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Topic Subject: The 5 major problems in age of mythology that make it inferior to other AOE2/3 2.9 patch focus
posted 03 January 2021 08:39 AM EDT (US)   
To give some context, after not playing the game for about 15 years. I decided to redownload age of mythology and play a Conqueror "Sudden Death" map(My favorite map in the game).

Odin vs Poseidon 1vs1 AI hard difficulty game to relive a childhood nostalgia of the game only to be disappointed that the game still has same problems it always had. The match took 4 hours to beat. (I was testing Odin changes)

In my opinion, the generic problem in this game is that there is no way to push a "Real Military Lead" and convert it into a win naturally. The game relies too much on Titans to be game enders and Wonders which ruins satisfaction of winning in the game.

Even when having 10 towers, 5 forts in front of AI base, 10 barracks constantly spamming units (Often hard counter units), it was very hard to beat the AI who just spams random units from barracks, archery ranges defending the base.

Here are 5 outline problems to why this is the case

1) Unit deployment is not sharp enough. Units that say they hard counter X type of unit are not good enough to counter X unit.

In the late game, It is too easy just spam generic armies of like 10 range unit, 10 soldiers, 2 myth units, 2 siege and come out even. There lack of consequence for making the right decisions.

You test this out, Put 10 norse axeman, 10 axeman calvery(Huskarl), 2 Einherjar vs 10 toxotes, 10 Hippikon, 2 centaurs vs AI. The fight will be very close even despite fact that 10 axeman should kill 10 Hippikons infantry units quickly and 10 huskarl should beat 10 toxotes in the end game.

2) Minor gods are not balanced correctly. Take Odin's gods for example. Why would anyone take Freyja over Heimdal when Odin's passive heals units out of combat. The same can be said for Skadi vs Njord, Skati has 3 useful techs+good myth unit where as Njord only has kraken for water maps. Baldr has arguably only useful myth unit for Norse in the Fire giant where Tyr is only good for his godpower. Over-time benefits of always having Fire giant is usually better than burst power if you can survive.

In my opinion, All minor gods should be worth getting and they should have inherent trade offs. I.E 1 minor god is good for godpower impact vs 1 is good for outstanding myth unit+Military tech etc.

3) Myth units & Siege are not impactful enough. Some myth units are good, others are worthless. They get too hardcountered by heroes even though they're only unit that is unique. What's the point of using myth units if they are not rewarding to use compare to normal army units in most cases. Siege units are not strong enough to siege while an army is distracted. Just compare siege in Age of myth vs Age of empire 3 impact.

Myth units should feel good to use & Siege should siege buildings quickly. It would help push leads in destroying barracks that spam units when your the attacker.

4) God powers are too limited in usage. The fact that many of them are trash is another matter altogether, but even when god a power is strong, you do not get enough times impact the game with it. For example, Baldr's final god power is Ragnarok, It turns all villagers into warrior hero units. For a final god power, its impact is very niche and even if this power could be used indefinite amount of times. it would not be a great godpower.

Godpowers would be more interesting if each god power had static cooldown(Short ones for weak ones, long ones for strong) rather than their 1 time use. e.g 5 minutes for Raknerok, 15 minutes for Great Flood etc. It would add a layer of "Wow cool moments". It would add a layer of decision making to Minor gods.

An Idea: What if all faction had unique way to restore a godpower.

Greek - Pay 100 favor for 1 god power

Egypt - Monuments restore God powers over-time very slowly

Norse - Heroes killing myth units restore god powers slowly.

China - Shrine can restore god powers slowly

Atlantian - Relics in temples restore god powers slowly(?)

5) Population cap is too tight. Considering that you want 10 villagers on food, 10 on wood, 5 on coin, 10 cattle's or more on market place, you can clearly see how half of population is used up on economy before even considering military. Let people modify population cap like in age of empire 2 or raise natural pop cap to accommodate economy.

I found it very amusing that having an AI attack me the entire game that eventually bugs out and stop attacking me ends up being able to just mindless spam units in city where it became nearly impossible to siege was a very amusing experience, but what it shows is that the game can only be won economically(Ai cheats economy) and not military through smart-play which takes a lot of skill out of the game. Just my opinion for why AOE2 and AOE3 are better games than Age of Myth. This game holds great potential to be very good RTS game but it just falls short from potentially being the best RTS game even surpassing AOE2.

I know next update patch is June and this post will be buried by that time, but I would like developers to read this post and remember it.

Thank you.
Replies:
posted 03 January 2021 12:03 PM EDT (US)     1 / 11  

AI is quite broken, but it's easy enough to beat if you attack very early on, and steal it's Town Centers. I used to beat 2 Hard AI's using Odin.

Some of the God powers are too destructive, it wouldn't really work if they are rechargeable, I think. Zeus' bolt decides the early map control for example. Multiple use of Dwarven mine or Meteor would be too unfair.

I agree with the myth units, they could have been much much better. If I had to redesign, I would cut the hero units completely. It honestly makes no sense to counter an expensive unit with a much much cheaper unit.
posted 03 January 2021 03:48 PM EDT (US)     2 / 11  
You did not read this post correctly.

Sudden Death is MAP on Age of mythology where you start with citadel and no town centers by default(it is possible to have a town center in the middle). I am aware that Ai is cheesable but I am not talking about that. If they wanted, they could easily patch that out and your cheeses against AI would not be effective. There's nothing wrong with AI, many AI are coded with cheats in higher difficulties. What is impressive what AI is showcasing as problem in how end games are stalemated and how effective turtling is as strategy in the end game and how the game very much relies on Wonder win condition or Titans to end the game over raw military skill in microing units effectively.

Realize that cooldowns of god powers that 15 minute long in MOST GAMES would not be used more than once. They would only be used more then once in long drawn out games. In fact, Chinese already have god power in the dragon with static cooldown so its not like developers haven't already implemented a mechanic like this and the devs already saw this as problem because atlanteans already have MUTIPLE usages of god powers.

I can think very few god powers that are actual game changers and those that are would have much higher cost. I only suggest custom way get it as it would be every race unique but I can see that it might be harder to balance depending on how easy it would be. Hypothetically suppose mechanic of greeks was to pay favor to gain back a god power, they'd need to pay like 2000 favor to get back another use of Lightning storm(goes by 100's per pay). I would say though that most of god powers are like throw away abilities like Gaia's Forest growing power or Ra's rain that probably wouldn't be broken even if you could use more then once with lower cooldown than 15 minutes.

Bronze armor
Unlimited resource stash
Hera Lightning storm
Earthquake
Cyclone
Great flood
Meteor storm
Flaming weapons

Anyhow this post is just my opinion on the game on why I think that Age of myth will never really be popular RTS game like AOE2 is and how AOE3 has potencial to be. I do think it has potencial though to replace AOE2 as both games are quite close though it needs a lot of work as stated in the post regarding "end game", gameplay decision making, army micro management etc.

As I said, all the problems in my post are perfect observable in the game. they would be the same 15 years ago as they are today.

[This message has been edited by DODANG914 (edited 01-03-2021 @ 03:52 PM).]

posted 03 January 2021 05:43 PM EDT (US)     3 / 11  

I read original post, all the other points were quite universal, and I answered them.

I have to disagree with the AI, it's quite broken, and it's quite easy to use a horse to drag it's armies around the map. It never attacks, if you are stronger and better defended than the AI. It usually has a very predictable pattern. It's quite vulnerable to ranged buildings.

I have to disagree with the Titans and the Wonders. I almost
never use either of those, and still defeat the AI. It really doesn't have to last 4 hours. Most games end in 20-40 minutes. Even in Sudden death.

I agree that minor gods are not perfectly balanced but I have to disagree with the Freyja part. Most Odin players pick Freyja because Valkyrie are usually stronger than most other classical age myth units. Tyr military upgrades are quite powerful too. I have seen players devastate enemy towns with large packs of Fenris wolves.

I honestly wouldn't want my enemy to have multiple pestilence, or eclipse god powers. Online games really wouldn't function if everyone uses their god powers every 15 mins.
posted 03 January 2021 11:04 PM EDT (US)     4 / 11  
TL: DR - OP is a smoothbrained simpleton, and should go back to playing AoE2 if AoM is "so hard" and "complex" for them.

EDIT: GIT GUD

1)
a) Yeah this is a pretty big issue in AoM, Idk ES wanted to simplify the description so much, but the gist is that units are divided into soft counters (are better against on average, think Scout Cav vs Archers, Hoplites vs Cav but need mass to be viable) and hard counters (Prodromos, AoE2 Spearman, etc)
b) Meta is funny, isn't it? Also doesn't help that population is a more important resource than previous games, partially to help with 2001's average CPUs/GPUs but also to enforce Settlement combat.
c) of course a ranged MU is going to beat an infantry MU lol, counter triangle son.

2) I'd rather diversity in tech tree that's unbalanced than having the same bland tech tree for every civ, you can play any civ in AoE2, and there will only be minor differences, with civ bonuses designed for certain strat-types, but beyond that you are still playing the same civ.

Also how is that any different from any other Age game OP?

3) That's the whole point MU > HU > Hero > MU, clearly you aren't playing the game properly, it's also a design choice.

4) Design decision, GPs aren't supposed to be common things you spam every 2 seconds, otherwise they'd become boring, overused, and overpowered.

5) Design decision that speeds up the game by making TCs and population an important resource, rather than a nuisance, I don't particularly love it either, but I think it's great for the identity for the game.
5b) FOUND THE GAME JOURNALIST

Also AoM is a far better game than "generic RTS that's a reskin of AoE1 with Medieval elements and QoL features" and "generic tech demo that was created due to executive meddling with no soul, and dumb design decisions that doesn't even feel like it belongs in the series"

If you love AoE2 so much, why don't you just go back and play that outdated, overrated game? In fact, I like people like you, because it helps protect the game when you smoothbrain soyboys like to vidya-gentrify anything that is from a "nostalgic era" so you wankers tend to only act as if AoE2 is the only game in the series, and if that leaves AoM away from being reaped by MS to make an awful DE that's AoMEE's launch state on steroids with fancy graphics, fine.

Creator of AoM Expanded Mod (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1828492742) and Mod on AoEWiki (Morayus1)

[This message has been edited by XLightningStormL (edited 01-03-2021 @ 11:05 PM).]

posted 03 January 2021 11:05 PM EDT (US)     5 / 11  

Current Projects:
Legends of Middle-Earth 5.0 LoME Spring 2021 Update!Legend of Zelda V1.1 Modpackpack Released! Have a nice day.
posted 05 January 2021 02:59 PM EDT (US)     6 / 11  
If your using memes to discredit the post than it must mean that this post actually has merit and in some regards has some truth to it as your unable to rationally argue about or disapprove its legitimacy.

Look I have been playing Titan difficulty and i decided to do a mirror match up of Isis vs Ra on the map "River Styx". The end game is very similar. the computer attacks, than eventually stops attacking(bugs?) and than it takes a really long time(like 2 hours) to win in the end game from excessive strength of turtling in the game.

The post has nothing to do with "Meta". Couldn't care less about it. It has everything to do with how "END GAME" is conducted. I am aware of that you can send small "fake armies" to trick the AI into following your units and then attack the base while the AI leaves its base undefended but this is NOT the point of the post. The post is not about "YOUR AI IS BAD, IMPROVE AI TO BE SMARTER". I do not list this as a problem but it might good thing to look into making a better and smart AI in the game.

As I state in the original post. If you try to "brute force" attack armies head on in the late game. there are a bunch of reasons that I list for why I think the "dull down" into not being able to deliver decisive blows and sieges.

Which were:

1) Armies are not rock paper scissors(Defeats purpose of scouting in the game), creates a problem where current army numerical advantage can be overturned by base defenders without significant damage to the base.
2) Siege is not strong enough or quick enough at destroying builds
3) Myth units in general are pointless game-flavor as most of them are not particularly useful or game changing.
4) God powers range from Useful to bad & only give a single chance to be game-enders otherwise are a waste(There is no way to get god powers back).
5) as a result of point 3 and 4, Minor god are not exactly too well balanced. Not much critical decision making.

Unfortunately, there does not seem to be too much critical discussion so I'm not sure why I even bother posting. Anyhow these ideas are more related to making "End game" of Age of mythology more enjoyable and more skillful than again, the game is pretty old so I'd guess its dead game anyway by now.
posted 05 January 2021 03:31 PM EDT (US)     7 / 11  
I agree with the rock paper scissor mechanic, that's not programmed very well.

Siege is problematic vs the AI, because the AI cheats. And it's worse on the Sudden Death Map. Resource cheating is actually a major problem. No idea why you are okay with the AI cheating. All the God Powers are quite useful. Some of them are more useful and less situational then others.

But I have to disagree with the re-usable god powers. I don't want to imagine the Titan AI, using those God-powers multiple times. Underworld Passage alone is quite deadly.

I don't think you are playing this game online. Bolt or Eclipse, usually change the pace of the game, permanently. I guess you can use the cheat DIVINE INTERVENTION vs the AI, to use your godpower multiple times.

Most siege weapons are quite OP, after the upgrades. 3 Ballista with the upgrades can take down most buildings, with little or no help from others.

Myth units are usually strong for their respective ages. I don't fully agree with the Hero system in the game, but Colossus, Mummy, Heka Gigantes, are all quite strong, having myth units in your army always makes the game easier.


I don't disagree with the general statement here about the units, population cap, and some of the issues. In fact I was the one, who reached out to interviewers to ask the devs about the population cap, and it's made moddable in the newest patch.

I just have to disagree with the suggested fixes for the God Powers and such. 1 son of osiris is deadly enough. I can't imagine anyone having 3, in one game.
posted 06 January 2021 11:57 AM EDT (US)     8 / 11  
@DODANG914

Ah yes, the old "I have a big brain" and a thousand other lies you can tell yourself.

Most of the stuff you are complaining about is because you are an AoE2 Fanboy, which mind you, had far worse problems, there is bugger all "critical thinking" in that beyond booming, and spamming trash armies or Skirmishers + Knights.

Once again,
1) Literally in every Age of Empires game, why are you even complaining about it?
2) Buildings are destroyed by Siege far quicker than AoE2, because buildings in AoM have far lower hitpoints, and armour than AoE2, not to mention the addition of the Crush damage/armourtype.
3) Still used because they are better than human units, directly conflicting with your statement.
4) Design Decision by ES, as WinterGod said, having three Sons of Osirises are not going to be fun. Eclipse, Ceasefire and practically any other major GP are too powerful to be used more than once - AN INTENDED GAME FEATURE!
5) Think of Minor gods like civs in AoE2, they have their benefits and choices, and you can't have more than one at a time (well age-wise in AoM)

Also, 'nice' way of twisting your points into completely different points really 'helps your argument' NOT.

Play multiplayer anytime, and your points will become ash, but you won't because it wouldn't suit your argument.

Creator of AoM Expanded Mod (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1828492742) and Mod on AoEWiki (Morayus1)
posted 08 January 2021 11:16 PM EDT (US)     9 / 11  
I replied with a meme because your arguments aren't really worth the effort of deposing. But once you've come back with with some citable ranked game evidence of your debate, I'll give you the time of day.

Current Projects:
Legends of Middle-Earth 5.0 LoME Spring 2021 Update!Legend of Zelda V1.1 Modpackpack Released! Have a nice day.
posted 20 April 2021 11:42 AM EDT (US)     10 / 11  
Welp, looks like this thread got my curiosity and so it happens I had to check this out, lol.
To give some context, after not playing the game for about 15 years. I decided to redownload age of mythology and play a Conqueror "Sudden Death" map(My favorite map in the game).

Odin vs Poseidon 1vs1 AI hard difficulty game to relive a childhood nostalgia of the game only to be disappointed that the game still has same problems it always had. The match took 4 hours to beat. (I was testing Odin changes)

In my opinion, the generic problem in this game is that there is no way to push a "Real Military Lead" and convert it into a win naturally. The game relies too much on Titans to be game enders and Wonders which ruins satisfaction of winning in the game.

Even when having 10 towers, 5 forts in front of AI base, 10 barracks constantly spamming units (Often hard counter units), it was very hard to beat the AI who just spams random units from barracks, archery ranges defending the base.....
I never even had any difficulty facing the AI on hard, tbh. I've always found it easy, even when I play it fair (e.g. no building walls early on to delay AI attacks, no bait tactics etc). It usually takes me around 10-15 minutes beating hard AI. I've even had to nerf myself to get a challenge from the AI, lol.

The only difficulty I've had personally, is whenever I play Greeks against a Titan AI, as their units are the most expensive, so it's harder to mass early on. But even so, the god powers early on are sufficient enough to allow me to survive the first skirmishes.
I found it very amusing that having an AI attack me the entire game that eventually bugs out and stop attacking me ends up being able to just mindless spam units in city where it became nearly impossible to siege was a very amusing experience, but what it shows is that the game can only be won economically(Ai cheats economy) and not military through smart-play which takes a lot of skill out of the game. Just my opinion for why AOE2 and AOE3 are better games than Age of Myth. This game holds great potential to be very good RTS game but it just falls short from potentially being the best RTS game even surpassing AOE2.
This post was enough to trigger the hell out of me.

Are you kidding me? You played Odin.. a norse civ with great hunt as a god power... you have NO excuse for lasting THAT long against a hard AI.. This is evident that you're not a good player.. and are just trashing at the game, because you're mad the AI embarrassed you.

I mean, Odin!! Jesus Christ.. it's one of the easiest civs to play.. you should be mass-producing soldiers as early as 5 minutes to harass enemy vills, no matter whether you're playing hard AI, or against other players.

The reason you're failing against it, is because you're letting the AI rebuild its losses. Cut the AI's means of recuperating its economy, and its resistance falls flat. That's where raiding comes in - kill enemy vills to cut its economy; hit and run. That's the "military through smart-play" that you're missing.

Don't trash the game just because you're bad at playing it.


And now that you bring up AoE2.. Imo, AoE2 is a stupid game that's way too overrated. I'm sorry. At least with random maps, AoM actually MADE an effort to vary where and what the resources are.. In AoE2, no matter what map you are in, you literally start off the map with the same shit:

-- some sheep near the TC
-- a bunch of berries near the TC
-- oh look, a gold mine that's very conveniently placed near TC
-- oh, a boar that is - yeah.. very conveniently placed near the TC.

It doesn't give you much of an incentive to explore or even be creative, when the map is literally holding your hand like this. It's boring as hell, all you have to do is just remember your build orders and that's it.

If you're used to lame gameplay like this, it's no wonder AoM's hard AI trashed you....
And don't even get me started on AoE3. It's utter garbage.
1) Unit deployment is not sharp enough. Units that say they hard counter X type of unit are not good enough to counter X unit.

In the late game, It is too easy just spam generic armies of like 10 range unit, 10 soldiers, 2 myth units, 2 siege and come out even. There lack of consequence for making the right decisions.

You test this out, Put 10 norse axeman, 10 axeman calvery(Huskarl), 2 Einherjar vs 10 toxotes, 10 Hippikon, 2 centaurs vs AI. The fight will be very close even despite fact that 10 axeman should kill 10 Hippikons infantry units quickly and 10 huskarl should beat 10 toxotes in the end game.

....

If you try to "brute force" attack armies head on in the late game. there are a bunch of reasons that I list for why I think the "dull down" into not being able to deliver decisive blows and sieges.

Which were:

1) Armies are not rock paper scissors(Defeats purpose of scouting in the game), creates a problem where current army numerical advantage can be overturned by base defenders without significant damage to the base.
This is why you scout the enemy, you donkey. So that you can see what units your enemy specializes in order to come up with a counter. If you're just blindly attacking with no intel, you're just wasting resources.

And why are you brute force attacking armies head on? You do realize that the hard AI gets big bonuses when they're gathering resources right? And you do know that more resources = more troops, right? And yet you're wondering how the AI could mass produce troops like rabbits, lol.


Here's some advice for you when you're fighting hard AI: raid asap. Get a raiding army and go vill hunting, while avoiding AI's troops. Do what you can to cripple the AI's means of getting resources. Replenish raiding army losses and repeat. Also, just in case, station a defending army in your home town. Eventually, the AI would find it very hard to get wood and gold, and this cuts their ability to build more troops. So whenever you feel your defending army is decent enough, attack the AI, and you'll win.

Norse are very good at this, coz they have cheap troops, raiding cavalry, and infantry can be used to build towers at key resource points around the AI's TC.
2) Minor gods are not balanced correctly. Take Odin's gods for example. Why would anyone take Freyja over Heimdal when Odin's passive heals units out of combat. The same can be said for Skadi vs Njord, Skati has 3 useful techs+good myth unit where as Njord only has kraken for water maps. Baldr has arguably only useful myth unit for Norse in the Fire giant where Tyr is only good for his godpower. Over-time benefits of always having Fire giant is usually better than burst power if you can survive.

In my opinion, All minor gods should be worth getting and they should have inherent trade offs. I.E 1 minor god is good for godpower impact vs 1 is good for outstanding myth unit+Military tech etc.
What you're stating is just nonsense, tbh. All minor gods have their useful perks, and selecting one is based on what situation you're in, or what major god you started with.

The same goes for your Skadi vs Njord point. Idk where you got your point from, but both are useful in certain situations. Skadi like you said, has good myth and a lot of perks, and her god power is highly useful. But Njord is good too. Mountain Giants are awesome, and his god power can be used on enemy wood sites to harass (and kill) enemy vills, cripple enemy's wood econ, and even distract your opponent.

Also, some god powers can strategically even prevent your enemy from invoking their god powers as well. I think Isis' prosperity and Tyr's god power are among them, but it's been a while since I've played, so can't remember well.
3) Myth units & Siege are not impactful enough. Some myth units are good, others are worthless. They get too hardcountered by heroes even though they're only unit that is unique. What's the point of using myth units if they are not rewarding to use compare to normal army units in most cases. Siege units are not strong enough to siege while an army is distracted. Just compare siege in Age of myth vs Age of empire 3 impact.

Myth units should feel good to use & Siege should siege buildings quickly. It would help push leads in destroying barracks that spam units when your the attacker.
Hard disagree.

I believe the designers balanced them well enough. Myth units are strong and its effectiveness depends on what age they're made available. And their diversities in advantages and utility can influence what minor god you pick depending on the situation.

And most myth units especially in later ages are impactful enough to affect the game. Medusa can one-hit kill any unit within range, Heka Gigantes are a problem to deal with, Mummy can one-hit kill any unit and spawn an a minion, Argus same as Medusa but close range... and Colossus can even be used to eat away your opponent's gold mines alongside its massive HP and longevity. All that variety is nice.


Siege units having too much of an impact was also one of the reasons that put me off AoE2. They were just too OP. I've seen competitive games where players just spam nothing but onagers to win their games, and it's just stupid and ridiculous, imo.
4) God powers are too limited in usage. The fact that many of them are trash is another matter altogether, but even when god a power is strong, you do not get enough times impact the game with it. For example, Baldr's final god power is Ragnarok, It turns all villagers into warrior hero units. For a final god power, its impact is very niche and even if this power could be used indefinite amount of times. it would not be a great godpower.

Godpowers would be more interesting if each god power had static cooldown(Short ones for weak ones, long ones for strong) rather than their 1 time use. e.g 5 minutes for Raknerok, 15 minutes for Great Flood etc. It would add a layer of "Wow cool moments". It would add a layer of decision making to Minor gods.

An Idea: What if all faction had unique way to restore a godpower.

Greek - Pay 100 favor for 1 god power
Egypt - Monuments restore God powers over-time very slowly
Norse - Heroes killing myth units restore god powers slowly.
China - Shrine can restore god powers slowly
Atlantian - Relics in temples restore god powers slowly(?)
Then that just makes everything too boring, doesn't it? I mean, for god sake, it just makes the whole idea of creating troops utterly pointless. With your idea, if I was Greeks, then I'd just make a billion villagers and make them do nothing but pray in temples to get 100 favor as fast as I can to get god powers again.

See the problem here?

Screw having to distribute villagers to get 3 different resources for troops.. what's the point? Just get a hundred villagers to get favor in order to get OP god powers to screw over everything. As Greeks, I'll be just relying on one resource, and that's it... that's not very inspiring gameplay, is it?


And how does it "add a layer to decision making" with OP god powers being re-usable? It's actually the opposite... having one time use forces the player to decide when to use it, and whether it's the right time to use it or not. E.g. take "bolt".. saving it for when you really need it can be a lifesaver and could even save you when you're in trouble. Some people use it to take out a key unit (e.g. Bellerophon, catapult, son of osiris etc) to increase the odds of surviving, and some players use it to take out enemy vills to cripple their economy. A down-time is gonna take away that "decision making". Players will just spam it willy nilly whenever it's available, and in some cases, it's just going to either prolong battles or make players quit because their loss was unfair.

Not to mention, it takes away the strategy of the whole game if something like that got implemented on all civs.

EDIT: and imagine if bolt is recycled over and over again. Any Zeus player can kill a Titan in 4 hits of that thing. How the hell is this balance? Where's the strategy or "decision making" in that?


And for god sake, "many of them are trash" (did you say this to get a rise out of people? Because it did to me).. no, you just don't know how to use them properly, you idiot. That "Ragnarok" power that you're trashing is damn useful as hell, and can sometimes turn the tide of the game to anyone's favor when used at the right time. And by endgame, you should have half of your population being villagers.. you even said it yourself:
you can clearly see how half of population is used up on economy before even considering military.
Now, imagine if all these guys turn into soldiers - all heroes, with more attack power, and more durability. That last resort can turn the tides to your favor. Ragnarok has saved me in some matches way back.
5) Population cap is too tight. Considering that you want 10 villagers on food, 10 on wood, 5 on coin, 10 cattle's or more on market place, you can clearly see how half of population is used up on economy before even considering military. Let people modify population cap like in age of empire 2 or raise natural pop cap to accommodate economy.
I agree with this one, though.
This is pretty much the only thing you've said that I agree with, lol.

I always found the pop cap in AoM being way too tight and restrictive, and like you said.. roughly half the population consists of villagers to keep your economy running, and with infantry costing 2 pop, cav being 3 pop, myth being 5 pop etc, the pop cap is just way too restrictive and requires tight planning and managing to get some breathing room.

[This message has been edited by Mazeppa (edited 04-21-2021 @ 08:06 AM).]

posted 20 April 2021 11:53 PM EDT (US)     11 / 11  
God, the fact that I have to double-post because I see even more stupidity from the OP is just concerning.
Look I have been playing Titan difficulty and i decided to do a mirror match up of Isis vs Ra on the map "River Styx". The end game is very similar. the computer attacks, than eventually stops attacking(bugs?) and than it takes a really long time(like 2 hours) to win in the end game from excessive strength of turtling in the game.
You're facing difficulties in Hard AI, and then you choose to play against Titan? I mean, look.. the reason you're struggling for two hours against Hard AI is because you're shit. That's it... Play easy difficulty instead of whining like an idiot because your skills are crap and you can't win against a harder AI.


EDIT: I just played a match against Hard AI with a random god: Loki, in Sudden Death, fair play (no baiting or taking advantage of the AI) and I beat it in 17:09. So what's your point? What's all this whining about, lol?



It's confirmed..
You're actually just pretty shit at the game.
As I state in the original post. If you try to "brute force" attack armies head on in the late game. there are a bunch of reasons that I list for why I think the "dull down" into not being able to deliver decisive blows and sieges.
It's because you're crap, and instead of blaming your own skills and competence in the game not being up to par, you're blaming the game... Blame everything but yourself.

Read my advice on fighting hard AI in the post above if you want to improve. The reason you're struggling is BECAUSE you're turtling like a newbie instead of trying to be active and target/ disrupt AI's econ... Why is it that I can win against hard AI in 17 minutes, but you can't? Don't blame the game for your incompetence, mate.
1) Armies are not rock paper scissors(Defeats purpose of scouting in the game), creates a problem where current army numerical advantage can be overturned by base defenders without significant damage to the base.
1) Now that I read it again,
what the hell am I even reading?

-- Archers > Infantry > Cavalry > Archers.
-- Myth Units > Human units
-- Heroes > Myth Units


What's so hard to understand? And yes, there are counter units like axemen, hypaspists, prodomoi, huskarl etc that can counter other types, and that makes AoM much better overall. This way, it's more dynamic and offers more flavor and strategy in the game. Even the Atlanteans follow that dynamic range, which improves AoM's flavor in gameplay (e.g. Caladria as support units, all human units being heroes etc).

And that literally IS why SCOUTING is IMPORTANT, you retard. So that you can take advantage of the weaknesses you find in the enemy's army and make troops to counter it easier.

And then later on, you say "God powers are trash" when METEOR, TORNADO, AND EQ LITERALLY ALLOWS YOU TO DESTROY THE BASE... The very thing you're complaining about. FROST freezes the defenders and let you destroy the base... Pestilence makes a base defenseless after you clear out the defenders...

Dumb argument from you here, tbh.
2) Siege is not strong enough or quick enough at destroying builds.
2) Dunno about your game.. but it's the complete opposite in mine.. Ballistas in particular are very strong, and a fully upgraded one is very OP, and can even kill units close by.. and portable rams are scary because their rate of attack is the best from all other siege units. And catapults can destroy buildings with ease; 1 shot can destroy a house (there goes the pop), 2 shots a tower etc.

You literally have no idea what you're talking about with this.
3) Myth units in general are pointless game-flavor as most of them are not particularly useful or game changing.
3) Dunno what kind of game you're playing... because if you're saying that while playing against an AI, I'll tell you that myth units had more impact for me in winning against hard and titan AI, both in classical and heroic.

And against AI, it's easier compared to playing competitively... MU's can sponge attacks from opposing Towers and TC's, so 1 or 2 MU's in your army is enough to wreck havoc already against any AI.. hard, titan etc. All it takes it micromanaging and that's it.

Secondly, AI don't micromanage like human players, so you don't even have to worry about whether a Cyclops or Minotaur's special power would connect, or whether your troops are fighting bad matchups.
4) God powers range from Useful to bad & only give a single chance to be game-enders otherwise are a waste(There is no way to get god powers back).
4) Like I said in my previous post, the fact that they all give a player economic, military, logistic, destructive, and sabotaging advantages is precisely why they shouldn't be re-usable.. it just ruins the balance and gameplay.

E.g. Having 5 nidhoggs or Sons of Osiris in a match is just silly, and imagine an AI having that? Even having multiple non-destructive powers like Lures, Dwarven Mines, Great Hunt, Plenty, is enough to discourage scouting and exploration. What's the point of exploring for gold if you can just plop one every 5 minutes? And imagine prosperity.. An 80% bonus on gold harvesting is no joke, and yet you're suggesting they should be re-usable?

Same thing with vision and spy... multiple visions take away the exploring element, and one spy is enough to give a player a big advantage in knowing where enemy vills are.. having many of them is just silly and too OP.

And don't get me started with EQ, Meteor, Lightning storm, Fimbulwinter etc.. they're already OP enough. Why even bother making them re-usable. It just ruins balance. Same with Underworld, Shifting Sands, Vortex, etc.
5) as a result of point 3 and 4, Minor god are not exactly too well balanced. Not much critical decision making.
5) Like I said above, choosing minor gods depends on the situation you're facing, as well as what major gods you've chose. And there is enough critical decision making to factor which minor god chose. E.g. Take Egypt's Age 4 gods:

Osiris -- Son of Osiris, which is deadly.. 2 pharaohs, mummy MU, improved camels.
Thoth -- Meteors, insta-train fort units, faster resource gather (complements insta-train), Phoenix MU.
Horus -- Tornado, Avengers one of the best MU's, Spearmen harder to kill, Axemen 3x vs buildings.


Choosing either depends on your major god and your situation, which are factors in decision making, but they're all great minor gods that give equally good benefits.

Same with Greeks. Heph's plenty is great economy wise, but if your economy is already good enough, what's the point? Heph also makes armory improvements cheaper, which is great if you haven't spend much on them before. Hera and Artemis all have great benefits too, lightning and EQ are amazing god powers, and medusa and chimera are godly MU's. Hera also has MU benefits, whereas Artemis has archer benefits (great for Hades players).
Unfortunately, there does not seem to be too much critical discussion so I'm not sure why I even bother posting. Anyhow these ideas are more related to making "End game" of Age of mythology more enjoyable and more skillful than again, the game is pretty old so I'd guess its dead game anyway by now.
For you, but to me, your suggestions are pretty dumb, aside from the pop cap, that is..

I guess people like you really just piss me off in general.. srsly, I don't know just what is it with this trend nowadays, where users make stupid essays in trying to push their silly narrative that "this is better" and "that is better". I've seen it a lot in manga discussions lately, and seems this idiotic trend migrated to gaming.

And you're just playing against an AI and not competitively, so your ideas are just stupid and not worth anything in the end. You say god powers are shit, play the game competitively and you'll see just how much of an impact the god powers you call "shit" can turn the tide of a match. Ragnarok is one of them.

"Wow cool moments" my butt.

[This message has been edited by Mazeppa (edited 04-21-2021 @ 06:06 AM).]

Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy and General Discussion » The 5 major problems in age of mythology that make it inferior to other AOE2/3 2.9 patch focus
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