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Topic Subject:Virus warning
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Anastasoulis
Mortal
posted 19 October 2005 02:53 AM EDT (US)         
hey guys,
I'm working on my virus scenario and this is the map so far (strategic map):

Now I've run into a problem, when I tried to use enlarged taproots for the bones, but the enlargement screws them up and they don't appear right. Now, I want to place the bone-rib cage structure before I fill in the interior with more terrain. Any suggestions on what else to use?
The veins are represented with low water-filled Hades forest, and the lighting is red, to give you more info.

Other comment, working with mummies as the virus, I found that the enemy is either too weak and will be destroyed when enough force is gathered, or too strong and will overun everything if it reaches the heart area. So now I'm planning to reduce the number of mummies and use Argus and Hydras for the virus mutation ~i.e. to give the player a big fight on his hands.
Any suggestions on "administered medicine" ?
~i.e. when the player (Thor) reaches 100 favour, to receive some bonus units -but not heroes.
I hope you RPGers out there will like a simple B&D game which will pose some strategy questions on how to deal with the enemy ~and this is my progress so far.

regards

George


the Elder
"imagination is more important than knowledge."
Albert Einstein

[This message has been edited by Anastasoulis (edited 10-19-2005 @ 03:00 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
sziggi
Mortal
posted 19 October 2005 03:24 AM EDT (US)     1 / 32       
very intesting, maybe the guys gets an adrenalin rush and gets going every thing on the board with a shifting sands all over the place. And you should deffinatly use the chick blood for a blood streem surge.

This reminds me of the norse lore of the gaint who dies and dwarf and elf come from his dieing or dead body.


Got any bigger picts of that map?

Anastasoulis
Mortal
posted 19 October 2005 05:02 AM EDT (US)     2 / 32       
sziggi my friend, thanx for the responce.

A. Yes, adrenalin rush is the english term -I've used the Greek ADRENALINE message, to grant the player at the "arms" (as though by injection) every time 100 favour is gained, either 5 einherjar, or a couple of frost giants, or something of the sort(when some condition is fullfiled, then 100 favour will provide 1 Arcus archer-looping).

B. Shifting Sands to move to the place where the fight is, do I understand correctly?
But there's no function like that in the body, or is there?

C. Could you also explain to me this idea about the chicken blood fro a blood stream surge? It sounds very interesting.

D. I know this norse lore of the gaint who dies and dwarf and elf come from his dieing or dead body. But how does it relate to the scenario? Perhaps it's because of the trigger that changes mummy produced minions to Hydras?

Sorry, no bigger pictures of the map yet, as it's in the works. Basically the map started out as Hades forest terrain, then I covered with water and this is used as the basis for the veins-pathways. Then came the heart as 2 TCs, the lungs as farms, 2 kidneys as Markets, the Spleen as Hill fort, the Pancreas as Longhouse and Armoury, the diaphragm as a mountain range with an opening in the middle with a tunnel for the main vein to cross, the brain as a Koth Temple where some helpful relics are stored, the stomach as an enclosed forest area and houses of different cultures as various other organs.
The blood stream is represented by oxen trade, and the villagers are cells doing farming (breathing) and wood cutting (food from stomach). The units are the Lymphatic system's fighting units, with no ox carts, Hersir, Jarls, or siege.
Since the player can't build anything, the strain will be to defend the various buildings around and protecting the villagers working. The fighting is very hard against these monsters, and prolonged because of the monster strength and of the Thor Armoury improvements ~when researched.

Don't know if you like the ideas so far, but I've found them kind'a interesting, and posing a problem on how to deal with the monsters - specially killing the mummies which are the one's producing the other monsters.
Oh, and I forgot, there's a trigger that when when the monsters-virus population reaches 300, a looping trigger command is given to them to attack move to the heart (TCs).
If the player loses the heart, or the brain, it's game over.

Hope you like it.

regards

George


the Elder
"imagination is more important than knowledge."
Albert Einstein
Kenjitus
Mortal
posted 19 October 2005 08:00 AM EDT (US)     3 / 32       
Throw some 'Did you know?'s and you can claim it's educational :P

Also, here are some ideas:
Prometians - mitosis
Have the mummy's minions always turning into more mummys. It may make it rather hard but it simulates the way viruses take control of each cell and use it for themselves. (mabye turn up recharge time)


Co-Leader of: Six Flags RTS Design Team
Current Projects: SF Map Pack 2

[This message has been edited by Kenjitus (edited 10-19-2005 @ 08:05 AM).]

Out Reach
Mortal
(id: newreach268)
posted 19 October 2005 08:05 AM EDT (US)     4 / 32       
for bonuses why not use shades spc...? they kill myth instantly, but dont last long once you get some.

after somee thaught call them antibodys. then have thier attack being randomised constantly. that way it provides the bacterias imunity.

about the ribs, apart from taproots i have no over surgestions... maybe use multiple roots for a single rib... might not look as good due to ribs having growths, but then again, its a practical way of doing it...

ps, looks great accepting playtesters yet?


Out Reach
The guy who writes the erotic fan fiction in Yeebaagoon's signature

[This message has been edited by newreach268 (edited 10-19-2005 @ 11:34 AM).]

Anastasoulis
Mortal
posted 20 October 2005 02:01 AM EDT (US)     5 / 32       
thanks for the replies guys.

@ Kenjitus
+ what's this idea of Prometians - mitosis?
+ minions to mummies was my initial intent, but it's too strong and I playtested it, after modifying minion's lifetime and giving a 25% bonus to mummy recharge time through a relic, and it's impossiple to win. Perhaps I should change the timer of minion to mummy to more than 10secs...

@ newreach268
+ thanks for the special shades idea, it's really good and I will definitely include it.
+ you would like to playtest? OK, but I can't give you yet something that's not "presentable" and descent, as it's not really completed. I'll send it to you for playtesting, when it's finished, OK?

regards

George


the Elder
"imagination is more important than knowledge."
Albert Einstein
Hikari
Mortal
(id: echowinds)
posted 20 October 2005 03:22 AM EDT (US)     6 / 32       
Nice, reminds me of this old Starcraft map.

Kenjitus
Mortal
posted 20 October 2005 03:53 AM EDT (US)     7 / 32       
Mitosis is the division of cells.

What I meant by the mummys is that whenever they turn a unit into minions the minions turn into more mummys. But if the minions are too powerful the multiplying mummys would destry everything.

You can use argus as those white blood cells that engulf cells (can't remember their name). But that will require you to breack from the norse thene (as will prometians)


Co-Leader of: Six Flags RTS Design Team
Current Projects: SF Map Pack 2
Anastasoulis
Mortal
posted 20 October 2005 04:00 AM EDT (US)     8 / 32       
OK Kenjitus,
I understand Mitosis, are you working in the health sector?
Yes, I'm using Mummies and originally their minions turned into more Mummies after a 10sec delay, but like I said ~ it's too powerfull and they'll end up winning every battle.
So I'm now changing minions to Hydras and everytime an ox wagon/trading is killed, that's changed into a virus Argus.
Also, there's a QV trigger that counts up units killed by the virus and I'm using the trigger trick summoning units, to create more Mummies as the Virus "spreads".
Prometheans are OK too, but the other monsters are better for a big fight. Oh, and I'm not sticking to a Norse theme at all, as this is a representation of the body.

regards


the Elder
"imagination is more important than knowledge."
Albert Einstein
Kenjitus
Mortal
posted 20 October 2005 06:03 AM EDT (US)     9 / 32       
I'm taking biology :P

Won't the killed ox cart cause a chain reaction that will cause all ox carts to die? If one is killed, it changes to an argus and attacks the closes unit which is... another ox cart who turns into an args and looks for the closest unit, well, you get it. This is assuming that the ox carts are relatively tightly packed and. (even if it it is not all of them but just a section)


Co-Leader of: Six Flags RTS Design Team
Current Projects: SF Map Pack 2
battlestarooo
Mortal
posted 20 October 2005 06:51 AM EDT (US)     10 / 32       
those that engulf infested cells are Phagocytes, also known as white blood cells. They engulf cells with flags that basically says "kill me". The flags tell if the cell is infested or not. Cells break down virus proteins and display the particles on their cell surfaces. This is where antibodies are attached to, and the antibodies are made by B-cells, and T-cells kill the infested cells.

--> Phagocytes eat tagged cells, T-cells kill tagged cells.

Virus have this one property, it can insert into the genomic DNA without any harm to the cell. It kills or replicates only when the viral DNA exits the genomic DNA and makes viral proteins to construct new viruses.

--> Point is, viruses can hide.

There are different types of viruses. Some explode the cells when new viruses are released to the surrounding. Some keeps reproducing and releasing while the cell is still alive. Some viruses attack the immune system thus is difficult to get rid of, and this is AIDS.

--> You can have different viruses.


Mitosis, and if you include Meiosis down at the area of you know where, you might be able to claim this R-rated

[This message has been edited by battlestarooo (edited 10-20-2005 @ 07:12 AM).]

Kenjitus
Mortal
posted 20 October 2005 07:03 AM EDT (US)     11 / 32       
yea I remember now, phagocytes and lymphocytes :P

Co-Leader of: Six Flags RTS Design Team
Current Projects: SF Map Pack 2
battlestarooo
Mortal
posted 20 October 2005 07:22 AM EDT (US)     12 / 32       
About the ribs, I suggest not to put em there. You could put some on the rim, just size em as big just before they disappear. Even if you were able to get a skeleton across, it's going to obstruct player view of the map. Or you could put the roots on the rim tip down to suggest only part of the skeleton are being shown.
Anastasoulis
Mortal
posted 20 October 2005 07:37 AM EDT (US)     13 / 32       
@ battlestarooo, yes I did make the rib cage but like you said it obstructed the view so I deleted it.
Perhaps I'll try your idea now.

@ Kenjitus
lymphocytes are the ulfsarks, and phagocytes are the housekarls if I remember my setup.

It's coming along nicely thank you.

regards


the Elder
"imagination is more important than knowledge."
Albert Einstein
Out Reach
Mortal
(id: newreach268)
posted 20 October 2005 09:46 AM EDT (US)     14 / 32       

Quote:

@ newreach268
+ thanks for the special shades idea, it's really good and I will definitely include it.
+ you would like to playtest? OK, but I can't give you yet something that's not "presentable" and descent, as it's not really completed. I'll send it to you for playtesting, when it's finished, OK?

yep thats fine with me, also obviously i'd wait for the map to have the game play in it first befor you gave me a version...

also got a new idea, provides a bit better antibodys. use lampades blood created in an area around per say wer a player casts a law. you then set tec status asper blood a few times. that way the blood comes up and damages the enemys in the area. obviously this also alows you to have an "evolution shop" where you can buy further laws/asper blood tecs....


Out Reach
The guy who writes the erotic fan fiction in Yeebaagoon's signature
Xdaamno
Mortal
posted 20 October 2005 10:56 AM EDT (US)     15 / 32       
My opinion is you should not lose when the brain dies... this is because people do not die if their brain has died; instead they slip into unconsc... however you spell it:P

Maybe this could just add a HUGE disadvantage rather than making you lose the game:P

battlestarooo
Mortal
posted 20 October 2005 12:08 PM EDT (US)     16 / 32       
OMG, brain death = dead. O.O
When unconscious, the brain's still alive... I'm very sure about that.
Hikari
Mortal
(id: echowinds)
posted 20 October 2005 09:51 PM EDT (US)     17 / 32       
When you die, your brain stops working.

Even when your heart stops working, you can still be alive if your brain is still active.

Bascially, brains>*


Anastasoulis
Mortal
posted 21 October 2005 02:06 AM EDT (US)     18 / 32       
thanks for the replies guys and girl, so let me answer in the order of the messages and say my opinion.

& Kenjitus
you biology student, you. I hope you don't judge my ignorance of the body functions so hardly.
About the ox carts, you're right that a chain reaction would occur, and they're the blood cells that go up and down to and fro the heart. So in order to solve that problem, I'm using the trigger trick of summoning unit as a looping trigger to "shoot" an argus when an oxcart dies.
hope you understand what I mean.

-----------------------------------------------------------
@ battlestarooo
I retain your 2 points.
1) Point is, viruses can hide and 2) You can have different viruses.

I've done my research and perhaps I should include a couple of Word files, explaining the basics of body functions, plus some pics, along with the scenario.
When I read up all the data about body functions and viruses different types, I though that perhaps I should have a random virus (i.e. monster type) attack every time the game will be started. So I sat down and wrote up the statistics of the various mounsters that would be fun to toy with, so Mummy was my first choice, Argus, Hydra, Annubites, etc. plus I considered Loki's Hersirs. All had their pros and cons, so I finnaly came down to Mummy. But Mummy was either too strong or too weak against massed formations, so now I'm including more monsters in order to make the game fun and a big battle.

I'm working on implementing your idea of the rib cage, but having problems cause it gives LOS to the player to places I didn't want him to and the monsters can do nothing about it.
Originally, I'd placed only curved taproots down the chest and along the upper chest.

Your antibiotics idea I don't fully understand.

Quote:

use lampades blood created in an area around per say wer a player casts a law. you then set tec status asper blood a few times. that way the blood comes up and damages the enemys in the area. obviously this also alows you to have an "evolution shop" where you can buy further laws/asper blood tecs....

So it becomes like an RPG type leveling up system where you research for stronger spell type techs?


@ Xdaamno

Quote:

My opinion is you should not lose when the brain dies...


My friend, if my brain died, I wouldn't want my body to continue to live as a plant. I think, it'd be better if they made spare parts of it, so that other people could live. Of course it's my personal view, and I'm a body doner in Greece -but hey, they can have it only if I'm done with it... (I hope)

@ Nausicaa
hey girl, you're true

Quote:

When you die, your brain stops working.
Even when your heart stops working, you can still be alive if your brain is still active.


Basically, this is a philosophical discussion about what a human is... In my personal opinion, body-brain-psyche.


well, that's all for now

regards

George



the Elder
"imagination is more important than knowledge."
Albert Einstein

[This message has been edited by Anastasoulis (edited 10-21-2005 @ 02:08 AM).]

battlestarooo
Mortal
posted 21 October 2005 02:47 AM EDT (US)     19 / 32       
All bodily functions are controlled by the Brain and spinal cord. Without the Brain, heart won't be beating, intestines won't be digesting, lungs won't be breathing. There's no way one can be even a vegetable with brain dead. Some bodily cells would still be alive for a while but the entity is totally dead. Dead I say.

Quote:

I'm working on implementing your idea of the rib cage, but having problems cause it gives LOS to the player to places I didn't want him to


place objects with Gaia or another player and turn off the LOS.

Out Reach
Mortal
(id: newreach268)
posted 21 October 2005 03:29 AM EDT (US)     20 / 32       
erm... its a bit complicated to explain but i'll try.
well as you should know antibodys tend to be a final defence. they would swarm to the infection and basicly neutralise the virus, leaving it near enough dead, so that white blood cells could eat them up as passing.

so well, after more thaught this is how it would work. (completly ignore previous lampades blood stament, not possible with current triggers)
1- lampades have no attack, and lots of health. the aspher blood tec has been activated about 10 times allready.
2- lampades can be baught at a temple in the arms. (most antibodys come from the bone marrow of peoples arms.)
3- playes could spend favour to upgrade antibodys with the aspher blood tec, MULTIPLE times.
4- players move lampades close to the virus and delete them, the blood damages them.

as you see the antibodys at the start will mearly wound the virus, however as the game progresses the upgrades will build up, and the antibodys with eventually easily kill the virus.


Out Reach
The guy who writes the erotic fan fiction in Yeebaagoon's signature
Xdaamno
Mortal
posted 21 October 2005 06:11 AM EDT (US)     21 / 32       
I must of has it wrong, then:P No need to argue.

I had an ide for a scn JUST like this a few years ago... when I only knew how to place units etc, and do a very few triggers:P

I'm glad somebody else thought of it and picked up on it. Good luck!

EDIT: Yeah, I was thinking of a coma. Then, yet again, the brain still runs the function needed to survive and occasionly creates a dreamspike...

[This message has been edited by Xdaamno (edited 10-21-2005 @ 06:13 AM).]

battlestarooo
Mortal
posted 21 October 2005 06:49 AM EDT (US)     22 / 32       
antibodies don't nutralize the viruses directly, they are only tags for T-cells and phagocytes to identify which are healthy cells and which are infected.

Antibodies come directly from B-cells, of which there is a library of B-cells that records antibodies for all past sicknesses (thus vaccines work). When virus is detected, the specific B-cells that make the antibodies for these specific viruses are stimulated and they multiply in order to mass produce the right type of antibodies for the invading viruses.

Antibodies are very very small, they don't do much other than being little flags.

I think upgrading T-cells and phagocytes would be better, and buying new antibody types so virus invasions would be detected as soon as they enter the body.


The mechanics:
Virus enters a cell.
Cell protection enzymes break down some viruses and display fractions of viral protein on the cell surface.
Antibody binds to cells displaying viral proteins fractions.

Now there's two choices.
1 - Infected cell still living: T-cell binds to the cell and kills it. End of process.

2 - Infected cell is now dead and lysed: Phagocytes engulfs the viruses with antibodies attached to them.


At the same time of all this T-cells selects the right B-cells to proliferate.

Here I found the picture for it


A little different for AIDS as a special situation because the host cells are the ones in the immune system.

[This message has been edited by battlestarooo (edited 10-21-2005 @ 06:52 AM).]

Hessu
Mortal
posted 22 October 2005 03:37 AM EDT (US)     23 / 32       
I believe this belongs to biology discussions.
Damn! We don't have that kind of forum.

But anyway. This sounds really interesting. I remember you long time ago talking something about making this kind of scenario. I'm glad you really started to make this. The map look really cool.

Maybe you could use fallen collumns as bones
(Like something like this)


_____
/Hessu\
/My scenarios\~
________*-(_)------(_)--*^________
PROUD MEMBER OF TSUNAMI STUDIOS
battlestarooo
Mortal
posted 22 October 2005 04:42 AM EDT (US)     24 / 32       
or tilted columns so player can get across, that looks pretty good.

[This message has been edited by battlestarooo (edited 10-22-2005 @ 04:42 AM).]

Xdaamno
Mortal
posted 22 October 2005 05:10 AM EDT (US)     25 / 32       
That fallen(tilted) columns idea could REALLY be something! Bone breaks/fractures = Change the unit heading!

Although... they'll be no breaking/fracturing of bones, anyway:P

[This message has been edited by Xdaamno (edited 10-22-2005 @ 05:10 AM).]

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