You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Strategy and General Discussion
Moderated by Yeebaagooon, TAG

Hop to:    
Welcome! You are not logged in. Please Login or Register.7 replies
Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy and General Discussion » the Atlantean misconception
Bottom
Topic Subject:the Atlantean misconception
Solgudguy
Mortal
posted 31 May 2020 05:27 AM EDT (US)         
When i googled about Atlanteans, this came out - 'The descendants of the Atlanteans according to traditional Theosophy include those of the Mongolian race, the Malayan race, and the American Indian race as well as some people of what in the late 19th and early 20th centuries was called the "olive-skinned" Mediterranean race.' but in Aom, they seem much like north europeans, and their culture is Greek, so there is a little difference between them, why don't they put the Romans instead them? they sure have similarities, but the civilization is different, they would have introduce the Celts instead, do anyone think that the Atlantean civ was too much for a different civ to be introduced in an expansion?

[This message has been edited by Solgudguy (edited 05-31-2020 @ 09:55 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
ephestion
Mortal
posted 31 May 2020 08:07 AM EDT (US)     1 / 7       
If we had to rename the Cultures into modern names I would assign:

Zeus = USA
Poseidon = UK
Hades = Australia

But when Atlantean came out it was like having a second USA. But on closer inspection they behaved more like Russia. We had Turma dominated matches in the early days.

Historically no-one knows where Atlantis is but it more likely to be a Greek Island or the Americas. It was said to have vanished this could have been by covering by the sea figuratively in the Mediterranean or symbolically in the sense trade and communication was cut off for a long time ie the Americas.

The Romans? Please what satisfaction do people get out of playing the Roman faction? The only Romans I know are the Greeks so it's like asking why are there not two Greek cultures.

Read this to learn where the Romans came from before they had their city Hijacked.
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=el&u=https://chilonas.com/2014/06/27/httpwp-mep1op6y-1v1/&prev=search


"To love Christ -means not to be a hireling, not to look upon a noble life as an enterprise or trade, but to be a true benefactor and to do everything only for the sake of love for God." —St John Chrysostom
"When one returns to the Greek; it is like going into a garden of lilies out of some, narrow and dark house." -Oscar Wilde
"I don't think I'm smarter than you because you believe in God. I think I'm smarter than you because you're absolutely nuts. -Stormraider responding to me."
scragins
Heretic of December
posted 31 May 2020 09:54 AM EDT (US)     2 / 7       
Possibly also that in the AoM campaign Arkantos was Atlantean and most of the campaign was set around the Mediterranean. So, they placed Atlantis near Europe. I do remember some people have identified the coastline used for Atlantis and it matches a real Island (in the Phillipines?).
XLightningStormL
Mortal
(id: TheBronyKing11)
posted 31 May 2020 10:50 PM EDT (US)     3 / 7       
The map design for Atlantis is supposed to be based on Mindanao, though it's position on the map correlates over the Azores, and it's underwater plateau. IRL the Azores are a major contender to be Atlantis (Completely disregarding the dog shit handwave theory relying on I forgot the technical fancy c-word word for it, about Thera, which WASN'T LOCATED PAST THE PILLARS OF HERAKLES BTW!!!) even ES have directly acknowledge this theory as one of the Atlantean AI names is "Azor"

The Atlanteans being snowball "Aryan masterrace" is probably a reference to Hyperborea/Thule, essentially the Atlantean culture in AoM is supposed to be merger of Greeco-Roman cultural elements, with subtle hints to the Mesoamericans, Egyptians and Norse.

Also the Romans = Greeks meme is pretty dry, dumb and basic as an argument, Roman mythology is heavily inspired by, yes, but generally the Roman gods are unique beyond the surface layer, but I'm not surprised considering the people that whine about this belief typically are Greek themselves (despite being more Turkish nowadays...lol also the Byzantines were just Greeks LARPing as Romans lol) ill-informed, or just obsess over the Ancient Greeks.

Lead Designer and Producer of Age of Mythology's biggest mod compilation: http://aom.heavengames.com/downloads/showfile.php?fileid=11038
ephestion
Mortal
posted 31 May 2020 11:34 PM EDT (US)     4 / 7       
Romans = Greeks meme is pretty dry, dumb and basic as an argument
It counters the dry, dumb, basic argument they were Latins and Germanics.


"To love Christ -means not to be a hireling, not to look upon a noble life as an enterprise or trade, but to be a true benefactor and to do everything only for the sake of love for God." —St John Chrysostom
"When one returns to the Greek; it is like going into a garden of lilies out of some, narrow and dark house." -Oscar Wilde
"I don't think I'm smarter than you because you believe in God. I think I'm smarter than you because you're absolutely nuts. -Stormraider responding to me."
Solgudguy
Mortal
posted 01 June 2020 06:52 AM EDT (US)     5 / 7       
@ephestion i agree with you that Romans would be a dumb option to introduce in an expansion, but it's not also true that Greeks are the original Romans, however, the founding of Rome did start after Magna Graecia, Greeks also influenced half of all Rome, but let's not forget the Etruscans, who were first ever to settle on Rome before the Greeks arrived, even the Roman script we use today is based on the Etruscan Alphabet, the basis of Rome was the Etruscans, but saying Romans are Greeks is like saying Germanic peoples are Iranic peoples, as they all are of a single language-family, namely Indo-European, but there are branches, so the Romance branch is different as the Iranic is different to Indic, or the Slavic is different to Nordic, but i do respect your point of how you're indicating the idea, i just cited Romans to point out that the Atlanteans were so much dumb to introduce as a different nation, you got my point, thanks for your answer!

[This message has been edited by Solgudguy (edited 06-01-2020 @ 06:56 AM).]

ephestion
Mortal
posted 01 June 2020 08:45 AM EDT (US)     6 / 7       
The term Greek admittedly is not completely correct they were Arcadians. But by our modern concepts you could interchange the terms Macedonian, Spartan, Athenian, Arcadian etc as Greek. Now if you dispute History and archaeology then there is little point in arguing. But if you are interested in the truth then I posted an article with a broken link so here it is in full:

Here is the paper translated
https://chilonas.com/2014/06/27/httpwp-mep1op6y-1v1/

About the Greek origin of the ancient Romans
Posted by Heilon on 27/06/2014

Written by Archimandrite Fr. Cyril Kefalopoulos, Historian, DSLitt, PhD in Ancient History

At first glance, the title of this article may seem surprising or paradoxical, but there are important and reliable references to ancient Greek and Roman literature that support the original position. According to tradition, the first settlers of the area around the Tiber River and the surrounding hills were of Greek origin and even Arcadian .

The ancient tradition states that Arkadas Evandros was the first to settle in the area, along with other Arcadians, about 60 years before the Trojan War. The exiled king Evandros and the Arcadians who accompanied him settled on the hill they named Palatino or Pallandio , from the homonymous Arcadian city. In this regard, Pausanias writes in " Arkadika" that Arkadas Evandros, who stood out among his compatriots in wisdom and military prowess, was sent as chief of Arcadian colonists from the Arcadian city of Pallandio and founded the first city on the Tiber River. The Romans were aware of the Arcadian origin of the first city before Rome and that is why the emperor Antoninus Pius ("Eusebius") honored the Arcadian Pallantians with privileges (Pausaniou, " Greek Tour", "Arcadian" 43, 1-3) .

Virgil reports that Evandros and the Arcadian settlers came from Arcadian Pallas (Virgil, Aeneas 8.51). Ovid also mentions that when Evandros arrived in the area, he found it deserted and sparsely populated, but Nicostratus' mother prophesied that the place was destined to become the center of a great empire. According to Virgil (Fasti 5,91), Evandros brought with him the worship of the Arcadian Panos and passed it on to the locals.

The above testimonies are confirmed and supported by the ancient geographer Strabo , who states that Rome was a colony of Arcadians founded by Evandros, who even hosted the hero Hercules when the latter was traveling west to find the bulls of Giryonis. Strabo mentions that from the days of Evandros it was established that the Romans offered sacrifices to Hercules and honored him as their patriarchal hero. Strabo also writes that the Romans also honor Evandros' mother, Nicostratus, whom they call Carthage (Strabo, " Geographically" 5, 3,3). Plutarch records the existence of an altar in honor of Nicostratus - Carmentius near the wall of Rome (Plutarch, " Romulus", 21).

But the first kings of Rome were also of Greek descent. In this regard, Plutarch writes that the Pelasgians (ie Greek Pelasgians) were the first inhabitants of Rome and named the city after the power ( rum ) of their weapons (Plutarch, " Romulus" , 1). But the considered Roman king of Etruscan descent, Lucius Tarquinius Priscus, was the son of the exiled Demiratus , a nobleman of the Bacchians of Corinth, who in the 7th century BC. chased by the tyrant Kypselos , he settled in Etruria and became king in Tyrrhenia / Etruria (Strabo, " Geographically", 8,6,20, cf. Titus Livius, 1,33).

It is worth noting that the Roman kingdom of Tarkyn of the Elder was decisive for the formation and subsequent development of the ancient city of Rome. Tarquinius designed the great Roman stadium (Circus Maximus) and founded the temple of Zeus on the Capitoline Hill, he designed the walls of Rome built by the Etruscans and the city's first sewer system. Even the emblems of Roman power, axes and fasces were introduced by Tarkynios the Elder, according to Dionysius of Alikarnassus in his " Roman Archeology" .

There are also references in the ancient literature to the fact that the ancient patriarchal sacred institutions and customs of Rome were Greek. For example, Plutarch refers to the ancient Roman religious holiday of Lupercalia , which in Greek means " Wolves " and is an indication of the Arcadian origin of the holiday, apparently introduced by Evandros (Plutarch, "R omylos" , 21).

But the language of the Romans was also Greek. Plutarch mentions that the ancient Romans originally spoke Greek before the Italian / Latin words prevailed in the speech of the Romans (Plutarch, " Romulus" , 15). Also, Dionysios Alikarnassus writes in " Roman Archeology" that the Latin language has many similarities with ancient Aeolian, which is probably an evolution.

As ancient Rome expanded its dominance in Latvia and central Italy, subjugating neighboring peoples, the original Roman population became associated with the Savvins, Etruscans, Tyrrhenians, and gradually dominated the Latin and Italian elements. However, it is worth noting that these peoples (Etruscans, Tyrrhenians) also belonged to the wider Greek-Pelasgian homosexuality, as Strabo mentions in the 5th book of his " Geographical".


"To love Christ -means not to be a hireling, not to look upon a noble life as an enterprise or trade, but to be a true benefactor and to do everything only for the sake of love for God." —St John Chrysostom
"When one returns to the Greek; it is like going into a garden of lilies out of some, narrow and dark house." -Oscar Wilde
"I don't think I'm smarter than you because you believe in God. I think I'm smarter than you because you're absolutely nuts. -Stormraider responding to me."
Solgudguy
Mortal
posted 01 June 2020 12:23 PM EDT (US)     7 / 7       
Greco-Roman relations in classical antiquity
Greeks had settled in Southern Italy and Sicily since the 8th century BC . In this way, Italian tribes came into contact with Greek culture very early on and were influenced by it. The alphabet, weights and measures, coinage, many gods and
cults as well as the building of temples were derived from the Greeks.
The Romans came into contact with Greek culture a fourth time during the conquest of Magna Graecia , Mainland Greece and the " Hellenistic countries" (countries that had been marked by Greek culture and language ) in the 2nd and the
1st centuries BC . The Romans, who had defeated
Carthage but were still a society of peasants, saw in Hellenistic cities that daily life could be more comfortable than theirs. Formerly sparsely-ornamented houses acquired columns, statues, mosaics on the floors, tapestries and paintings on the walls. One didn't have dinner while sitting any more, but while reclining, according to Greek custom.
The Romans gained from the Greek influence in other areas: trade, banking, administration, art, literature, philosophy and earth science. In the last century BC it was a must for every rich young man to study in Athens or Rhodes and perfect their knowledge of rhetoric at the large schools of philosophy . It was also a must to speak Greek as well as one's mother tongue in Rome.
There were some who resisted this Greek influence on every aspect of life. For example,
Cato the Elder prophesied Rome 's demise; he considered everything Greek to be suspect; he even mistrusted Greek doctors and claimed that they only wanted to poison Romans.
Indeed, some Greeks might have had every reason to hate the Romans, who had devastated their home, robbed temples and public buildings, decimated the population and brought many Greeks to Rome as slaves. Aemilius Paulus , the victor of the Battle of Pydna in Greece in 168 BC, is said to have sold 150,000 Greeks to Rome as slaves all by himself.
Romans matched the Greeks in terms of culture , partly because of the Greeks who voluntarily or involuntarily fought in Rome . Greek cities like Ephesus or Athens flourished during the long era of peace (Pax Romana ) more than ever. Though Greek, cities like Ephesus were not explicitly distinctive from Roman cities. Because of the general prosperity, there was no revolt against Roman rule, which was even seen as positive.

Notes
1. ^ "What ideas did the Romans borrow from the Greeks?"
. Reference.com . Retrieved 8 January 2017.
2. ^ a b "Ancient Roman Art and Architecture" .
The New Book of Knowledge . Retrieved 8 January 2017.
3. ^ Liv. “The History of Rome” 32.33
4. ^ Strab. “Geography” 7.fragments 21a
5. ^ Hor.[Citation URI: http://data.perseus.org/citations/urn:cts:latinLit:phi0893.phi001.perseus-eng1:3.6
“Odes”]3.6
6. ^ Paus. “Description of Greece” 7.8, 8.51
7. ^ Plut. "Life of Aemilius" 29.3
8. ^ C. Ando, "Images of Emperor and Empire," in Imperial Ideology and Provincial Loyalty in the Roman Empire (Berkeley: University of California Press, 2000), ch. 7.
You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Hop to:    

Age of Mythology Heaven | HeavenGames