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Downloads Home » Recorded Games » Mythic (Loki) vs 1720 Zeus

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Mythic (Loki) vs 1720 Zeus

Author File Description
Mythic_Freak
File Details
# of Players: 2
Map Type: Unknown
Map Size: Normal
Game Type: Supremacy
Handicapped: No
Shared Resources: No
Shared Population: No
Cheats Allowed: No
AoM Version: AoM: The Titans
Player 1's Name: CF_IamSimoN
Player 2's Name: aKm_Freak
Ok, so I upped ridiculously fast because I expected an Athena rush, but I figured out that even then it wouldn't be necessairy.

After all he just slowly advanced to classical with hermes in ~6:00.

We both raided a bit, but after a while he could push me back in my base because his army was larger. We both went heroic, though I was getting goldstarved. Every time I sent out a group of hersirs to raid they ran into a group of his army, so I gave up raiding after a while...

In heroic I tried to push with FW, but I forget he still had cease. So next time I'll have to go FW/FW instead of Hel I guess.

Anyway, game went mythic, he controlled the centre and started tower spamming, combined with belle and myrmidon spam, so from then on I was pretty much dead...

Other mistakes I'm aware of:
* should scout for hunters at start and spy them, so I can push him of hunt in classic.
* should go 2 temples (combined with later advance)
* get market fast, so I can sell wood early heroic to keep pushing

A few games later I got owned by a real athena rush, so any general loki vs zeus tips are welcome.

Thanks.
AuthorComments & Reviews   ( All | Comments Only | Reviews Only )
Oran Ok, i watched your game, and first of all i would like to say that you were better, while he were smarter. You have made some mistakes, i watched the game and wrote them on a paper:

1) Your biggest mistake was to not min gold. You had something like 20 dwarf, and they were idle like all the time, and by idle i mean they weren't collecting gold. I know that he was raiding you every time you were sending the dwarfs to min, but do never stop doing it, he may forgot about a minute about the gold, and 20 miners can collect a decent amount of gold in one minute, better than nothing.

2) You hersir rush a greek. Do never do that again, toxotes can kill your hersirs easly.

3) There was so much gold on the map, and you mined only from one gold mine for most of the time. Don't be afraid to mine far away from your TC, there was a mine north, you could go mine there.

4) Make more than one mining group, so even if he raids a group of miners, there's the other one who gets gold

There were the mayor mistakes, now i'll list the little ones:

1) You wasted a lot of gold to build walls near your towers, and you didn't upgrade them. It was a mistake: he didn't raid you much and you didn't need towers, nor walls to protect them.

2) Very little thing, try to cast spy on a villager (miner if you can) when you raid.

3) After he killed your hersir army, you kept making them and raiding with them. Toxotes counter them really easly so making them was a waste. Also, you had more vills on gold than food while hersirs cost 80 food and only 40 gold.

4) Let's talk about fort hills. You could make the second fort hill near gold, to defend it, and you made it inside your base. Fort hills are important, their units are the strongest ones and they can be used just as he did with his fortress and the Town center in the middle for defending and holding areas

5) To know where his miners are, send one raiding cavairly to each mine. If you can raid his gold, i guess that you know what happens :p

6) Your trade route was just...bah... I mean, if you don't have gold and you think that carovans are your only chance, at least make a decent route. The farer is the market from the TC, the more gold you get. It is often a good idea to build them on corners, you could have placed yours in the south corner.

7) You had 3k of each resource and no gold. Even if it's a big loss, you don't have so many options: Sell food and wood for gold

8) You had idle cavalry. Use it to raid him, the main goal is to kill his vills or make them run away so they don't gather resources, as your opponent did. You should always have something like 10 of them raiding his vills, he has to think at defeding all the map, not only his fortress + TC.

9) You just wasted all the gold you got from the marcket on town center and update because you had max pop. Well, you could attack and then use all that gold to replace your units instead, also when you attack remember to use rams as they are really good at destroying buildings

10) If you don't have gold, don't waste it on mythic units

11) toxotes are good against ulfs and TA. next time make more cavalry, it's also easier to run away.

12) Going mythic was a mistake, it isn't worth if you don't control gold, also because norses don't get anything good in mythic age

13) You started with a defensive strat, then you rushed with hersirs, and kept doing that, but you didn't build any baraccas near his base. Then you got that it won't work and tryed to go heroic, while you kept raiding. next time don't keep raiding, but use the troops to defend yourself until you get to heroic, and then build a fort instead. if you want to keep raiding use cavalry, norse one is so good, doesn't cost a lot, takes 2 pop slots and also they are very fast.

14) Explore more, try to understand where his woodcutters may be, where his miners may be, where his trade route is; i can go on for all the day...

and the last thing, when you advanced myth you knew that you couldn't win, but you could try to make a titans and destroy his base, then send your vills to min there and maybe kill him. You had the resources to do that


ok, i think that's all, hope it helps, and sorry for my bad english :(

[Edited on 12/31/08 @ 07:44 AM]

Mythic_Freak
File Author
Nice! Thanks

1,3,4) Yeah, I rewatched the replay, and it would probably be safe to sneakily mine in the north. Though if he discovers them they're all dead before I get them back to my base. Splitting them up would be a good idea, I'll remember that.

2) Well, I didn't really intend to rush. I talked to FW_Sim for a while (he was in the same clan as me a couple of years ago, so he's a great help too :p). Anyway, he told me to hersir "raid" all the time. So just run around with hersirs, not fightning army but chasing vills and hitting some tower as long as there is no army close.

Others:
1) Well, I started playing sup again pretty recently (a few weeks now), I always played zelda the last 3 years. :p So anyway, I knew that good zeus players usually athena rush norse, but I didn't really know exactly how it went. So I tried to up early and defend towers with houses and some pieces of wall. After all, that wasn't necessairy, but I didn't really know by that time.

2) I think the spy is a really big thing to remember the next time, it might have won me the game, together with a better heroic push.

3) Loki always goes heavy on gold in classic as far as I know, to spam BBs in heroic.

4) I try to get an hillfort up as soon as possible when I hit heroic. My first try was near that forward mine in the center, so that I could mine there again if my heroic push worked. Didn't work though. :(

5,8) Yep, should always keep raiding, but I had the feeling he was all over the map. When I resigned I was surprised there was so little covered by him. A good zeus player would probably spam buildings all over the map by that time.

6) I always built my market in my base with my initial ulf, so it isn't really suitable for a trade route, need to work on that...

7) True

9) Yeah, I love upgrades, more than any other sup player it seems. Must be a zelda habbit. Sup players tend to just spam units with whatever gold they have, without upgrades. I don't really like that.

10) Mythic Units? You mean fire giants? They did a great job vs those catapults, they were pretty much the only unit that could take down more than 1 without dieing in the process. But belle > all. :( I should really try to stop greeks before they get mythic.

11) I was spamming ulfs because those seemed to be the only units that trained fast enough to keep up with him. I'll have to spam more barracks earlier next time, so I can also spam the right units.

12) Going mythic probably would've been worth it if I could do FW+FW, but I wasted that chance. :(

13) I think loki HoT hersirs are great at raiding too, and they're really cheap in terms of gold for their pop (even better than ulfs). I think keep raiding wouldn't be bad untill I was ready for my heroic push.

14) True, if I kept scouting, I could've known that he hardly controlled the north side of the map, so I could go mine there.

Thanks for those tips, I'll keep them in mind!
Oran Read This (http://aom.heavengames.com/strategy/articles/16/) guide, it seems like you have a bit of problems with greece ppl so that's your guide. Also, about the fact you though he was controlling all the map, THAT'S what i meant: I mean, i knew that that's what you though, but controlling the map isn't so easy as you think, and a good player couldn't do a lot better (maybe kill you faster =p). You thought at your base as it was walled and if you exit from these walls without a big army something will eat your units. You have to start to think at the ground like it's of all, and don't be afraid to build even far away. Even if the opponent has build foward, it doesn't mean he has got LoS of all the ground exept your base.

[Edited on 12/31/08 @ 09:29 AM]

TTK_GeneralNoob Sorry you did not play so well this game... for starters using FW when he has ceasefire was noob mistake. (I know this may offend you, but it's true). You also need to have more than one temple and one barracks pumping out units... no wonder you lost the early battles, you didn't have enough military buildings. Finally, most Zeus player don't Athena rush vs Loki because Hersirs own minotaurs. So an up at around 5:00-5:30 should be ok.

Your lategame was a lot better than your early game, your early game needs a lot of work. Download Sim games or Love_Soup games.
Mythic_Freak
File Author
Yeah, it was a noob mistake, the painful truth. I guess I was too excited that I could finally break free and get that much needed gold mine that I couldn't think clear. :p

Well, like I said, when I noticed he didn't rush, the FH was my plan all the time. I just made some hersirs to raid him. I never intended to fight any early battles, so I didn't need more early rax. I just needed rax from the moment I started pumping units in heroic.

I already watched a few loki recs, but I just watch them for fun, and to get a general idea of what strategies are available, and what to expect from other gods. Though I never studied them (or the BOs) detail. I don't like to blindly copy peoples strats. Maybe I should, after all the current experts had many years to test and perfect them, so they must be good.

It was quite a disappointment when I heard from Sim that you should practically always hersir raid. As far as I knew you should slightly adapt your BO to the map, don't do the same thing twice, and have various strategie vs different gods. But no, just hersir raid all the time... o.0

Sounds kinda boring to me actually, I like to heimdall rush from time to time too.
Oran You should start by using experts strats and BOs, and then try to adapt them to you. Anyone knows better than you what is the best way to deal with your gameplay, but starting from a good point will help you reatching that ability faster

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