth! Dude if you cant add 2 and 2 together and form 4 I just dont know what to say.

    And your saying Zeus doesnt stand a chance against Attie. That maybe true, if your playing... But when I'm playing and probably 90% of the rest of peeps who read this forum it just ain't no thing. Mass myth and hops and dominate. What are they gonna do? Valor a murmillo and two turmas and a peon... dude... I got 4 minnys, 20 villes, 5 hoplites, Jason and Odysesus and their TH is gonna fall, and then with no pop as I micro my Hops (only 5 kid, but their fully healed since I dropped restoration) Their go der houses. And you talking like Atties Own Zeus. Dude your and Egg head, who likes to sit back and rely on free towers and mercs and a pharoah and priest and god blocking monuments to save you while your FH for eles and and CA. I can feel your turtle pain. But adapt your game kid. Atties ain't all that, your just haven't figured out the low rate games.

    And you pick on the Attie game I ULed all you like. You call him retarded or whatever you want. He's still 1750+ (Depending on if he plays tonight) while you chilling in the 1600s calling a higher rated and better player dumb. I dunno how else to say ignorant then CarWash...

    So you igge foo. UL a game that proves Atties are OP, preferable one you played so we can critique you. Dunno if you noticed but I ULed a few games as ME with a ville rush most noob Atties cant stop. E'en when their all set for their turma rush their TH falls followed by a manor and wtf good is their counter barracks doing now? Their poped out. Their praying I kill enough villes to pump a A turma who Jason or Oddy will just own. Not to mention my two minotaurs...

    If you think Atties own in the 1600-1700 range, then your just not trying. OF COURSE their easier for noobs, but dude their still noobs! Own them and stop giving them a chance and break into the 1700s. Complaining does little. ESP when you KNOWN your civ, Isis, is the most OP civ of all time. Shes gonna get nerfed! And if you can't beat atties now with your OP civ then how are you gonna compete when Isis is balanced?

    But talk all the smack you want. Maybe if you talk in ALL CAPS and bold you'll get to 1700 tonight! But as a long time veteran of this forum, my guess is you'll tuck your tail and go play Dawn of War or WC3 or some other game where when you whine people comfort you. This is AoM THE TITANS. We don't deal in whiners, you win or you lose and 95% of the time the reason you lost is because you were out played. Its not smurfs or whatever you think it is, its because your on your 1700 ID and never learned how to compete with a 1700 player because you think your GOSU and are gonna play 1500 games with no losses. It happens. Play the harder opponants and get better at the game! Don't create your 1500 ID and think your gonna ever be better then the guy who beat you after 12 straight wins when you self rate as a beginner.

    Learn! Adapt! and overcome. Stop whining and start playing. By Zeus the game is not that complicated! ESP as Isis.

    And does anyone feel the pain of an Isis player whining about any diety? Dude I have OP eles only beat by Bragi Ulfs and Katapeltes. I only get Ancestors Eclipse and SoO along with prosperity. I'm immune to all GPs. I have mercs to throw back any fast rush along with free Tower upgrades. I start with 2 free heroes. WTF. Shove it dude and practice. As isis each of your TC even provide more pop! WTF do you want? Archaic meteor power? Cheat codes enabled whenever you play Isis? The chips are already stacked in your favor, just learn when to bet!

    Carwash_II
    Mortal
    posted 28 September 2004 02:44 PM EDT (US)     86 / 109       
    still a moron...zeus sucks versus attie..instead of pursing your ideas on how balanced atties are why dont you ask someone why zeus sucks versus atty...fool...ok...your whole arguement is based on that i play isis. (hint...i can get to 1650 with zeus easily...especially if i self-rate beginner just like you did to get your gosu 1640 oranos lol.

    [This message has been edited by Carwash_II (edited 09-28-2004 @ 05:49 PM).]

    Bigsid
    Mortal
    posted 28 September 2004 03:25 PM EDT (US)     87 / 109       
    Its mr balance vs the rest of the community here: Everyone says atlanteans(kronos and oranos) is very much op'd vs zeus and mr balance says its the other way around.... i wonder who's right....hmmmm thats a though one. LOL

    Let me quess next post youll say that loki is op'd vs isis or oranos is op'd vs loki. Stop that bull... ask any higher rated player(1800+).... except for water maps/or highly defensive maps oranos or kronos is very much op'd vs zeus.

    Yes juggs is round the 1750 mark.....but guess what the other guy is almost 100 points below him. Doesnt that make you think??? Or the very obvious difference in quality between the players.....or do u whant to deny that?

    Mass myth units? Roflmao........how? Like i said before u cant mass MU's that early in the game as greek unless u go for unusual strats like the 3 minute something centaur strat some experts (1800+) are using since couple of weeks. But i can hardly call that massing.... Plz go online and ask any player above the 1750+ mark for there opininion and ull see that NOONE agress with you. So stop making a fool out of yourselve and go ask.

    Next to that op'd doesnt mean invincible. It means when two equally skilled players face eachother the majority of times the one who uses the civ who's concidered OP will win.

    Ps: what's your point with that correct and incorrect bull... mr carwash? I could say carwash is 1650 with one of the strongest civs in the game which means or hes incredibely slow with his mouse or he knows ... about the game himselve. Its nice u post and communicate with higher rated players on aots.com but does that make you an expert yourselve?

    PS(no2): just found out what your eso name is mr balance... FXBalance... last used: today rate: 1621. I suggest u stop talking now(what did u say about mr carwash's rate again?)

    [This message has been edited by Bigsid (edited 09-28-2004 @ 03:45 PM).]

    Sam_Ham
    Mortal
    posted 28 September 2004 05:22 PM EDT (US)     88 / 109       
    its a well known fact zeus and greek in general have a very hard time against oranos.

    Your formulas dont add up. We are not taling about 2 and 2 here.

    "Oh ill just mass a load of minotaurs in my home base to kill him"

    You dont have time, attie attacks too fast, you dont have the food to build minos, valour will take care of your free one.

    Centaurs get owned by 3 hero turma. Zeus does not "excel at mass myth" in the classical age under relentless pressure, got that?

    Quote:

    I got 4 minnys, 20 villes, 5 hoplites, Jason and Odysesus and their TH is gonna fall

    you have 20 villies omg?, 4 minos?? What was the oranos doing in the meantime, picking his ass? I've had a zeus try this before on me and it didnt work (as oranos).

    Also you are missing the point entirely when you say oranos is not OP.

    Quote:

    OF COURSE their easier for noobs, but dude their still noobs

    this quote proves your idiocy. They are easier for noobs you say, so if they played any other god they would get a lower rating, not an equal one. It doesnt matter if they are "still noobs" the fact remains atties are easier for said noobs to attain a higher rating. So therefor oranos is OP in the 1600-1700 range where noobs like this play.

    gg~gb~no~re



    Sometimes you need to scare the lambs,
    tell tales of evil bad wolves.
    Because if there is nothing to fear,
    they might think for themselves.
    BalanceFX
    Mortal
    posted 29 September 2004 01:06 PM EDT (US)     89 / 109       
    Sorry guys I've been busy.

    First lets run through:

    Greeks can't win vrs Atties because Atties (Esp Oranos and Kronos) attack to early.

    This is just BS. Pure and simple. You can age at the same time or even before atties depending on your build. Yes the rush, Kronos in paticular is tough to defeat, for any civ. (Except Isis who can block the desconstruct power and the other eggies who get free tower upgrades and mercs.)

    Maybe Atties attack too early for *your* bo with greeks. If you can't change it to be competitive then you can't change it then your right, whenever you play it will be too early for you.

    If your trying to say the Kronos rush is OP and unbeatable your wrong. Of course it can be beaten. I know Isis is OP and she can still lose.

    Second: People don't like to attribute anything to their playstyle. They'd much rather say a Civ is OP or a strat is unbeatable. Player skill matters. Atties advantage is a strong early economy and less micro to get it. That is offset by late game.

    Ok massing minotaurs at home to win is not exactly what I said. Assuming you make it past the rush. You can mass mythical units and Hops/Your Heroes/Myth and win most games in the 1600s. The ocassional smurf will be there but you should still have fun.

    The point of my argument is that atlanteans have a weakness to myth. Even with 0 villes praying I will have 15 favor at classical age as zeus. Thats alot of favor for no villager effort. If I dedicate a ville or two I will have much more favor to use to build myth units which Atlanteans do poorly against.

    Now more to the point:
    Bigsid: It would seem to it looks like Bigsid, Carwash and Sam_Ham feel Zeus has a hard time with Atties, esp an early Turma rush. In my experience I have not had or run into the same difficulty with Turmas early game as Zeus. Josey_Wales was a big Zeus player but I don't think he plays anymore. He handidly beat many Atties as Zeus and lost the occasional game. And you another one who speaks for the community with your comment, the whole community feels Zeus is weak vrs Atties... Did you take a poll? Did you UL any games? No... Lets whine and say Atties are OP and ESO plz Nerf em and Balance, I know you like to play Zeus but just accept that Atties are always going to beat you with a turma rush and lose gracefully. (Not that I have ever had a problem with Turma Rushing) And then you go to add my resources up and tell me how many I'm going to have and it won't be enough for 2 minotaurs or centaurs... You don't even know how I set up my economy for a paticular game vrs a paticular person depending on the map. In short you make alot of assumptions. Your comments on 20 villes attacking, their is a ville rush posted in this thread somewhere. Poorly done and yet effective nonetheless vrs Atties and Norse. So go watch the game and see what the Attie or Norse player was doing. I didn't watch their side so maybe they were just sitting on the hands. *shrug* And you found my Id? fxBalance? Good 4 U! Thats the account I set up for my brother to play, I was coaching him in most of those games, but I haven't played Titans myself in atleast 3 days. (I went to bed last night at 7:00 pm EST because I wasnt feeling well)

    Carwash: Spelling, paragraphs, general forms of independent thought would all aid you.

    And now to you three together, BigSid, Sam_Ham and CarWash: I find that when a community member brings new strats to the table and starts thinking outside the box, you three like to attack, call them idiots or fools and in other words behave very badly. Now I have been a member of this community for 2 years and have never suffered so many insults in a single post ever.

    To make matters worse, no posted recorded games as examples, no guides, no proof at at all. No test games. Just really your opinion. I'm all for expressing your opinions openly, but insulting people for theirs is just wrong.

    I don't know what the big deal is guys... Do you not play greeks or atties and cant upload a game you played to back your thoughts? You can't find a game on MFO or aots Or what have you to back your thoughts? Or you just like to call people idiots?


    Bigsid
    Mortal
    posted 29 September 2004 03:04 PM EDT (US)     90 / 109       
    First of all you make an account....to let only your little brother play on it?? That sounds like a really lame excuse....That he plays like an occasional game on it, ok. But not all the games. Just doesnt make sense: its soooo easy to make an account why would he use ur name: its like letting my little sister use my msn. Its an excuse..... u know it.....i know it..... mr carwash knows it...everyone knows it.

    If ur story was correct you would post at least one recently used (eso)name. But u dont... so to me ur just another 1600 wannabe-expert like there are so many.

    Why i dont post one of my greek recs? Although i was 1800+ with hades i'm for 90% ra player lately. Check my stats on my recent account for that (toao_lisciare).
    On my old account (don_lisciare) i've got as high as 1813 with random god but i use that one only for an occasional game so it decayed to 1750'ísh (the bottomline for decay). So i know how to play on a high level with every civ. So dont talk bull... to me. Your argueing with someone whos almost 200 points in rate above u.... very pointless.

    Fact: oranos and kronos are in general op'd vs zeus and possy. Every 1800+ greek player(no exeptions) complained about it....so there is nothing to deny....its just there...discussion closed.

    PS: if u asked on expert chat if ur finding are correct then u wouldnt be posting such a stupid post again....so i guess u didnt do that. :/

    Quircus
    Mortal
    posted 29 September 2004 03:42 PM EDT (US)     91 / 109       

    Quote:

    Can take Helios. Helios allows you to make the best Siege in the game hands down. With 2 Mythic techs and a Regular tech for your fire siphons your siege is tougher and does an amazing amount of damage quickly. Helios also grants the power to teleport your troops. See a titan gate going up. Get LOS (Usually a contrarius is great for this, with speed and durability to get there.) Click teleport drop a few four armed buggers, some fanatics, some destroyers and 5 super fire sypons and that Titan gate is history.

    Actually, Sekhmet's Seige is the best Seige in the game, Hands Down. Stronger Catapults AND stronger Seige Towers (which can also carry units).


    Also, Atties main weaknesses are No Benefit from Economic Carry Capacity Upgrades (therefore, less effective Villagers late-game), Crappy Myth Units, Expensive Heroes (except for 12 Free ones from Valour), and Crappy Seige. (All of these are relative to other civs).

    So to beat them, mass MU and Buildings - Heroes are less important agaisnt them, and raiding is very effective.

    [This message has been edited by Quircus (edited 09-29-2004 @ 03:48 PM).]

    BalanceFX
    Mortal
    posted 29 September 2004 03:49 PM EDT (US)     92 / 109       
    My little brother stopped by to try the game out. He has since bought the gold edition. He is 25 now, and over 6foot which doesn't exactly make him little comparetively but I am older!

    And yes I did create the account, I played the first two games with him watching, a Self Rate Expert at 1750. I Lost the first game to some Odin or Loki player and won the second self rate expert against some Attie player. (Oranos I think), I logged out to create him a new account and it gave me some Internet Explorer error and then wanted me to wait so I said forget it and logged back in with fxBalance, went and poured two tall glasses of guiness while my bro was searching for a game, I got there and started critquing his game and telling him the differences. (The last game he played like this was Starcraft) He did very well I think.

    So its not an excuse it's just the truth. As far as posting my current ESO ID, noone asked. I said I playing around with new strats and Uploaded them. Under IDCAMS and AOX_GAIA. I Think I used to play Idcams be4 along with Balance. I took a long break from TT. When titan was first released and Isis still had cheaper aging I found the Isis Titan turtle way to easy and lame. Maybe 6 months or more. I was playing Farcry, Shadowbane, UT2004 Demo etc. I just came back recently. When I play 20 games and get my rate back up I'll post my ID for anyone who cares. Personally I don't care what people are rated, but I guess it means alot to you. I have a son and a job so my play time in constrained around my responsibilities.

    Quote:

    Why i dont post one of my greek recs? Although i was 1800+ with hades i'm for 90% ra player lately. Check my stats on my recent account for that (toao_lisciare).
    On my old account (don_lisciare) i've got as high as 1813 with random god but i use that one only for an occasional game so it decayed to 1750'ísh (the bottomline for decay). So i know how to play on a high level with every civ. So dont talk bull... to me. Your argueing with someone whos almost 200 points in rate above u.... very pointless.

    So post some. If you claim to be an expert talking down and degrading people on these forums is not very friendly. Post some recs for people to learn from. Remember my original point was Isis is much more OP then Atties are. Yet I still win against Isis too. Normally if I lose I got outplayed, very rarely do I lose to an equally skilled opponant because their Civ was OP. (Or for that matter to a less skilled opponant because their Civ is OP.) I have the hardest time playing against Isis, Ra and to some Extent Set. I find Oranos the toughest of the Attie gods but nowhere near the challenge of Eggies. I Find HADES very tough to play against, A good loki rush can still sometimes get me (Although normally it fails and puts them waaaaaaaaaaaaay behind giving me ample time to beat on them.) Odin's ravens can be a pain with their constant exploration to feul their raiding.

    If you say you have issues with Atties as greeks I believe you, but if you could upload a game where an equally skilled opponant didn't outplay you but actually beat you because of some imbalance please post it so I can watch it and learn from it and see your point. Simple blowing hot air all day and Saying your right and calling people idiots doesn't do anyone any good does it? (Inflate your ego maybe?)

    I'm not the end all be all of strats. (Or gosu as some like to call it) I've never been in the top 100 or even 500 for that matter in TT.) Look at the first and second page of this thread and DL the 3 games there and watch the replays... I was playing around with an early Greek Classical age followed by a ville rush and was talking of ways to defend against it as atties when Carwash started insulting me and saying Greeks suck vrs Atties.... Now your just feuling the fire never once allowing the topic to go back to its orginal discussion. Just ranting and raving.

    So all mighty gosu one. Provide us with a strat greeks can use to overcome their weakness you say they have vrs atties. Tell me why Turma raiding is so prevalent and OP. Give a replay with a description. I'm not in the 1800 range so I think I could learn alot from your 1800 games where your opponant was less or equal skilled you but beat you because of what you percieve to be an imbalance in the attie civ when you were playing the greeks.

    In the meantime I'll keep playing and think twice before I post any ideas on these forums. I will have to bear in mind that the general populace are hostile and insulting and will berate anyone who they percieve to be less than gosu. (Whoever thought posting a strategy in the strategy forum would lead to this? I even uploaded 3 or 4 games as examples of the strat and things to watch out for. Sure its not unbeatable but it is a very strong Zeus strat for 1600 Atlanteans who everyone claims is OP)

    Sam_Ham
    Mortal
    posted 29 September 2004 05:04 PM EDT (US)     93 / 109       

    Quote:

    They are easier for noobs you say, so if they played any other god they would get a lower rating, not an equal one. It doesnt matter if they are "still noobs" the fact remains atties are easier for said noobs to attain a higher rating. So therefore oranos is OP in the 1600-1700 range where noobs like this play.

    ^^plz read again and answer

    1600-1700 is the only rating bracket where oranos (NOT atl,ORANOS) is Overpowered, if only for the reaosn that they are easier for noobs, which you admitted yourself. And greeks have the hardest time against them.


    Futurehermit(1750+ zeus)on zeus vs oranos:

    "against an equally-skilled player it's impossible; actually, against a lesser-skilled player it can even be difficult sometimes. i've had games where i've had a 3:1 kills ratio and still lost because the flood just never ended and i couldn't sustain the tricky greek classical econ.

    good luck towering up as well; each new tower is 300 rez and massed prometheans tear them down in no time.

    oranos vs greek (esp zeus and a lot of times possy as well) is a screwjob. you simply have to outplay your opponent to win.

    there's a reason there are a lot of 1700-1800 oranos/kronos players playing above their true rates. and that reason is that oranos/kronos dismantles zeus/pos/thor/odin (all fairly popular civs) without too much difficulty. a very early attack (4:30 or earlier) can also be a real difficulty for low 1700s eggy players to manage as well. i also had to face a very solid 3:30 kronos rush as ra the other day... not a pretty picture and i went on to lose that match despite being able to hold off the rush; the initial dmg to my econ hurt me in the long term."




    Sometimes you need to scare the lambs,
    tell tales of evil bad wolves.
    Because if there is nothing to fear,
    they might think for themselves.
    Tordenskiold
    Mortal
    posted 29 September 2004 05:55 PM EDT (US)     94 / 109       

    Quote:

    Expensive Heroes (except for 12 Free ones from Valour)

    You only get 9 free heroes from valor after the latest patch.

    I think you guys are going about this the wrong way.

    If you look facts from all the games actually played on ESO, Oranos beats everybody (except Loki, Thor and Set). Gaia worst of all (no surprise) and Zeus as the 2nd worst God. Oranos have won 58% of all games where they have been matched on ESO in the 1600-1700 rating area.

    Kronos, however, is a totally different story. He only have positive figures against Gaia (again, no surprise) and Zeus. And that only by 50.7% which is really the same as a 50/50 chance for Zeus to beat Kronos. Kronos have negative win stats against all other Gods in the 1600-1700 rating area. In fact, he is the 2nd worst God of all, superior only to poor Gaia

    If you don't belive me, look up the fact for yourself at www.jeux-strategie.com.

    So really this discussion can be boiled down to: Yes, Oranos is probably somewhat OP in the 1600-1700 area. However, both Kronos and Gaia are actually UP in the same rating area. So Balance is wrong to say Zeus doesn't have problems against Oranos, but he is right to say Zeus doesn't have problems against Atlanteans, since he is equal with Kronos and beats Gaia with a huge margin.

    The rest of you is right about Oranos being OP against Greeks in the 1600-1700 area - but you are wrong about Atlanteans being OP in the same area. In fact, Kronos and Gaia are the 2 worst Gods in that bracket. Only Oranos are really strong.

    Now, shake hands and say GG.


    TORDENSKIOLD(1690-1720)

    During the Great Nordic War (1700-1720), he was commander of the danish navy, which defeaded the swedish army at Kristiania (modern Oslo). After the war, he was killed in a duel on Nov. 12, 1720 just outside Hamburg, Germany, during a travel to England.

    ESO: TORDENSKIOLD
    Carwash_II
    Mortal
    posted 29 September 2004 06:18 PM EDT (US)     95 / 109       
    Stats mean absolutly nothing...tord youve been told that about a billion times when will it sink in .
    Tordenskiold
    Mortal
    posted 29 September 2004 06:25 PM EDT (US)     96 / 109       
    Never !!

    You two morons have now spend 9 pages of total biased BS with absolutly nothing to back up any of your claims.

    Stats may not be the total truth - but it still beats the hell out of what you guys have come up with on at least the last 5 pages in this thread.

    If you had even taken the time to check out what has actually really happened in real games played on ESO instead of slinging mud in each others face, this farce may have ended 3 pages back

    So please don't sound like a braindead parrot and just repeating what you have read over on AOTS about statistics. Try to think for yourself - you may even like it


    TORDENSKIOLD(1690-1720)

    During the Great Nordic War (1700-1720), he was commander of the danish navy, which defeaded the swedish army at Kristiania (modern Oslo). After the war, he was killed in a duel on Nov. 12, 1720 just outside Hamburg, Germany, during a travel to England.

    ESO: TORDENSKIOLD
    Etendorf
    Mortal
    posted 29 September 2004 06:45 PM EDT (US)     97 / 109       
    Please! Tord! You can make good arguments and generally seem to have an ok understanding of the game, but stop it with the stupid stats!

    They have to many factors to be used for deciding OP or not!

    Quote:

    this farce may have ended 3 pages back

    So please don't sound like a braindead parrot

    This also might be why people don't like you.


    Nick: Eten.
    Gods: All of them!
    Vanilla.
    Carwash_II
    Mortal
    posted 29 September 2004 06:50 PM EDT (US)     98 / 109       
    according to stats norse is the OP civ because all their win rates is 50%+...yeah that makes so much sense...also i read stats dont mean anything here and at AOTS...so what??Everyone but you is wrong lol.Adults are soooo arrogant and blind (balance and tord )

    [This message has been edited by Carwash_II (edited 09-29-2004 @ 06:52 PM).]

    BalanceFX
    Mortal
    posted 30 September 2004 01:20 AM EDT (US)     99 / 109       

    Quote:

    according to stats norse is the OP civ because all their win rates is 50%+...yeah that makes so much sense...also i read stats dont mean anything here and at AOTS...so what??Everyone but you is wrong lol.Adults are soooo arrogant and blind (balance and tord )

    But in the range your speaking of the stats don't lie... Essentially your assumption is somewhat confirmed... Oranos is pretty tough in the low rates... :-)

    But I concede this thread really has no point anymore. It is filled with Flamers and peeps who don't really care about much other then their ego.

    They love to insult and take topics WAAAAAAY of subject. Thank god for the mods! Without them this thread would have gone on for 10 pages or more. Oh wait.... ;-)

    GJ insulting everyone. Thanks for the kind words and tips with Zeus. Thanks for commenting on my ville rush strat for low ranked atties and the tips on atties... I have learned my lesson. Don't post anything without backup... oh wait I did that... its the hatesayers who have so far as much not posted a single game.... hmmm.... Oh well. I guess I should just keep clicking reply and talking smack til whatever I say is true. That could work too eh?

    Or I could use the common knowledge phrase or send people to EXPERT chat Whatever TF that is... hehe...

    This thread lost its point like 5 pages ago... So do with it what you will... Flame, berate and harass... you guys are very good at that! See ya on ESO! :-)

    Tordenskiold
    Mortal
    posted 30 September 2004 03:58 AM EDT (US)     100 / 109       

    Quote:

    also i read stats dont mean anything here and at AOTS...so what??Everyone but you is wrong lol.Adults are soooo arrogant and blind (balance and tord )

    Yeah, and teenagers knows everything about what goes on in the world so much better than everybody else

    I think you insult more people than you realize here on AOMH. The general age and maturity is somewhat higher than over on AOTS where you can get away with flaming everybody.


    TORDENSKIOLD(1690-1720)

    During the Great Nordic War (1700-1720), he was commander of the danish navy, which defeaded the swedish army at Kristiania (modern Oslo). After the war, he was killed in a duel on Nov. 12, 1720 just outside Hamburg, Germany, during a travel to England.

    ESO: TORDENSKIOLD
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